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Author Topic: Going to try google adsense on the pages for 1 week  (Read 8043 times)
mouser
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« on: October 29, 2006, 02:33:33 PM »

As you know we removed google ads many months ago -
out of curiosity i'd like to restore them back the way they were for 7 days, if no one objects strongly, as an experiment.
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jgpaiva
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 03:18:06 PM »

I support this idea. If it's going to help DC, i'm all for it.
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mouser
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 03:30:37 PM »

it's more out of curiosity than anything else - i'm definitely not saying the ads are coming back for more than a week.  just thought it would be worth putting them back up for a week to remind ourselves what they were like and see if the ads get more or less clicks than they did before.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 03:44:25 PM »

I don't feel that I even have the right to object and I don't anyway.  I'm more concerned with the possible perception created. Given Google's recent propensity for attracting unwelcome press, the juxtaposition of Google and Ad on a site that emphasizes no advertising of mentioned products seems... out of keeping with the stated principles.
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Chris
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2006, 03:55:41 PM »

it's true it does have the possibility to blur the line in a bad way.  we don't have control over who advertises with google ads, so it's not like we take ads from certain companies or promote software to get an ad contract, but it's still a bit odd.  the really odd part of course is that on all of our software pages are ads for competing shareware programs  tongue
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mouser
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2006, 04:22:22 PM »

ps my general feeling is to not have any ads on the site unless the money lost from not having them is truly dramatic.  when we took them off the site we lost $5-$8 per day of revenue.  that is not chicken feed for this site, that's a significant amount.  but removing the ads was a very nice feeling and i think the pride and dignity of not having ads (and not feeling like we were suckers putting stuff on our site that we don't necesarily approve of), was worth that loss.  but we try to be practical here, and if we go to the point for example that the ad money was bringing in, for example $100 a day, then it might mean we should focus less on donations and more on giving software away and less on asking for donations.  though i have to say that i think being funded by donations has made a serious difference in the way this site operates, and shifting to an ad funded model would cause real harm to that, so i'm not expecting to go down that road.  but i just think we should stick to our willingness to not be afraid to experiment, explore different possibilities, etc.  at least it keeps life interesting.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2006, 06:30:17 PM »

I take your point about being unable to replace $100/day.

At $8 is it unfeasible to get 365 people each to donate $8 extra, annually?
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Chris
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 06:38:48 PM »

i think that was my point chris - i think we'd rather lose $10-$15 a day and have the pride and respect that comes with not having adverts.

i was just saying that if we ever get to the point where some tasefully small subtle ads would bring in $100/day, well that's a lot of money that could fund a lot of stuff (for example it would mean less begging for people to donate to reviewers if they could get the advert money from the review pages, etc), and we'd have to think hard before giving up $100/day in ads that would be impossible to make up from donations.
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nudone
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 03:37:16 AM »

rather than taking google's adds, how about taking sponsors or adds from companies that sell products that DC does approve of - just on a trial run, of course.

i know it is almost anathema to think in such a way but an add is an add after all - is there anything special about using google's adds over a company we respect?
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mouser
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 04:51:02 AM »

the main advantages of google (or similar service) is simplicity.  no contracts, no hfinding advertisers, etc.  you end up with ads that usually have something to do with the content on the page automatically.  you'd expect to make more from a negotiated ad contract, but it would be a *lot* more work.

as chris brought up - maybe we should think about this whole ad thing some more because one of the things we don't want to happen is to give people the impression that our reviews and recommendations are biased in order to favor people that we might have ad contracts with.

that's what's so nice about having normal users fund our site - it means there is no split loyalty or appearance of favouritism or motivation to do anything but please the members of the site, and i quite like that.

but if we put our heads together we might be able to come up with something different and unusual that could work and still be respectable..
« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 04:55:35 AM by mouser » Logged
Gothi[c]
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2006, 08:01:19 PM »

I don't think putting anything Google on the site is a good idea.... especially not after reading this:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4774
http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/11/01/199212.shtml

Call me paranoid, but it just confirms what I always suspected. :p


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CodeTRUCKER
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 10:51:42 PM »

I have to agree with Gothi[c].  I just can't feel warm and fuzzy about this move, but that is your call.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 03:09:08 PM by CodeTRUCKER » Logged

I applaud those that refuse to commit "intellectual suicide."

Truth, unlike opinion, tradition, etc. will always be able to stand on its own.  Truth is not a static, but a living entity and will perpetually impart life; therefore, any "truth" that does not or can not impart life can not be Truth.

I am persuaded the only reason bad men have succeeded is not because good men have done nothing, but that good men did not do enough.

An Open Letter to My Friends


Notice: - Unless stated otherwise, I receive no compensation for anything I post here.
mouser
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2006, 04:00:46 AM »

Well, we are going to try the google adsense (or some other ad thing) again soon, if only as an experiment, so prepare for the mental shock to the system smiley

I'm suspicious of all giant corporations, but not in terms of them selling private information about us (it's hard to think of a big corp least likely or willing to need to do that than google, in google's defense).  i just think all of these businesses have one goal to maximize their profits, and if that means there is financial gain in manipulating information and engaging in monoplostic practices they will do so.  If for the time being it makes them more money to play the good guy they will do so.  when it becomes more profitable to look the other way they will do so.. just my 2 cents.
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CodeTRUCKER
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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2006, 05:42:10 AM »

I have some real issues with Big G, especially when they require the freedom to whatever they deem as appropriate (read the TOS).  Lord Acton recognized, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  I have genuine concerns about "G"s lack of limits in requiring a free reign.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 01:55:48 PM by CodeTRUCKER » Logged

I applaud those that refuse to commit "intellectual suicide."

Truth, unlike opinion, tradition, etc. will always be able to stand on its own.  Truth is not a static, but a living entity and will perpetually impart life; therefore, any "truth" that does not or can not impart life can not be Truth.

I am persuaded the only reason bad men have succeeded is not because good men have done nothing, but that good men did not do enough.

An Open Letter to My Friends


Notice: - Unless stated otherwise, I receive no compensation for anything I post here.
mouser
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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2006, 06:03:05 AM »

I appreciate your comments and hope you will keep sharing them.  I suspect you are at one end of the spectrum, and there are people at all ends.  Many other people seem to not mnd the ads and prefer them to having to make a donations.

This site has always been about trying to be reasonable and figure out a way to make a little bit of money, enough to keep working on these projects, and still keeping with core principles (see my article here: http://www.donationcoder....m/Articles/One/index.html).

I'm not about to allow this site to become some evil site whose only objective is to grab as much money as possible as fast as possible.  The goal of this site is not to get rich; never has been, never will be.  But at the same time this site was created specifically because I was spending so much time coding that I either had to stop or figure out a way to ask for a little bit of money to support my coding addiction so I wouldn't become homeless.

To tell the truth I would much rather just write free open source software if I could do so in same spirit, and not have to worry about paying rent.  I envy those people in this world who have enough money that they can spend their time just working on stuff they enjoy and not have to ask for money for it.  But it is what it is, so i'm trying to walk a middle roard and help along with others to make a home for those like minded people who think it's something worth supporting.

Personally, I don't like these ad things.  I'd rather not run them.  On the other hand, I don't find them evil and i think the way we had them in the sidebars is not so bad.  I'd even go so far as to say that sometimes the context-sensitive ads could be fun and relevant, especially when we had them in the posts since they would sometimes suggest useful links.

I do find something about them troubling though - in that i don't like the idea of giving up control of what gets shown on our pages, and i don't like the idea of being a middle man advertising other people's stuff when i might not think it's worth while.  It might be nicer if we got to choose what ads were displayed.. But then that raises the whole issue of whether the content of our site gets called into question because it would seem we might have a reason to say good things about advertisers.

I do happen to believe that this stuff is a corrupting influence when you start getting into big money.  People just don't tend to say bad things about someone who is bankrolling them..

Anyway, i still think it's useful to experiment with things and consider different options, and i think we shouldn't be afraid to try things.  When we do try it again, I hope you'll stick around long enough to help us make the decision about whether to keep them.

And let me say this also - this site is now a community site.  We won't be making any decisions that go against the clear will of the active people on this forum.  If you guys+gals say you don't want a certain thing or change, then we won't do it, and we will find a different way.
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mouser
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2006, 06:08:00 AM »

farmsteader, one more thing:
you are a supporting member of this site.
the way we have it set up, supporting members by default never see any of the ads.  they are only shown to non-supporting members.  does that affect your views at all?
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urlwolf
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2006, 06:44:35 AM »

Mouser,

I'd say go for it. It looks like community sites will be all the craze in 2007. This site contains excellent content; it'd be stupid not to make enough money to pay rent while offering good content, while others pocket a lot of money for similar ideas but implemented in a 'me too' way. Also, the new cash could make for new features that benefit all the posters; it may help you think bigger.

Just my 2c.
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CodeTRUCKER
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2006, 08:09:34 AM »

farmsteader, one more thing:
you are a supporting member of this site.
the way we have it set up, supporting members by default never see any of the ads.  they are only shown to non-supporting members.  does that affect your views at all?

It would be appreciated, but it doesn't solve the problem.  On the other hand, I understand revenue is needed.  I appreciate your position, but I don't envy it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 02:18:52 AM by CodeTRUCKER » Logged

I applaud those that refuse to commit "intellectual suicide."

Truth, unlike opinion, tradition, etc. will always be able to stand on its own.  Truth is not a static, but a living entity and will perpetually impart life; therefore, any "truth" that does not or can not impart life can not be Truth.

I am persuaded the only reason bad men have succeeded is not because good men have done nothing, but that good men did not do enough.

An Open Letter to My Friends


Notice: - Unless stated otherwise, I receive no compensation for anything I post here.
CodeTRUCKER
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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2006, 08:26:08 AM »

Mouser,

I'd say go for it. It looks like community sites will be all the craze in 2007. This site contains excellent content; it'd be stupid not to make enough money to pay rent while offering good content, while others pocket a lot of money for similar ideas but implemented in a 'me too' way. Also, the new cash could make for new features that benefit all the posters; it may help you think bigger.

Just my 2c.

Good arguments.  Man, this is a thorny problem.  My biggest problem is not that DC can use the money and that it would create growth revenue as urlwolf so eloquently cited.  Unfortunately, this need/opportunity does not nullify the reasons for my concern, in the first place.  The fact is the entity of Big "G" is an informational gathering entity.  Information is knowledge and knowledge is power.  Therefore, Google is power.  The question is "how" will that power be used?  I have gathered some data that is not very comforting.  Imagine "how" Hitler, etc. would have used such data?   Frankly, I am not sure I could remain associated with DC if Google was to be adopted.  I certainly have no right to tell Mouser what to do, but I feel it is a courtesy to him to let him know when I don't like something.  How else would he know?  
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 02:44:14 AM by CodeTRUCKER » Logged

I applaud those that refuse to commit "intellectual suicide."

Truth, unlike opinion, tradition, etc. will always be able to stand on its own.  Truth is not a static, but a living entity and will perpetually impart life; therefore, any "truth" that does not or can not impart life can not be Truth.

I am persuaded the only reason bad men have succeeded is not because good men have done nothing, but that good men did not do enough.

An Open Letter to My Friends


Notice: - Unless stated otherwise, I receive no compensation for anything I post here.
dk70
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2006, 12:05:02 AM »

Yeah if we cant see evil it must be invisible. You really are something. Im looking forward to your data, I assume they are of such a nature they cannot yet be revealed right?  cheesy But think of the children being manipulated every day! You must lead them and us towards the light, guide us away from evil. How can you hold back lifesaving information?

Ever heard of adblocking Farmsteader? You dont have to submit to Googles analysis of your where abouts, like they cared. Block the scripts and ads. Does not make you invisible and definitely not invulnerable but you will feel better being Google-free. Why dont you just block google.com in general? They can live without you. Will you also leave if DC use Yahoo Ads or other? How does it make a difference? Why are you so sure you are not already being "watched" by hidden bots and what not? Are you not scared Mouser is an agent from Google, using his forum for detailed profiling of people? Google have every reason to get those data from you dont you think? Duck is all I will say.

As with everything else regarding Google having ads or not is a matter of money. If site somehow benefits I think it is wrong not to have them. Im not going to look at any but more money/power to site = possible new features for selfish me. I think the only way people find text ads intrusive is when placed wrongly. Some forums even put them in threads, between posts. Smells so much of milking the cow some reject, I know I do. If done elegantly DC could possibly even get away with ad-banners but a bigger move. This is not some stupid blog trying to attract stupid traffic from other stupid sites or there would not be any reflexion about to do or not. Ads can be "justified" even if not regarded as a fantastic new feature of site. Anyone upset can avoid them easy. So if monetary benefits ad away.
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CodeTRUCKER
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2006, 12:43:22 AM »

It really bothers me when I see someone who wants to just bury his head in the sand and ignore the reality of the true lessons of history.  I have offered you to explore for yourself.  The problem is venting your own opinions without considering how someone less knowledgeable and dependent on others.  I have found my data on the subject and you would not accept what I copied here, so why should I bother?  It's there for anyone.  Get out your shovel and go to work.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 02:52:02 AM by CodeTRUCKER » Logged

I applaud those that refuse to commit "intellectual suicide."

Truth, unlike opinion, tradition, etc. will always be able to stand on its own.  Truth is not a static, but a living entity and will perpetually impart life; therefore, any "truth" that does not or can not impart life can not be Truth.

I am persuaded the only reason bad men have succeeded is not because good men have done nothing, but that good men did not do enough.

An Open Letter to My Friends


Notice: - Unless stated otherwise, I receive no compensation for anything I post here.
dk70
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2006, 04:19:24 AM »

Why? I find it interesting Ive waited so long for answers to my questions and insight into your promised data! May be I have to track you down?

Mouser is a nice guy it seems so he only go evil unless "no one objects strongly" which you do, not making sense but clearly objecting. Would be sad if he feel a need to take such considerations as childish threats of living. I dont think he does but just in case... Also as an affiliate of Google Im forced to reply. Dont forget Googles hidden code is everywhere since long so any negativity triggers alerts which true believers like me can sign up for. Some of us humans have joined the machine.
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mouser
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2006, 04:33:12 AM »

ok play nice everyone.
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