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Last post Author Topic: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site  (Read 23216 times)

Silverstein

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2008, 07:16:49 PM »
Mouser, I request that you lock this thread. There is absolutely nothing positive that can come from it.

DC is about computer software and related topics. The background of people whose websites are mentioned here is not in our purview. We're usually pretty lenient about being off-topic, but in this case, where can the discussion possibly lead that helps us at all?

(I am not in any way associated with bear bottoms nor Mr. Silverstein)
Considering your interest in government coverups, and the quality of individuals who have worked for them

http://www.thewuestefelds.com/blog/

I find your post to lock hard to imagine.

Target

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2008, 07:21:30 PM »
A quick browse of ACF will list innumerable threads villifying BearBottoms (and many others for that matter)

Not sure what caused the enmity certain ACFers feel about this individual but I've been a long term lurker (several years) and the ACF community seems to have been over run by a new breed of usenetters

Unfortunately it has also ceased (IMHO) to live up to any reputation it might have had as a useful source of freeware (though if your interested in name calling you might find it worth a visit...)


cmpm

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2008, 07:23:43 PM »
This is not about politics or crime.
This is about you Silverstein.

Point out the software or have a can of shutup.

Deozaan

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2008, 07:27:46 PM »
Since no attempt at a logical, friendly discussion is being made by a certain poster in this thread, I think we can all learn something from the signs at the zoo.

Warning: Do not feed the trolls.


Silverstein

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2008, 07:29:09 PM »
Silverstein,

I think one of the main issues here is that you're new here, coming in guns ablaze in an attempt to tell everyone how terrible "Bear" Bottoms is by reviving a 2 year old thread everybody has forgotten about (and my guess is that most people didn't even know about), linking to websites that either result in 404 or are just newsgroup conversations where anybody can say anything (i.e. they have no substance), much like you and I can have this conversation here.

I'm not saying that you're lying, or that "Bear" is a saint. But what's the point in digging up a two year old thread that has been long forgotten, and in such an inflammatory manner?
You're kidding me.

Whether the thread is old, I am new or the moon is setting in the eastern sky is of no consequence to the truth regarding this scoundrel. The OP used "alt.comp.freeware" as a locus, I find this despicable. I will assume even though he is from the very same town of Bear Bottoms that he is unaware of Bottoms, the real Bottoms.

To use ACF in the OP post menas I feel the strong need to disassociate the very good found in ACF with anything Botttoms.

Silverstein

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2008, 07:31:26 PM »
A quick browse of ACF will list innumerable threads villifying BearBottoms (and many others for that matter)

Not sure what caused the enmity certain ACFers feel about this individual but I've been a long term lurker (several years) and the ACF community seems to have been over run by a new breed of usenetters

Unfortunately it has also ceased (IMHO) to live up to any reputation it might have had as a useful source of freeware (though if your interested in name calling you might find it worth a visit...)
I would strongly disagree about useless for freeware. I would strongly agree that the exposure of Bottoms, warranted and deserved, takes an enormous amount of effort. It has been a trade-off of sorts.

cmpm

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2008, 07:40:12 PM »
What art the backgrounds of the rest of these sites?
Or will this be another dodge the question and don't answer deal.




Franklin2

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2008, 08:38:51 PM »
Silverstein,

I think one of the main issues here is that you're new here, coming in guns ablaze in an attempt to tell everyone how terrible "Bear" Bottoms is by reviving a 2 year old thread everybody has forgotten about (and my guess is that most people didn't even know about), linking to websites that either result in 404 or are just newsgroup conversations where anybody can say anything (i.e. they have no substance), much like you and I can have this conversation here.

I'm not saying that you're lying, or that "Bear" is a saint. But what's the point in digging up a two year old thread that has been long forgotten, and in such an inflammatory manner?

Hello Deozaan

I am familiar with the situation Mr Ari Silverstein refers to in alt.comp.freeware. In a nutshell, about two or three years ago a poster called "Bear Bottoms" started posting in some of the Usenet groups to do with security and encryption.  He made enemies extremely quickly on account of his attitude and had to move on to the freeware newsgroup which is where he settled down. 

Mr Bottoms knows little about software but tries to learn a bit.  There's certainly nothing wrong with that.  However readers of alt.comp.freeware have found many of his recommendations to have little foundation even though he had started putting himself up as an authority and recommending software he had allegedly tested.  In some cases it was found he hadn't installed the software, in other cases that he had never downloaded it and in another case that the software was not (and is still not) working yet he had "tested" it thoroughly and given it his strong approval!

Many people find Mr Bottoms's information about freeware products to be not just useless but misleading and sometimes dangerous.  In particular, Mr Bottoms pursued his interest in security and encryption.  It appears this is to do with his notorious real life background as a cocaine smuggler who betrayed more than a few people.  Lives were lost and others did time inside.  So Mr Bottoms became keenly interested in security and encryption as a way of communicating without the knowledge of those who wished to obtain justice from him.

People like Mr Silverstein, who know more than a little about encryption, find Mr Bottoms's security recommendations are weak and the problem is doubled when Mr Bottoms is adamant in recommending very poor software in the face of all the facts to the contrary. 

One additional factor is that Ari Silverstein does not find anything to admire in a cocaine smuggler who has caused the loss of life & liberty of other accomplices as well as all the damage street drugs cause.

You may need to forgive Mr Silverstein's passion in these matters but he very much dislikes the damage cocaine causes people and just as you might object to having members of the Ku Klux Klan using DC software forums for their own ends, Mr Silverstein sees Mr Bottoms as equally immoral and undeserving of your hospitality.

The two year old posting you mention does not age.  I read the rather overdone recommendation for the Bear Bottoms website without even noticing the age of the posting.  To those who haven't seen it before, like myself, it appear as if it were a current matter.

I hope this brings you up to speed on some of the background to the renewed interest in this thread and why Mr Silverstein has taken the trouble to post here.

Thank you for the opportunity to make this posting.

Franklin2

cmpm

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2008, 08:54:53 PM »
Quote
People like Mr Silverstein, who know more than a little about encryption, find Mr Bottoms's security recommendations are weak and the problem is doubled when Mr Bottoms is adamant in recommending very poor software in the face of all the facts to the contrary.

Pardon the interruption of this fine review of Mr. Silverstein.
But this is the only paragraph that applies to this site or perhaps this particular thread called 'General Software'. Which would require POINTING OUT THE SOFTWARE!

If it's not too much trouble. That is what happens here and the complaints about certain bad companies and software distributors have a place also.

There is a thread where you can tell DC about yourself.

And as I said, point out the software or it's really useless as well.

No one here that I know of promotes, likes or distributes illegal drugs. Nor is it my intention to find out through this site.

cmpm

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2008, 08:57:58 PM »
And I think I'll have that can of shutup, I've said all I will on this matter, cya

Deozaan

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2008, 10:12:32 PM »
Hello Deozaan

...

Many people find Mr Bottoms's information about freeware products to be not just useless but misleading and sometimes dangerous.

...

You may need to forgive Mr Silverstein's passion in these matters but he very much dislikes the damage cocaine causes people and just as you might object to having members of the Ku Klux Klan using DC software forums for their own ends, Mr Silverstein sees Mr Bottoms as equally immoral and undeserving of your hospitality.

...

One additional factor is that Ari Silverstein does not find anything to admire in a cocaine smuggler who has caused the loss of life & liberty of other accomplices as well as all the damage street drugs cause.

Franklin2

Franklin,

First of all, thanks for discussing this in a calm, friendly manner. I'm afraid I still have to say that you bring no credibility to the situation. I have no reason to trust anything you say. I have no information that makes me believe that you are a credible authority on the discussion. I am not calling you a liar, I'm just saying that you and I do not have a friendship or any kind of history that I can rely on to trust your words or your judgement on the matter. It also does not help that because of the wonderful technology of the internet, you may even be "Silverstein" posing as someone else. There's no way for me to know if you are or not. To reiterate, I am not implying that you are lying or being deceitful. I am merely stating the fact that I have no way of knowing whether everything is as you say or not.

I, too, find nothing to admire in a drug smuggler or a member of the KKK. But I have yet to find anything to admire about you or Silverstein. How could I? As far as I knew, neither of you even existed until today.

I'm sure that most of us agree that drug smugglers/dealers and the KKK are unpleasant groups of people and that society would be better without them, but it is not my responsibility or desire to keep software I write out of their hands. There are instances where such an attitude may be irresponsible. However, I don't believe that any software provided here at DonationCoder could directly aid the KKK or in the smuggling/dealing of drugs, so why should I care if someone who is a member of the KKK or is a drug smuggler uses DC software? The idea of a programmer getting background checks on everyone who ever uses his software is ludicrous.

Here's a rhetorical question: If everything you ever got in life was based on your strict adherence to morality, would you ever be deserving of anything?

We have had threads here at DonationCoder about unethical and scumbag "companies" that scam people by selling free software or through other "dirtbaggery." There certainly is a place here on these forums for exposing bad deals and bad companies, but Silverstein's inflammatory comments are unwanted and unwelcome. Civil discussion about software is generally what we're all about, though from time to time we do bring up other subjects. But this site is not about defaming and smearing people. Even if it is true, and once again I am not denying that what you and Silverstein have said may be true, the more appropriate method of warning us against the poor software being recommended by Bottoms is to tell us that the software is poor and the recommendations shouldn't be trusted. Going on a diatribe about drug smuggling and assassinations and what-not about people we have never heard of nor do we care about is not going to get you welcomed into the community.


mouser

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2008, 10:55:13 PM »
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.

40hz

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2008, 12:11:48 AM »
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.

Very true.

Nevertheless the following does sound like a threat, doesn't it?

I own several companies that use contract coders, all of us are familiar with DC, it's fine reputation. I hate seeing it besmirched by association with slime.

I find that statement to be rather interesting. In order for DC to be besmirched, somebody would need to do the besmirching.

Is Silvertein implying that there will be "consequences" for DC because one of its members posted a link and comment about Bear Bottoms Freeware?

--------

A few thoughts:

First, I think it would be nice if somebody who came in making accusations like Silverstein would give us all a little more background on who he/she is? How about a real name and verifiable e-mail address for openers? Since Silverstein has stated he is a long time poster on ACF under his real name, it would do no harm to post it here.

Second, this is DC - not ACF. If Silvertein wants to provide supporting information to backup comments or allegations, he should provide them in the posting.  DC forum readers should not have to go searching ACF or browsing unverifiable web alias URLs to find that information.

Third (last time I checked) this is a country based on laws - not opinions, feelings, or secret knowledge. If Silverstein actually "knows" what Mr. Bottoms did or didn't do, then he should be talking to the relevant authorities, and not flaming about it like an adolescent blogger.

And FWIW, being "thoroughly investigated by the ACF" isn't really relevant. The ACF is not a court, nor is it police agency.

This country has recognized legal mechanisms and agencies for dealing with criminal and civil infractions. These mechanisms are based on law and derive their authority from legislation passed by elected representatives. The agencies that investigate infractions and enforce compliance with said laws, are also bound by the same laws, and subject to regulation and oversight. Anything outside of that is merely vigilantism.

Fourth, it may come as a surprise, but there are laws against defamation.

From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

Quote
Slander per se

The four (4) categories of slander per se are (i) accusing someone of a crime; (ii) alleging that someone has a foul or loathsome disease; (iii) adversely reflecting on a person’s fitness to conduct her business or trade; and (iv) imputing serious sexual misconduct (especially the chastity of a woman). Once again, all you would have to prove is that someone had published the statement to a third party. No proof of special damages is required.

I don't know how it works in Louisiana, but up here in Connecticut, most of the statements Silvertein has posted would be considered legally actionable. And in the absence of any criminal or civil convictions against Mr. Bottoms, it wouldn't take long to get a judgment against Silvertein.

--------

In the end,  it all comes down to "put up or shut up" as the saying goes. But considering the seriousness of Silverstein's accusations, DC is hardly the place for that.



Target

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2008, 12:32:29 AM »
Guys, please heed Deozans advice (don't feed the trolls!!)

There are 2 posters on ACF who are most prolific in their posts against (and about) BearBottoms purported activities and various character flaws and Franklin is one of them.  FYI he is permanently killfiled as I have never seen a worthwhile post from him (plenty of trash talk though)

FWIW, I've been a long time lurker in ACF and can't say as I've ever seen a post from Silverstein.  I suspect he may go under the nym of Hummingbird (I could be wrong about this, but Hummingbird is the only other poster who so vigorously pursues this line of 'discussion'...)

It's also quite possible that they are one and the same (curious that franklin appears moments after silverstein, literally coming to his defence).

Regardless, can we please not encourage them further with requests to justify themselves in any way as it's quite plain they are only looking for a forum in which to espouse their own views, which have little to do with software
 

nosh

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2008, 03:02:47 AM »
Sorry guys, I find it my duty here to back up the KKK claims. Nandana Sen features nowhere in this guy's top 25 most beautiful women.

On the flip side, nice collection of portable links.  :up:

Franklin2

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2008, 05:06:55 AM »
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.

Very true.  Nevertheless the following does sound like a threat, doesn't it?

I own several companies that use contract coders, all of us are familiar with DC, it's fine reputation. I hate seeing it besmirched by association with slime.

I find that statement to be rather interesting. In order for DC to be besmirched, somebody would need to do the besmirching.

etc



Hello 40hz.  I have read the statement which you refer to in a very different way than you have done.

(a) You've seen it as a threat and inferred that it means DC will be besmirched.

(b) I read it as saying DC has been besmirched on account of carrying postings eulogising the web site of a cocaine smuggler like Bear Bottoms and his flakey freeware recommendations.

Mr Silverstein appears to say DC is known to many of his associates as a fine site and he hates to see DC's image become reduced on account of posts like the ones at the start of this thread.  I don't see any threat in that at all.  Maybe Ari's passion about these matters has led you to feel you're under attack but I don't think it is like that at all.

Hope you see what I mean.

regards
Franklin

Franklin2

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2008, 05:43:41 AM »
Guys, please heed Deozans advice (don't feed the trolls!!)

There are 2 posters on ACF who are most prolific in their posts against (and about) BearBottoms purported activities and various character flaws and Franklin is one of them.  FYI he is permanently killfiled as I have never seen a worthwhile post from him (plenty of trash talk though)

FWIW, I've been a long time lurker in ACF and can't say as I've ever seen a post from Silverstein. 

Hello Target. 

Your suggestion to be a long time lurker in alt.comp.freeware strikes me as a little unexpected because Ari Silverstein has made very many posts and they are typically unmissable.  Google Groups lists over 1,000 posts by him to that newsgroup using just one of his email addresses.

Your hostility towards me is, I would guess, likely to be based on some historic observation you made long ago because other comments in your posting don't really suggest you have been a regular lurker in alt.comp.freeware.  I have made very many posts there about freeware and a search of Google Groups shows that.  Of course there are many posts there by me which are not to do with freeware and it may be those which you find have distracted you from your wish to read only about freeware.

I don't seek to make a personal attack on you and I suggest it's probably not useful to use the hospitality extended by DC forums to make unsubstantiated personal attacks on people like myself.  Let's stick to the facts and let's stick to software. 

It is the flaky and misleading software recommendations Bear Bottoms makes in alt.comp.freeware which have led a number of individuals there to consider the recommendations on his freeware site to be unreliable.  Posters have said exactly that as Google will confirm. 

Mr Bottoms happens to be keenly supported by a few posters such as Hummingbird and Me.Here (along with their sockpuppets) because they share his wish to take over the Pricelessware freeware web site and to ban discussion of Pricelessware recommendations from alt.comp.freeware.  I think you will find the vast majority of posters to alt.comp.freeware would consider the prospect of Mr Bottoms running Pricelessware or determining what is  posted to alt.comp.freeware to be a distasteful one.

I hope that helps get things back on topic and in perspective.

regards
Franklin

CWuestefeld

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2008, 06:16:50 AM »
Considering your interest in government coverups, and the quality of individuals who have worked for them

http://www.thewuestefelds.com/blog/

I find your post to lock hard to imagine.

Which underscores the fact that your argument has nothing to do with the topic of this board, computer software, but is a personal vendetta. My personal blog is my personal stage, where I can say what I want, having no bearing on my discussion here and elsewhere.

I suggest that (a) you do the same without invading others' communities, and (b) leave peoples' personal lives out of this while you're here, and focus on the topic at hand. You're likely to encounter much less animosity.

It is the flaky and misleading software recommendations Bear Bottoms makes in alt.comp.freeware which have led a number of individuals there to consider the recommendations on his freeware site to be unreliable.

With all due respect, that is not the argument that was brought here. That was
Quote
you will know about William "Bear Bottoms" and his cocaine smuggling background, the murder of his BIL Barry Seals.

Which has no bearing on software, and as 40hz has suggested, is a topic better handled by the authorities.

If Silverstein's post said "this is a crappy site, the recommendations are bad", then you would have been greeted with intelligent discussion and perhaps agreement.

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2008, 06:21:14 AM »
Only request I would have is that he implement a "What's New" or "New Additions" page for easier perusal. 

As for the rest of it.  Let this Bear guy come speak for himself.

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 06:27:26 AM by y0himba »

CWuestefeld

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2008, 06:54:56 AM »
It's nothing new for even the computer software greats to engage in socially-unacceptable behavior. The great Alan Turing was arrested for his then-illegal sexual proclivities, and later killed himself because he couldn't stand to bear his deviance. That in no way detracts from the awesome contributions that he made to the field of computing, and indeed to mankind as a whole.

I point this out not to absolve anyone of anything. It's to show that one's personal life is entirely distinct from the contributions one makes. Go ahead and crucify Turing and anyone else whose behavior you disdain, but do it elsewhere. The topic of discussion here is computer software.

cranioscopical

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2008, 08:01:55 AM »
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.

Very true.

Nevertheless...

Come on chaps, let go of it!

So,  how about those Rays?  Good on the ice, or what!


Josh

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2008, 08:15:27 AM »
Yes, let's all listen to cranioscopical

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2008, 09:20:21 AM »
People are getting pretty antagonistic on this thread -- can i remind the DC regulars that the way we demonstrate tolerance and good manors here, is by acting respectful and showing by example how we expect people to behave, not by going on attack.

Very true.

Nevertheless the following does sound like a threat, doesn't it?
Those like me who have Googled "Bear Bottoms' to find the truth of who he is will be directed here. If the association with an admitted drug thugger is an acceptable one to you, then so be that association, and its consequences, as they lay on your head.

Let's not stop there. Not only is William "Bear Bottoms" a self-confessed criminal, he is also part of a vicious, massive US Governement conspiracy. I speak of Iran-Contra.

Bottoms not only drug-infested our country, he was directly responsible for the smuggling of weapons and of illegal cash payments. Oliver North and Rear Admiral John Poindexter were both, as others, convicted and sentenced for these crimes which have been dubbed by the press as Iran Contra. For those who do not know...

http://www.pbs.org/w...eevents/pande08.html

Millions of dollars for weaponry, directly funded by the contributions of William "Bear" Bottoms by his own admissions. Keen guy, eh?

I own several companies that use contract coders, all of us are familiar with DC, it's fine reputation. I hate seeing it besmirched by association with slime.

Quote
I find that statement to be rather interesting. In order for DC to be besmirched, somebody would need to do the besmirching.

Is Silvertein implying that there will be "consequences" for DC because one of its members posted a link and comment about Bear Bottoms Freeware?
Asked and answered.

--------

Quote
A few thoughts:

First, I think it would be nice if somebody who came in making accusations like Silverstein would give us all a little more background on who he/she is? How about a real name and verifiable e-mail address for openers? Since Silverstein has stated he is a long time poster on ACF under his real name, it would do no harm to post it here.
Answered.

Quote
Second, this is DC - not ACF. If Silvertein wants to provide supporting information to backup comments or allegations, he should provide them in the posting.  DC forum readers should not have to go searching ACF or browsing unverifiable web alias URLs to find that information.
Done, several times.

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Third (last time I checked) this is a country based on laws - not opinions, feelings, or secret knowledge. If Silverstein actually "knows" what Mr. Bottoms did or didn't do, then he should be talking to the relevant authorities, and not flaming about it like an adolescent blogger.
This country is based on laws, opinions, facts and, in Bear Bottoms case, his self-admission to criminality. I don't need anymore than that, you may wish more, that is your decision, you have mine.

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And FWIW, being "thoroughly investigated by the ACF" isn't really relevant. The ACF is not a court, nor is it police agency.
It is highly relevant, are you not doing the same here? Making dispersions and calling into question my large amount of evidences? Of course you are as is your right...to be wrong, in this case.
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This country has recognized legal mechanisms and agencies for dealing with criminal and civil infractions. These mechanisms are based on law and derive their authority from legislation passed by elected representatives. The agencies that investigate infractions and enforce compliance with said laws, are also bound by the same laws, and subject to regulation and oversight. Anything outside of that is merely vigilantism.
Bollocks. I have no idea what world you live in but it has little to do with legal realities. I would have thought the recent spate of GOP and Donkey Presidents would have driven that kernel of untruth from any reasonably informed and thinking persons mind.

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Fourth, it may come as a surprise, but there are laws against defamation.
Correct, if I am inaccurate, then Bottoms can have his day in court. if not, then he has nothing to do but hand his head in his self-admitted isgrace.

From Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

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Slander per se

The four (4) categories of slander per se are (i) accusing someone of a crime; (ii) alleging that someone has a foul or loathsome disease; (iii) adversely reflecting on a person’s fitness to conduct her business or trade; and (iv) imputing serious sexual misconduct (especially the chastity of a woman). Once again, all you would have to prove is that someone had published the statement to a third party. No proof of special damages is required.

I don't know how it works in Louisiana, but up here in Connecticut, most of the statements Silvertein has posted would be considered legally actionable. And in the absence of any criminal or civil convictions against Mr. Bottoms, it wouldn't take long to get a judgment against Silvertein.
Again, correct.

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In the end,  it all comes down to "put up or shut up" as the saying goes. But considering the seriousness of Silverstein's accusations, DC is hardly the place for that.
Would you have preferred that this fine forum be continually associated with such as Bear Bottoms? Why? Is DC not better off having this openly discussed as you have done at such great length?You spared no space in defaming me, did you? Why is it that of the sides you have chosen you choose to defend a self-admitted cocaine smuggler. Why? I have to ask, why?

I have answered all your questions, met you squarely, I ask that you now answer mine.

P.S. Libel and slander are legal claims for false statements of fact about a person that are printed, broadcast, spoken or otherwise communicated to others. Libel generally refers to statements or visual depictions in written or other permanent form, while slander refers to verbal statements and gestures. In Lousiana or Conneticut.

Silverstein

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2008, 09:24:47 AM »
It's nothing new for even the computer software greats to engage in socially-unacceptable behavior. The great Alan Turing was arrested for his then-illegal sexual proclivities, and later killed himself because he couldn't stand to bear his deviance. That in no way detracts from the awesome contributions that he made to the field of computing, and indeed to mankind as a whole.
Are you intimating that Bear Bottoms is even remotely on the equal level of Turing?

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I point this out not to absolve anyone of anything. It's to show that one's personal life is entirely distinct from the contributions one makes. Go ahead and crucify Turing and anyone else whose behavior you disdain, but do it elsewhere. The topic of discussion here is computer software.
Then please, take your own advice.

I believe the topic of discussion is twofold. Does DC support the orignal posters contentions regarding the quality of Bear Bottoms website? Does DC do so in light of all evidences that DC, and I wll assume the OP, have been sorrily mislead?

Over to you.

Silverstein

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Re: Bear Bottoms Freeware: A very nice high-quality software site
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2008, 09:27:03 AM »
Only request I would have is that he implement a "What's New" or "New Additions" page for easier perusal. 

As for the rest of it.  Let this Bear guy come speak for himself.
y0himba, that is an excellent idea. I will have a post made requesting he do exactly that and will return with the link to assure the same.