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Author Topic: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion  (Read 3982 times)

wraith808

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Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« on: January 04, 2018, 02:07 PM »
Star-Wars-The-Last-Jedi-1.jpg

The Last Jedi

There's quite the controversy over this, but I think it's a backlash over the extended universe to a large extent, mixed with reasonable complaints.

I enjoyed it for the most part, while acknowledging the failures in writing and trimming of unnecessary plot points.  It's also conflated with different political movements, IMO.

Spoiler
The Finn/Rose detour to the Gambling planet, while cool, was unnecessary narratively. You cut it out, and nothing in the movie changes.  That's bad writing, IMO.  You have to be ready to kill your darlings, and that definitely applies to that whole subplot.


Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 03:33 PM »
I saw The Last Jedi yesterday.

I went in with low expectations and was pleasantly surprised. I'd say it was pretty decent for a recent Star Wars film. It had some cool moments. It had some cheesy moments. It had a bit of slapstick.

I don't get the appeal of the furry penguin bird things. They played a minor, minor, minor part in the movie (which is a good thing, IMO). They were stupid-annoying like minions from the Despicable Me movies, but without fun(ny) bits that almost redeems minions. That said, I found them less annoying than minions, but ultimately pointless and forgettable.

I also don't know anything about the extended universe of Star Wars. I haven't read any of the books, and haven't seen any of the movies or TV shows except the 8 main "episodes" and Rogue One. And I may have caught bits of the Ewok Christmas special as a child.

In response to wraith808's "spoiler," and a bit of my own opinions/observations:
Spoiler
While I agree that the detour to the gambling planet was mostly filler and could have been trimmed down a lot, it did set up a few things for later in the movie:

  • It allowed Finn and Rose to have some shared experiences so it would (almost) make sense when she professed her love for him.
  • It introduced us to the slave children which the film hinted at being the upcoming/rising generation of rebels/Jedi.

One thing I don't understand is why one person had to remain behind on each ship while the rest of the people were being evacuated. It just seemed like a needless sacrifice in an effort to try to artificially increase the feeling of dramatic suspense.


wraith808

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 03:45 PM »
I don't get the appeal of the furry penguin bird things. They played a minor, minor, minor part in the movie (which is a good thing, IMO). They were stupid-annoying like minions from the Despicable Me movies, but without fun(ny) bits that almost redeems minions. That said, I found them less annoying than minions, but ultimately pointless and forgettable.

I think that they were the attempt at merchandising, and making the link to the money something that won't detract from the larger franchise, i.e. have something cute and appealing that the story doesn't hinge on.  Their other attempts have had too much influence on the story, IMO.  And it seems that they hit the right balance with the Porgs.

porgs.jpg
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:09 AM by wraith808 »

mouser

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 06:41 AM »
YouTube is FILLED TO THE BRIM with people offering their criticism of the Last Jedi.  I was tired when I saw it and haven't been much of a fan of the recent star wars films.  This one was not much different. meh.
However  I am enjoying watching the you videos attacking it though, much more than I enjoyed the movie itself  :P
I have to say I agree with most of the criticisms..  But agree or not, it's fun to listen to what people felt was wrong with it.

rgdot

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 08:55 AM »
Haven't seen it but for me it is a difficult concept to accept that dark side and evil exist after the way Episode VI ended. It was such a good ending and very 'final'. Disney of course is equal to commercialization so many movies will still be made ... Saw The Force Awakens whenit came out and it was just ok, not great imo


Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 09:09 AM »
I don't get the appeal of the furry penguin bird things.

I think that they were the attempt at merchandising

Yes, exactly. That much was apparent.

I guess BB8's novelty has worn off and kids need something new to beg their parents to waste their money on. :D

YouTube is FILLED TO THE BRIM with people offering their criticism of the Last Jedi.

Got links to some good ones? I'd be interested in seeing some of them.

The Last Jedi certainly isn't perfect, or even amazing. I'm not trying to defend it or proclaim that it is a wonderful film. I feel it is a step up from the prequels (1-3). And while The Force Awakens and Rogue One were also better (IMO) than the prequels, I feel Last Jedi was the better of these recent three films. The franchise films have gone from being amazingly groundbreaking (4-6) to headscratchingly cringeworthy (1-3) to, as someone I know put it, "it's alright, but the magic is gone" (7, 8, Rogue One).

One note of criticism that I noticed: Many people complained that The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope. It seemed to me that there were many parallels between The Last Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back.

mouser

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 12:35 PM »
Got links to some good ones? I'd be interested in seeing some of them.

I enjoyed this sarcastic one:
https://www.youtube..../watch?v=1v2PV52WNLY
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:23 AM by mouser »

Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 09:02 PM »
Jenny Nicholson has some counterpoints in her Top 10 Worst Reasons You Hated The Last Jedi video:

Spoilers, of course!



(Notice the giant porg in the background; Disney's marketing is working.)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:22 AM by Deozaan »

mouser

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 10:46 PM »
Yeah she's good.

wraith808

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 07:34 AM »
Kevin Smith's Review of the Last Jedi

Yeah... spoilers.  And much language was had.


tomos

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 08:15 AM »
On a side note I see they shot on the Skelligs (wikipedia). I havent been on the islands, but at one stage worked on a contour map of the island, preparing it for publication (basically taking a technical-drawing with lines with no line-weight, making it look good).
Here a photo from the book and screenshot-detail of the map.

WP_20180110_14_54_54_Pro01.jpgStar Wars Last Jedi movie discussion

Screenshot - 2018-01-10 , 15_07_24.pngStar Wars Last Jedi movie discussion

Screenshot - 2018-01-10 , 14_49_28.pngStar Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
Tom

mouser

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 10:30 AM »
Regarding Jenny Nicholson's points:
Spoiler
In general I kind of agree with her and others that the complaints about some of the storytelling "decisions" are overblown or could be easily argued from the other side.  But for me the problem wasn't the storytelling decisions but the emotional tone and execution.  Jenny talks about why the death of snoke was fine and makes the case for the surprising death of someone powerful as good storytelling and gives the example of the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones.  But that Red Wedding scene in Game of Thrones was incredibly powerful and was done so well in terms of people we grew to know and the delivery was built up and delivered in a way that was very emotionally effective.  The death of snoke felt so trivial and un-satisfying.  That was my problem with a scene like that.  It wasn't the storytelling "facts" that I had much of a problem with -- it simply didn't ring true to me and it wasn't satisfying.  It had no weight to it.  And throughout the movie the tone of things like the humor etc just missed for me.  You can put me in the camp of folks who think the humor is being overdone in these movies lately (marvel, etc.).  I like my sci-fi a little more dark and serious.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:44 AM by mouser »

wraith808

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 12:30 PM »
Perhaps instead of continuing to spoiler in a thread that is meant for Movies seen lately and putting it into a thread meant for that with spoiler warnings, we might have conversation on the subject?  This way seems a bit ... strange.

mouser

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 12:55 PM »
Fair enough! Splitting star wars thread..

wraith808

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 01:40 PM »
In this era of longer is better, I think the movie suffered from that (and TFA and Rogue One, truth be told).  Star Wars movies, if you look back, have been at that 2 hour mark.  But in most cases in the original trilogy, no matter how long, they earned that run time.  The prequels started this tendency to put things in for inexplicable reasons that could have been cut- or at least cut back.  This one continues that tendency.

As far as the Snoke reveal, we always knew that the true hero/villain of the story were Rey and Kylo Ren.  The Snoke bit was always a misdirection to me.  He had the feel of the Emperor.  The same Emperor that even in the prequels was never truly explained.  What I'm more interested in is the conflict between characters than some huge big bad.  They did a good job of cutting out the fat in that regard.  Though Phasma is the Boba Fett of this trilogy.  I wonder if they'll create a copy of her (clone, relative) to realize the potential of the character, like they did with Jango.

At the end, I found myself excited to see where they're going, and that's my indication of the fact that I'm in the "I like it" camp.  They just need to develop their secondary storylines more, and in a more realistic manner.  Poe, Finn, and Rose seemed shoehorned in to increase the runtime.  I like the characters, but those storylines really were not necessary.  Why wouldn't Holdo tell Poe what the plan is?  She knows he's a hothead, so the best way to disarm him?  Include him.  It seems obvious.  That's lazy writing.  Same thing with the Casino world, and meeting someone that didn't fit the description they'd been given, but can happen to hack the shields.  That's less lazy than bad writing.

I really want to like Finn.  His back story is unique.  But he feels like a Jar Jar to me (that starting bit with him awakening was jarring and unnecessary, and they never overcame that image, even when he was on his suicide run.  I really like Poe.  But he's less like Han Solo as the loose cannon than a real joke, which is sad considering his demonstrated skills.

The primary story... that's a good thing with a few nitpicks.  But the secondary stories... not so much.

wraith808

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 12:02 PM »

Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 03:23 PM »
Wait, a large portion of the 2nd movie (of the final (or third) trilogy) took place on a planet called Ach-To? Is it just me or is that just a play on "act two"?

I started Kevin Smith's review but then realized it was a feature-length video and am not sure I have time for it at the moment. But I'll try to get to it.

Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 11:23 PM »
I got through the 90 minute Kevin Smith "review" just now. I wouldn't call that a review so much as a play-by-play of the events of the movie.

It seemed to me there was very little critical content in the review. It was mostly just him retelling what happened and then saying how much he liked it. I dunno; I guess that's a review...

Edvard

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2018, 03:53 PM »
...
Same thing with the Casino world, and meeting someone that didn't fit the description they'd been given, but can happen to hack the shields.  That's less lazy than bad writing.
...

I kept waiting for that guy to say he lost his flower pin to the slick dude in a game of Sabacc, but... nope.  Now that I think of it though, that would have been a lazy plot device as well, due to it being a too-easy explanation.  Or not, your choice.

Ah well, carry on...

Deozaan

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Re: Star Wars Last Jedi movie discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2018, 12:08 AM »
I kept waiting for that guy to say he lost his flower pin to the slick dude in a game of Sabacc, but... nope.

Ditto.