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Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
Deozaan:
Hello Deozaan
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Many people find Mr Bottoms's information about freeware products to be not just useless but misleading and sometimes dangerous.
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You may need to forgive Mr Silverstein's passion in these matters but he very much dislikes the damage cocaine causes people and just as you might object to having members of the Ku Klux Klan using DC software forums for their own ends, Mr Silverstein sees Mr Bottoms as equally immoral and undeserving of your hospitality.
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One additional factor is that Ari Silverstein does not find anything to admire in a cocaine smuggler who has caused the loss of life & liberty of other accomplices as well as all the damage street drugs cause.
Franklin2
-Franklin2 (December 14, 2008, 08:38 PM)
--- End quote ---
Franklin,
First of all, thanks for discussing this in a calm, friendly manner. I'm afraid I still have to say that you bring no credibility to the situation. I have no reason to trust anything you say. I have no information that makes me believe that you are a credible authority on the discussion. I am not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that you and I do not have a friendship or any kind of history that I can rely on to trust your words or your judgement on the matter. It also does not help that because of the wonderful technology of the internet, you may even be "Silverstein" posing as someone else. There's no way for me to know if you are or not. To reiterate, I am not implying that you are lying or being deceitful. I am merely stating the fact that I have no way of knowing whether everything is as you say or not.
I, too, find nothing to admire in a drug smuggler or a member of the KKK. But I have yet to find anything to admire about you or Silverstein. How could I? As far as I knew, neither of you even existed until today.
I'm sure that most of us agree that drug smugglers/dealers and the KKK are unpleasant groups of people and that society would be better without them, but it is not my responsibility or desire to keep software I write out of their hands. There are instances where such an attitude may be irresponsible. However, I don't believe that any software provided here at DonationCoder could directly aid the KKK or in the smuggling/dealing of drugs, so why should I care if someone who is a member of the KKK or is a drug smuggler uses DC software? The idea of a programmer getting background checks on everyone who ever uses his software is ludicrous.
Here's a rhetorical question: If everything you ever got in life was based on your strict adherence to morality, would you ever be deserving of anything?
We have had threads here at DonationCoder about unethical and scumbag "companies" that scam people by selling free software or through other "dirtbaggery." There certainly is a place here on these forums for exposing bad deals and bad companies, but Silverstein's inflammatory comments are unwanted and unwelcome. Civil discussion about software is generally what we're all about, though from time to time we do bring up other subjects. But this site is not about defaming and smearing people. Even if it is true, and once again I am not denying that what you and Silverstein have said may be true, the more appropriate method of warning us against the poor software being recommended by Bottoms is to tell us that the software is poor and the recommendations shouldn't be trusted. Going on a diatribe about drug smuggling and assassinations and what-not about people we have never heard of nor do we care about is not going to get you welcomed into the community.
mouser:
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.
40hz:
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.
-mouser (December 14, 2008, 10:55 PM)
--- End quote ---
Very true.
Nevertheless the following does sound like a threat, doesn't it?
I own several companies that use contract coders, all of us are familiar with DC, it's fine reputation. I hate seeing it besmirched by association with slime.
-Silverstein (December 14, 2008, 06:56 PM)
--- End quote ---
I find that statement to be rather interesting. In order for DC to be besmirched, somebody would need to do the besmirching.
Is Silvertein implying that there will be "consequences" for DC because one of its members posted a link and comment about Bear Bottoms Freeware?
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A few thoughts:
First, I think it would be nice if somebody who came in making accusations like Silverstein would give us all a little more background on who he/she is? How about a real name and verifiable e-mail address for openers? Since Silverstein has stated he is a long time poster on ACF under his real name, it would do no harm to post it here.
Second, this is DC - not ACF. If Silvertein wants to provide supporting information to backup comments or allegations, he should provide them in the posting. DC forum readers should not have to go searching ACF or browsing unverifiable web alias URLs to find that information.
Third (last time I checked) this is a country based on laws - not opinions, feelings, or secret knowledge. If Silverstein actually "knows" what Mr. Bottoms did or didn't do, then he should be talking to the relevant authorities, and not flaming about it like an adolescent blogger.
And FWIW, being "thoroughly investigated by the ACF" isn't really relevant. The ACF is not a court, nor is it police agency.
This country has recognized legal mechanisms and agencies for dealing with criminal and civil infractions. These mechanisms are based on law and derive their authority from legislation passed by elected representatives. The agencies that investigate infractions and enforce compliance with said laws, are also bound by the same laws, and subject to regulation and oversight. Anything outside of that is merely vigilantism.
Fourth, it may come as a surprise, but there are laws against defamation.
From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):
Slander per se
The four (4) categories of slander per se are (i) accusing someone of a crime; (ii) alleging that someone has a foul or loathsome disease; (iii) adversely reflecting on a person’s fitness to conduct her business or trade; and (iv) imputing serious sexual misconduct (especially the chastity of a woman). Once again, all you would have to prove is that someone had published the statement to a third party. No proof of special damages is required.
--- End quote ---
I don't know how it works in Louisiana, but up here in Connecticut, most of the statements Silvertein has posted would be considered legally actionable. And in the absence of any criminal or civil convictions against Mr. Bottoms, it wouldn't take long to get a judgment against Silvertein.
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In the end, it all comes down to "put up or shut up" as the saying goes. But considering the seriousness of Silverstein's accusations, DC is hardly the place for that.
Target:
Guys, please heed Deozans advice (don't feed the trolls!!)
There are 2 posters on ACF who are most prolific in their posts against (and about) BearBottoms purported activities and various character flaws and Franklin is one of them. FYI he is permanently killfiled as I have never seen a worthwhile post from him (plenty of trash talk though)
FWIW, I've been a long time lurker in ACF and can't say as I've ever seen a post from Silverstein. I suspect he may go under the nym of Hummingbird (I could be wrong about this, but Hummingbird is the only other poster who so vigorously pursues this line of 'discussion'...)
It's also quite possible that they are one and the same (curious that franklin appears moments after silverstein, literally coming to his defence).
Regardless, can we please not encourage them further with requests to justify themselves in any way as it's quite plain they are only looking for a forum in which to espouse their own views, which have little to do with software
nosh:
Sorry guys, I find it my duty here to back up the KKK claims. Nandana Sen features nowhere in this guy's top 25 most beautiful women.
On the flip side, nice collection of portable links. :up:
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