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Author Topic: What is the Great DonationCoder.com GTD Experiment of 2006?  (Read 35393 times)
esiiteri
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« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2006, 02:01:20 PM »

I'm in, what is our NA?
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Mentat
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« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2006, 04:00:15 AM »

I'm usinf GTD since many years, but try to consolidate my system with PC's PDA's Papers Places ... So I'm in too ... to share and read all experiences and softwares testing   smiley

PS: I'll buy MLO, when I read the wonderful post of GTD softwares by m_s  Thmbsup
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urlwolf
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« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2006, 04:34:18 AM »

Just a quick question... how many of us are using MLO? If we are quite a few, maybe a special thread with tips and tricks here would help.

If you are not using it, and plan to join the GTD experiment, this is a good time to give it a try. It really is a fantastic application.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2006, 05:02:01 AM »

A big question that many may have is: How easy it is to implement GTD and stick to it?


Also, how many people here have tried GTD and fallen off the wagon one way or another?

I know I have. For a start, the GTD book is dense, and not a good read. Second, the system can be implemented in so many ways that it takes a lot of effort to find the right one for you. Third, it is complicated!

There is even an entire category of post in 43folders for people who have dropped GTD and are trying to be back smiley

I mean, I don't doubt it works, but... it has to be learned and practiced. It's like playing an instrument.

On the other hand, I found the advice by Mark Forster (Get Everything Done, GED) easy to implement. really easy in comparison.

Check the reviews:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/g...customer-reviews.start=21

http://www.amazon.co.uk/g...&s=books&v=glance

And it complements GTD fairy well...
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nudone
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« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2006, 05:45:09 AM »

I'm in, what is our NA?

what does NA mean?
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urlwolf
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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2006, 05:55:48 AM »

just an example of how GED works: it advocated closed lists, not todo lists. The problem with todo lists is that they grow and grow, and for any item crossed you manage to add two. The solution proposed is to have closed lists:

To Do Lists -- How we hate them!
http://www.markforster.net/index.php?view=46

PS: I'm in no way related to this site, just found the two books really good and easy compared to my struggling with GTD...
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urlwolf
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« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2006, 05:55:59 AM »

NA = next action
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nudone
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« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2006, 06:00:23 AM »

the books you recommend by Mark Foster look interesting, urlwolf. the only problem is that the thought of reading two books before i get anything done is already frustrating me - this might just be the mood i'm in today.

i'll think about ordering them in a few minutes - or maybe i'll just go and bang my head against a wall for a bit - and then order the books.

by the end of all this i really hope we have found a ridiculously simple way of getting things done.
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nudone
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« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2006, 06:19:08 AM »

urlwolf, i think you have revealed a very valuable source with Mark Forster. i have to agree with his anti to-do list theory. i'd say that's exactly why i don't use 'mylife organized' - or maybe i'm just not organized enough to actually use the program.

i'd been thinking for some time that with all the best intentions that you might have, there are still going to be times when you just cannot, or just will not, do the task you were expected to do. and there are times when you would simply prefer to be doing something else - welcome procrastination. it looks like Forster has thought about these lapses and allowed for them - so that's good reasoning in my book.

oh, i really, really hope we discover something really useful through all of this.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 03:20:29 PM by nudone » Logged
JacobB
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« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2006, 03:13:19 PM »

I've been implementing GTD in my life for a few years, and I would like to participate, share my experience or anything that I can help.
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app103
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« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2006, 07:10:48 PM »

Hi JacobB! Have you seen Instant Boss yet? I think it came out pretty good. I hope you like it too.  smiley

http://www.donationcoder....ic=4430.msg32502#msg32502
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Dell[a]
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« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2006, 09:46:05 PM »

count me in....
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Amadawn
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« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2006, 12:28:06 AM »

Count me in too! :-)
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urlwolf
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« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2006, 05:08:03 AM »

Nudone,

Before anything, thanks a lot for the huge effort that you seem to be putting into this!

About Forster's score system:
In the page you mention he has an 'all or nothing' approach. That is, if you don't do all the tasks you set up for your day, you get 0 points.

I *think* I have read somewhere in his 2 books that he relaxed that scoring system but I might be wrong.

I spent 15 min looking for it and couldn't find it (damn paper version of books, if it was a pdf I'd be done!).

I think Forster is a dormant giant. Right now, GTD is completely dominating the field. But... watch out for GED. He is in the UK, whereas David Allen is in the US and a lot more 'commertial' (he has an entire company doing marketing, etc). GED is a one-man operation.

I think somebody with experience designing games *here at donation coder there must be someone!* should take care of the scoring system.

I encourage you to read at least "do it tomorrow". It's tiny.
I commit myself (here, a first commitment even before the GTD challenge has started smiley ) to read the two books and post a review.
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nudone
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« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2006, 06:10:09 AM »

okay, i shall also order both of the Forster books later today.

from what i've read so far on his website i do like what he has to say. he's been through the GTD process and realised it isn't perfect - something many of us will relate to. he also has ideas that will be common i'm sure to those of us that have pondered on how to change our bad habits.

mouser will be developing the game scoring, or whatever it eventually turns out to be, but it will depend on what we learn and suggest as a group.

it has been suggested that we all attempt to live by the common GTD 'rules' for the first month of the experiment and then we can discuss what a scoring based method will require. the second or final month of the experiment will then hopefully be performed using the 'scoring program' for those of us that feel like using it.

the most important part will simply be the taking part as a group and hopefully finding that sharing the experience helps get things done. all being well, the scoring program will provide a solo method of sticking to GTD when there is no one else there to provide encouragement.
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MĂĽnster
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« Reply #65 on: August 21, 2006, 08:53:46 AM »

Sounds very interesting. I sure could use a "personal upgrade" in that area so, I'm in.
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dallee
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« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2006, 03:55:10 PM »

FYI there is an accepted scoring method for GTD, based on white through black belts.

It is from a David Co. newsletter and is set out in a message posted on their freely accessible web pages.  The link is
http://davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5265

Set out in full below, without attempting to deter framing an alternate scoring system.

               Dallee

                  * * *
White Belt

You’ve recognized the art of workflow management as something to get personally better at. White belt is actually a rank to be proud of – it means you’ve begun, which puts you ahead of those who are not conscious of, or not interested in, improving your game. You’ve had a taste of what it’s like to clear the decks, with perhaps a Mind Sweep and an initial gathering of things that have your attention in your work area and maybe at home as well. You’ve become more conscious of your in-basket as a place to toss still unprocessed stuff. You’re writing things down a little more than you previously did, a little more consistently. You’ve made a stab at setting up some sort of list-management tool and structure.

Green Belt

You’ve got some lists that you use regularly, and you’re comfortable with your system for some basic things. A self-management tool is with you most of the time. You’ve tasted the thrill of zero in your e-mail in-basket a few times. You’ve set up a workable paper-based filing system, and have a labeler you use yourself. You’ve purged and organized at least one major “black hole” storage area at work or at home. You’ve actually done one relatively thorough Weekly Review and tasted the accompanying on-top-and-in-charge feeling. You’ve started to swear by the Two-Minute Rule. You’ve got some sort of portable note-taking device you’re actually using now and then. You try to convince people around you how cool all this stuff is and that they should do it too. “What are we trying to accomplish?” and “What’s the next action?” are creeping into your operational vocabulary with others at work.

Brown Belt

You don’t hesitate to write things down, even when old-fashioned people around you aren’t. You no longer need a reminder to get your head empty regularly. You’re doing “Monthly Weekly Reviews.” Home and office are equally under control. “List maker” is no longer a pejorative. No notes are left on legal pads. E-mail is a zero at least once a week. Processing your paper in-basket is actually fun, most of the time. You have a “Projects” list that is probably 75% complete and current. In the dentist’s office, you have your own reading material. You’ve stopped interrupting people around you for non-emergency communications, choosing e-mail or notes into their in-baskets instead. You’re feeling comfortable with a big list of undone actions. You’ve set up a Someday/Maybe list and have moved items there from your Projects lists, and vice-versa. You don’t share your labeler. All paper-based reference that won’t stand up by itself is in your files, and you actually like to file stuff. You’re somewhat intolerant of those who don’t exercise the same best practices. You’ve started some good checklists. You know what to do with almost everything. Your next-action lists are actually next actions, not small sub-projects. A majority of your focus is thinking about your stuff instead of of it. “What are we trying to accomplish?” and “What’s the next action?” are creeping into your operational vocabulary with others at home.

Black Belt

You have to look at your Calls list to know whom you have to call. You trust your intuitive prioritizing all day long. You can’t stand not doing a complete Weekly Review, and you’re operationally squeaky clean at least every couple of weeks. Your review time regularly takes you down constructive rabbit trails of creative thinking, decision-making, and idea generation. You no longer complain about lack of quality thinking time. You can leave a mountain of stuff in your in-basket and still have a good time, confident it’s all in a trusted system and will get tackled soon enough. You’re using speed keys instead of your mouse. You create useful temporary checklists on a whim. You’re willing to tackle thinking about any project or situation on call. All of your reference files have been reviewed within the last year. Your systems are completely accessible, functional and intact as you move from location to location. Others are highly sensitive to what they bring into your environment. There is little distinction between work and personal – there’s simply a positive focus on whatever you’re doing. You know how (and do) get yourself totally back into control by yourself, when you’ve slipped much longer than you’re comfortable with. You don’t need to convince anyone about the methodology – you’re usually not thinking about it, merely using it. You’ve stopped complaining about e-mail. You’ve lost only a couple of receipts this year. Friends no longer want you to see inside their offices or cars.

Black belt – 2nd Degree

Time has disappeared, most of the time. You often move fast, but you’re seldom busy. When you’re playing with the dog, you’re not thinking about any of the big stuff – you’ve already thought about it. You know what every key in your desk drawer is for.
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nudone
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« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2006, 04:08:26 PM »

thanks, that's useful to know, dallee, but it's not anything remotely like the scoring system we'll hopefully be discussing/introducing later on.
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urlwolf
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« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2006, 06:03:53 PM »

Here is a extremely nice doc explaining how real users of MLO feel after using open lists (to dos) for a while, and what they think the software should provide.

http://www.cunningham.me....title=The_Real_To_Do_List

I think the idea of closed lists is tied to the idea of scoring.

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TucknDar
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« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2006, 12:10:11 PM »

Have to say that GED really looks like something I could use. Gonna buy Forster's book and see if it helps me Get Everything Done Wink

Procrastinating is fun...  Cry
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Deozaan
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« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2006, 02:13:01 PM »

I still don't understand what GTD is.  Sounds like someone just made up a catch phrase to get people to do what they should be doing anyway without paying for David Allen to come psyche them up to get organized etc.

I'd like to GTD, but I don't really know what that entails.
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longrun
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« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2006, 08:13:50 PM »

I think I'll join, maybe tomorrow or the next day....
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Jumble
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« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2006, 09:01:29 PM »

I just finished reading David Allen's book (GTD). I'm very intrigued by his ideas, and I want to try putting them into practice.  Maybe with the help of the "GTD Experiment," I will start off on the right foot. I'm enthusiastic about participating!
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mouser
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« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2006, 05:26:26 PM »

Talking with Nudone and Urlwolf, i think there are several ways we could go with the GTD Experiment, depending on what people want to do.

Here is what sounds most interesting to me personally:  Start out with GTD basics, which i personally find very sensible.  And then after a while, when everyone has put into practice the key ideas for a few weeks, begin to discuss other ideas, like GED, and encourage people to share their experiences of what works and doesnt.

In other words, everyone who is participating is commiting to improve their efficiency and working process in a dramatic and permanent way.  We are doing this because we all want to learn to better manage the stuff we want to accomplish, and feel less stressed doing it.

This 3 month experiment is designed to help us find what works best for us and share those experiences.  The same thing that works for me may not work for you, and vice versa.  But by the end of these 3 months, you *will* have a system in place, and a new attitude about accomplishing your tasks.

You may find that GTD is perfect for you, and never veer off; you may find that you have to invent your own system.

The important thing is that by the end of the 3rd month, you will have a new system that works for you.  There is no room for excuses about "this system is a gimick it didn't work for me!" - because if it doesnt work it's YOUR responsibility to invent a system that does.

By sharing our ideas and experiences, perhaps we can come up with some new principles and rules for our own new DC-style efficiency system.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 12:54:29 AM by nudone » Logged
nudone
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« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2006, 02:57:38 PM »

i've finished reading Mark Forster's most recent book 'Do It Tomorrow'. like urlwolf, i will now recommend it to anyone looking for guidance on how to manage their time better - especially if you have tried the GTD system in the past and not managed to stick at it.

i'm sure we'll be able to discuss the techniques found in the book over the oncoming weeks but i really don't think it fair to recite the words of Mr. Forster in detail here - it's more correct if his books are bought by anyone wishing to know more.

i will start to implement the Forster technique tomorrow - maybe only in a half-hearted way to serve as a warm up for the real DC GTD experiment kick-off.

anyway, i find myself unable to criticise anything that he has to say in the book - every bit of scepticism i had has gone and i'm looking forward to being fully productive from now on - and if i'm not i won't feel bad about it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 03:04:29 PM by nudone » Logged
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