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Last post Author Topic: Looking for smartphone  (Read 6254 times)

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2016, 08:45:53 PM »
surprised to read that none of the three Moto G4 variants have regular compass capability, which means most navigation apps will not work.

A compass is not required for (GPS based) navigation, it is only of interest if you want to know what direction you are facing while stationary, (and if you want that added to photo metadata).

GPS based navigation programs will give you the direction you are heading in as soon as you move more than a few meters.
I have had only had one phone that has had a compass (my current one), all my previous (5 Android phones) never did, yet they have no problem doing satellite navigation.

Most early GPS receivers never had compasses ... they still work.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 09:30:22 PM by 4wd »

tomos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2016, 07:27:30 AM »
surprised to read that none of the three Moto G4 variants have regular compass capability, which means most navigation apps will not work.

A compass is not required for (GPS based) navigation, it is only of interest if you want to know what direction you are facing while stationary, (and if you want that added to photo metadata).

GPS based navigation programs will give you the direction you are heading in as soon as you move more than a few meters.
I have had only had one phone that has had a compass (my current one), all my previous (5 Android phones) never did, yet they have no problem doing satellite navigation.

Most early GPS receivers never had compasses ... they still work.

as can happen (to me), I didnt understand fully what I was saying :-[ :) [edit] there's technical term for that, isn't there :D [/edit]
Went back for a second look, below about the Moto G4 (in translation) from amazon.de:

Quote
Much worse is shame on you Lenovo, the abandonment of basic sensors for navigation. What the hell is that? These are absolute basic features, which even 100 € Smartphones easily master. For a 249 UVP smartphone absolutely unworthy. What does it mean in the plain text?

The Moto G4 supports only A-GPS! And it has no magnetometer. There is therefore no Glonass support and a compass. A-GPS needs additional WLAN or mobile phone reception. How to navigate however 99% of the mobile navis and as long as one is in the area of ​​the net cover with mobile Internet is there no problems. There is also a real GPS sensor. Inlandsnavigation by car is thus very well possible (with good satellite reception on 3m accurate).

However, if you do not have an Internet connection for a long time, the corresponding help data can not be downloaded and the GPS fix can take several minutes (otherwise 5-20 sec). Glonass support would have been great, however, to enable even faster and more precise location determinations through a dual system. And a compass for the orientation on the map is also indispensable, if you have no orientation points and you do not want to go a stretch to know in which direction of heaven one moves. Even in the city, it is sensible to know where to go. Where the needle points is the direction of view.
[..]
No idea why these important parts have been rationalized away a few cents away, but a gyroscope is there. If you never navigate with your mobile phone as a pedestrian Problem-free access, who does it, well consider whether one can do without the feature! For me it is a often used basic feature, since I am often in foreign cities and also for wild walks less suitable.

As I said, for a 249 UVP smartphone absolutely unworthy. I hope Lenovo soon reworked. These arguments seem to be unimportant for most and overall, it is still a very good smartphone with limited pedestrian navigation. In addition, I often need a compass when walking and other situations (for example, astrophotography is also facilitated). For me it is however one of the most outstanding negative aspects of this smartphone, which for most should already be an indication that not much wrong can be when relatively bad speakers and a missing compass are the biggest drawbacks.
https://www.amazon.d...&ASIN=B01FLZC8ZI

I'm fairly ignorant of these things, but navigation is something I'd like to work 'properly'
Tom
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:34:37 AM by tomos »

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #77 on: December 20, 2016, 06:39:40 PM »
I'm fairly ignorant of these things, but navigation is something I'd like to work 'properly'

Any recent, (and not so recent), smart phone with a GPS will work fine, if the Huawei Y201 Pro and the Huawei Y300, (both of which I own and cost less than AU$50 each, 3+ years ago), can happily do navigation and the G4 can't, then Lenovo has problems.

Work out what you want to do with the phone, then work out what functions the phone has to have to fulfil them.
eg.
  • If you're going to take 360⁰ photo spheres with the camera, then it has to have gyroscope.
  • If you want photo metadata that shows which direction you were facing when you took the photo, then it has to have a compass, (although I just use GeoSetter + Google Maps usually).
  • If you want to play games that require tilting/moving the phone, then it has to have an accelerometer.
  • If you want to navigate, it has to have a GPS receiver.
  • If you just like playing with gadgets, get everything.

The below are all quoted from the "review":

Quote
Much worse is shame on you Lenovo, the abandonment of basic sensors for navigation.

To put things into perspective, my current 'real' GPS receiver is a Geko 201.  It has the following: a GPS receiver ... that's it.

I bought it in 2003 when I was in the USA, no Compass, no Magnetometer, no Accelerometer, no Gyroscope, no Barometer, no Assisted GPS (A-GPS), etc, etc, etc.
It still works, it'll keep working until the GPS satellites fall out of the sky or it dies in some unknowable fashion.
I can load a route into it and tell it to guide me, it'll tell me what direction I'm heading in as soon as I start moving.

From a cold start it'll take a couple of minutes to acquire a fix but if you're in that much of a hurry, turn it on before you need it.

The G4 comes with the basic requirements for navigation: a GPS receiver ... that is all that is required. Anything extra is just a bonus toy.

Quote
The Moto G4 supports only A-GPS!

It's not only A-GPS, it's a GPS receiver with Assisted GPS function, it can download GPS Almanac data through a network connection, this data will also be downloaded from the GPS satellites themselves if it is out of date, (this is what my Geko did), and there's no network connection.

About the Almanac:
Quote
The GPS almanac is a set of data that every GPS satellite transmits, and it includes information about the state (health) of the entire GPS satellite constellation and coarse data on every satellite's orbit.

Not having current Almanac data can slow down the time to first fix (TTFF) due to having to get it from the satellites but that is all.
Pointless Info
It requires 3 GPS satellites to calculate a 2D location fix, it requires 4 GPS satellites to get a good 3D location fix, (ie. altitude). Once a location fix is obtained a GPS receiver can get by with only 2 satellite signals until those signals are lost, then it will be a warm start to reacquire which should only take 10-20 seconds.
If the Almanac data is out of date then it requires approximately 30 seconds of good signal reception from each satellite in order to update the receiver. Once it has the almanac for 1 satellite it can use the data to predict the locations of other satellites.
So, in theory, it should only take a 2-3 minutes from cold start to get a position given decent signal reception.


A-GPS can also speed up TTFF using trilateration from mobile phone tower signals.

Quote
And it has no magnetometer.

It's not required, move a couple of meters or so and it'll tell you which direction you're going.

Quote
There is therefore no Glonass support and a compass.

Must be something in the translation but the answer to this statement as read would have to be: So?

Quote
A-GPS needs additional WLAN or mobile phone reception.

Yes it does but A-GPS is not required ... therefore a data connection is not required.

Quote
There is also a real GPS sensor. Inlandsnavigation by car is thus very well possible (with good satellite reception on 3m accurate).

Finally he gets the idea that it has a GPS receiver. And it won't just work inland by car, it'll also work on a boat and in a plane providing it can get a clear view of the satellites.

Quote
However, if you do not have an Internet connection for a long time, the corresponding help data can not be downloaded ...

GPS Almanac data will be downloaded from the satellites, it'll just take longer.

Quote
... and the GPS fix can take several minutes (otherwise 5-20 sec).

Yes it can but generally the Almanac data is only required once a month or so and a cold start TTFF without A-GPS will most likely be about 2-3 minutes.

Quote
Glonass support would have been great, however, to enable even faster and more precise location determinations through a dual system.

Faster, more accurate ... maybe.  My RN2 can receive GPS (USA), GLONASS (Russia), BDS (China), and use A-GPS ... I don't think I've seen better than 3m accuracy from it and that's using 18 out of 27 satellites.

Having access to more satellites doesn't guarantee increased accuracy as you're still relying on the electronics with whatever tolerances they use plus other factors, (multi-path ghosting, etc), and how it copes with them.

Quote
And a compass for the orientation on the map is also indispensable, if you have no orientation points and you do not want to go a stretch to know in which direction of heaven one moves. Even in the city, it is sensible to know where to go. Where the needle points is the direction of view.

It's not indispensable, as for a 'stretch', is moving 5 meters really too much to do?

Quote
... but a gyroscope is there.

Because it is necessary to have a gyroscope in order to take 360⁰ photo spheres which are popular, a compass isn't really necessary unless you also want that info in photo metadata.

Quote
For me it is a often used basic feature, since I am often in foreign cities and also for wild walks less suitable.

At last he finally admits that this is his problem. The fact is, he wants a compass but then went and bought a smart phone that he knew didn't have one ... I mean, he did check the specifications first, didn't he?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 12:23:55 AM by 4wd »

tomos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2016, 03:20:42 AM »
thanks 4wd, you're a mine of information :Thmbsup:

Work out what you want to do with the phone, then work out what functions the phone has to have to fulfil them.

I live in the woods, and do cycle and walk a bit. I have used my current phone (Nokia 730) on occasion to find out where the hell I was and what direction I should be heading -- it did seem to work pretty quickly, but not sure whether I had internet connection at the time (unlikely, but possible). Hence, I did think the navigation thing was important/of interest. I'll have to come back to this when I have a bit of time:
figure out what my current phone can do (I dont *think* it has a compass), and what I would like in a new (android) one.

Tom

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2016, 06:28:48 AM »
... current phone (Nokia 730) ...

Stick with it unless there's something on Android you want, (or just want a more powerful phone), since it's equipped with basically the same as my phone: GPS, GLONASS, BDS, A-GPS, and a compass.

No gyroscope so if you want to start doing photo spheres you'll need a new phone.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 06:35:42 AM by 4wd »

tomos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #80 on: December 21, 2016, 09:28:21 AM »
... current phone (Nokia 730) ...

Stick with it unless there's something on Android you want, (or just want a more powerful phone), since it's equipped with basically the same as my phone: GPS, GLONASS, BDS, A-GPS, and a compass.

gotta say: it is a great phone -- not powerful, but was perfect for my needs, with a very nice camera (in daylight at any rate).
There are definitely things on Android I'd like. Having just bought a camera (Panasonic GX85) which can be controlled via app (only android/iphone), makes it tempting -- but that app might end up being one of those toys that never really get used. Of course having just bought that camera probably means I should save any spare money in the bank for my next dentist visit or something responsible like that.
Will hold out another bit.

edit/ photo from Nokia 730:

Screenshot - 2016-12-21 , 16_32_36.jpgLooking for smartphone
Tom

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2016, 06:47:21 PM »
Having just bought a camera (Panasonic GX85) which can be controlled via app (only android/iphone), makes it tempting -- but that app might end up being one of those toys that never really get used.

Yep, the HTC RE action cam I've got can be controlled via the phone but it's quicker to just hit the button on the camera, still have to use the app if I want anything fancy though, (time lapse or preview).

BTW, if you ever have a question about whether a phone can do navigation then something to remind you, all the basic dedicated SatNav units have just a GPS receiver and some maps.

No fancy sensors, they're a step up from my old Geko which doesn't have maps  :)

tomos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2016, 01:15:14 AM »
BTW, if you ever have a question about whether a phone can do navigation then something to remind you, all the basic dedicated SatNav units have just a GPS receiver and some maps.
okay,
will keep in mind
thanks!
Tom

kalos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #83 on: December 22, 2016, 07:34:49 PM »
4wd any recommendation for me?

kalos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2017, 03:48:26 PM »
My Xiaomi Pro 3 is coming soon!  ;D ;D

How can I transfer my data from my current Samsung Note 3?

Is there a way?
Or I have to do everything from scratch?

Thanks!

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2017, 05:58:11 PM »
How can I transfer my data from my current Samsung Note 3?

  • Phone to PC and then from PC to Phone
  • Google Drive
  • Flash drive via OTG
  • AirDroid
  • FTP server
  • Unplug uSD from old phone, plug into new phone
  • Turn on Backup data and Automatic Restore
  • Root phone, back up apps with Titanium Backup ★ root, restore on (rooted) new phone

Be more specific: What "data" ?

xtabber

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2017, 06:59:05 AM »
For call logs, I recommend SMS Backup & Restore (free).

For everything else, I use X-plore File Manager, which is free but you need to make a donation to unlock the ability to work across a network.  If you use more than one Android device, X-plore's WiFi-share server is particularly useful and also lets you manage files on your Android devices from a PC web browser.

kalos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2017, 05:32:00 PM »
How can I transfer my data from my current Samsung Note 3?

  • Phone to PC and then from PC to Phone
  • Google Drive
  • Flash drive via OTG
  • AirDroid
  • FTP server
  • Unplug uSD from old phone, plug into new phone
  • Turn on Backup data and Automatic Restore
  • Root phone, back up apps with Titanium Backup ★ root, restore on (rooted) new phone

Be more specific: What "data" ?

By data, I mean not really files like photos and videos that I can just copy to the new phone.

I mean for example my YMail app that has been set up with my accounts, my settings etc. My Tasker app, that has scripts and settings. My Sleipnir browser that has bookmarks and opened tabs that it remembers.

Is there a way to transfer these or I have to manually install them and set them up from the begining?

Also, I don't quite understand the list you said, are these steps of the procedure? Will that procedure do what I need?
thanks!

4wd

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2017, 09:47:06 PM »
Also, I don't quite understand the list you said, are these steps of the procedure? Will that procedure do what I need?

It's a list of possibilities because you failed to clarify exactly what you were talking about.

Quote
I mean for example my YMail app that has been set up with my accounts, my settings etc. My Tasker app, that has scripts and settings. My Sleipnir browser that has bookmarks and opened tabs that it remembers.

Is there a way to transfer these or I have to manually install them and set them up from the begining?

Either of these two:
  • Turn on Backup data and Automatic Restore
  • Root phone, back up apps with Titanium Backup ★ root, restore on (rooted) new phone

Turn on Back up my data and Automatic restore in Settings->Backup & reset
Screenshot_2017-01-16-14-39-33.pngLooking for smartphone

Once you install the app from the Play store on your new phone, all its settings should be restored from your Google account (in theory).
Don't forget to turn on syncing to the account under Settings->Accounts->Google->account and initiate a synchronisation.

You'll probably need to copy the Tasker scripts across.


Otherwise, you can root your phones and use Titanium Backup ★ root (what I always use).

kalos

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Re: Looking for smartphone
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2017, 04:08:10 PM »
thanks but I don't want to root my phone

if I root it, all my banking apps do not work, but MobileIron doesn't work so I cannot have access to my work emails!