DonationCoder.com Software > The Getting Organized Experiment of 2006

i'd like to buy some discipline please.

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nudone:
i agree. this is how i've done most things, well, maybe not most things - just the tasks that i felt had something at stake, i.e. pride. Forster does have good advice on it and, if i remember correctly, there is even better advice in 'The Now Habit' by Neil Fiore - he really does get to the psychological roots of the problem (but as he's quoting from many sources i'm sure there are numerous other books with the same advice).

somehow we have learnt that it is 'good' to live day-to-day trying to ignore the dreaded task/project. like trying to maximise you enjoyment whilst you can and over the longest period you can maintain - and yet knowing full well that you are going to suffer when you finally must get the deed done.

i think this is due to our innate programming (okay, maybe not everyone). we have an absolutely terrible comprehension of time and what the future means - one month from now may as well be several lifetimes away. my primitive brain (Forsters nice idea) really doesn't understand the future - i'm not that convinced my rational brain understands the future either. which inevitably means that i can happily convince myself that at some point, days, months, years from now, i'll be able to behave in a completely unnatural manner and become super motivated and get the job done - either that or i just believe the task won't need doing as it will have magical disintegrated.

i'm a fan of evolutionary psychology and i like to think that we might find help if we looked at why we behave in the way we do regarding procrastination. i suspect our ancestors learnt it was the best way of survival - leave things until someone else does them or they simply no longer require doing. unfortunately, the modern world isn't built around the same lists of jobs to do as back then.

we are perhaps unique in that we have become animals of the future; we focus a great deal of our energy and life on what will hopefully happen without having the understanding of how to make the present become that future wish. if anything, our understanding of the passage of time is completely stunted. we can comprehend that tomorrow will arrive automatically without any intervention from ourselves - the problem is that we confuse this inevitability with our own plans and goals, believing they will come to life automatically too.

Paul Keith:
This is old and too short to be useful but I thought I'd add this as a footnote for the future GOE if it ever happens:

Personally I feel that the "you need self-discipline to do this system" has always been a flaw of the actual system. I find that the actual effective parts of systems don't require self-discipline at all and the ones that do, you can be trained at a work or school for that and self-discipline is actually more counter-productive except for someone who does buy into that concept and hence their motivation can be found in achieving that concept rather than on being self-disciplined.

Btw to answer the topic, I would say to look for it in other people. If you can't find it in your current environment, chances are your surroundings suck. (No offense to the people you know.) It's the whole "you need a purpose" thing all over again. Self-discipline doesn't help you define a purpose. Productivity systems does. So if you rationalize that self-discipline is required to adapt a system then the specific system is flawed right then and there for asking you to be productive rather than making you productive. It's like a person selling you a gold ferrarri but only if you can find oil in the Sahara desert first. Sorry, no deal.

nudone:
if anyone still listens: i don't believe in any of the 'systems' now. i don't believe in 'discipline'. don't believe in 'self-motivation'.

i may have discussed this with mouser a long time ago, maybe on the forum, can't remember now: but i think a lot of the people striving to become more in 'control' are actually depressed - maybe a lot, maybe a little.

from personal experience, it just seems it's sometimes difficult to spot whether you are just looking for a better 'system', or are totally overwhelmed by what you 'feel' you need to do. anyone falling into the 'depressed' category is searching for that panacea, that super GOE like system that will change their life. it won't. maybe it will for a short period - just like any novelty change to one's lifestyle will work for a month or two.

if you are moderately on top of your situation and work load you can mix and match 'systems' to your hearts content. have fun with them, compare them, pretend that one is better than another.

if you find that no system will work for you (i really believe they are all the same) you probably need to ask yourself if your inability to get things done is an indication you have more serious troubles to resolve, i.e. you're depressed/stressed.

i'm now going to shut up because i'll start talking (even more) rubbish.

bottom line: all these systems are games to be played. games are difficult to play when you feel genuinely overwhelmed by the workload in front of you (or the problems that seem outside of your power to control).

MilesAhead:
There was a philosopher so great I can't remember his name.  But I'll never forget what he said: "Sometimes I get the urge to start a new project, exercise, or accomplish something constructive.  Whenever I get that urge I lie down until the feeling goes away."

 :Thmbsup:

mouser:
Nudone,

I might not disagree with the main point you are trying to make.. but i think one could also argue it in this way:

There is no magic "system" that is going to fix you and make you more organized.  Your problems may have deeper causes.
And maybe there is nothing that much better about one system over another.
But it's possible that in a search and exploration of new systems you might discover some deeper issues or leave yourself open to learning something about yourself that helps.

At least that's a more positive take on the search for an organizational system that suits you.

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