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4wd:
surprised to read that none of the three Moto G4 variants have regular compass capability, which means most navigation apps will not work.-tomos (December 19, 2016, 05:03 PM)
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A compass is not required for (GPS based) navigation, it is only of interest if you want to know what direction you are facing while stationary, (and if you want that added to photo metadata).

GPS based navigation programs will give you the direction you are heading in as soon as you move more than a few meters.
I have had only had one phone that has had a compass (my current one), all my previous (5 Android phones) never did, yet they have no problem doing satellite navigation.

Most early GPS receivers never had compasses ... they still work.

tomos:
surprised to read that none of the three Moto G4 variants have regular compass capability, which means most navigation apps will not work.-tomos (December 19, 2016, 05:03 PM)
--- End quote ---

A compass is not required for (GPS based) navigation, it is only of interest if you want to know what direction you are facing while stationary, (and if you want that added to photo metadata).

GPS based navigation programs will give you the direction you are heading in as soon as you move more than a few meters.
I have had only had one phone that has had a compass (my current one), all my previous (5 Android phones) never did, yet they have no problem doing satellite navigation.

Most early GPS receivers never had compasses ... they still work.
-4wd (December 19, 2016, 08:45 PM)
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as can happen (to me), I didnt understand fully what I was saying :-[ :) [edit] there's technical term for that, isn't there :D [/edit]
Went back for a second look, below about the Moto G4 (in translation) from amazon.de:

Much worse is shame on you Lenovo, the abandonment of basic sensors for navigation. What the hell is that? These are absolute basic features, which even 100 € Smartphones easily master. For a 249 UVP smartphone absolutely unworthy. What does it mean in the plain text?

The Moto G4 supports only A-GPS! And it has no magnetometer. There is therefore no Glonass support and a compass. A-GPS needs additional WLAN or mobile phone reception. How to navigate however 99% of the mobile navis and as long as one is in the area of ​​the net cover with mobile Internet is there no problems. There is also a real GPS sensor. Inlandsnavigation by car is thus very well possible (with good satellite reception on 3m accurate).

However, if you do not have an Internet connection for a long time, the corresponding help data can not be downloaded and the GPS fix can take several minutes (otherwise 5-20 sec). Glonass support would have been great, however, to enable even faster and more precise location determinations through a dual system. And a compass for the orientation on the map is also indispensable, if you have no orientation points and you do not want to go a stretch to know in which direction of heaven one moves. Even in the city, it is sensible to know where to go. Where the needle points is the direction of view.
[..]
No idea why these important parts have been rationalized away a few cents away, but a gyroscope is there. If you never navigate with your mobile phone as a pedestrian Problem-free access, who does it, well consider whether one can do without the feature! For me it is a often used basic feature, since I am often in foreign cities and also for wild walks less suitable.

As I said, for a 249 UVP smartphone absolutely unworthy. I hope Lenovo soon reworked. These arguments seem to be unimportant for most and overall, it is still a very good smartphone with limited pedestrian navigation. In addition, I often need a compass when walking and other situations (for example, astrophotography is also facilitated). For me it is however one of the most outstanding negative aspects of this smartphone, which for most should already be an indication that not much wrong can be when relatively bad speakers and a missing compass are the biggest drawbacks.
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https://www.amazon.de/gp/customer-reviews/R1NZT31R9S8GM1/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01FLZC8ZI

I'm fairly ignorant of these things, but navigation is something I'd like to work 'properly'

4wd:
I'm fairly ignorant of these things, but navigation is something I'd like to work 'properly'-tomos (December 20, 2016, 07:27 AM)
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Any recent, (and not so recent), smart phone with a GPS will work fine, if the Huawei Y201 Pro and the Huawei Y300, (both of which I own and cost less than AU$50 each, 3+ years ago), can happily do navigation and the G4 can't, then Lenovo has problems.

Work out what you want to do with the phone, then work out what functions the phone has to have to fulfil them.
eg.

* If you're going to take 360⁰ photo spheres with the camera, then it has to have gyroscope.
* If you want photo metadata that shows which direction you were facing when you took the photo, then it has to have a compass, (although I just use GeoSetter + Google Maps usually).
* If you want to play games that require tilting/moving the phone, then it has to have an accelerometer.
* If you want to navigate, it has to have a GPS receiver.
* If you just like playing with gadgets, get everything.
The below are all quoted from the "review":

Much worse is shame on you Lenovo, the abandonment of basic sensors for navigation.
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To put things into perspective, my current 'real' GPS receiver is a Geko 201.  It has the following: a GPS receiver ... that's it.

I bought it in 2003 when I was in the USA, no Compass, no Magnetometer, no Accelerometer, no Gyroscope, no Barometer, no Assisted GPS (A-GPS), etc, etc, etc.
It still works, it'll keep working until the GPS satellites fall out of the sky or it dies in some unknowable fashion.
I can load a route into it and tell it to guide me, it'll tell me what direction I'm heading in as soon as I start moving.

From a cold start it'll take a couple of minutes to acquire a fix but if you're in that much of a hurry, turn it on before you need it.

The G4 comes with the basic requirements for navigation: a GPS receiver ... that is all that is required. Anything extra is just a bonus toy.

The Moto G4 supports only A-GPS!
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It's not only A-GPS, it's a GPS receiver with Assisted GPS function, it can download GPS Almanac data through a network connection, this data will also be downloaded from the GPS satellites themselves if it is out of date, (this is what my Geko did), and there's no network connection.

About the Almanac:
The GPS almanac is a set of data that every GPS satellite transmits, and it includes information about the state (health) of the entire GPS satellite constellation and coarse data on every satellite's orbit.
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Not having current Almanac data can slow down the time to first fix (TTFF) due to having to get it from the satellites but that is all.
Pointless InfoIt requires 3 GPS satellites to calculate a 2D location fix, it requires 4 GPS satellites to get a good 3D location fix, (ie. altitude). Once a location fix is obtained a GPS receiver can get by with only 2 satellite signals until those signals are lost, then it will be a warm start to reacquire which should only take 10-20 seconds.
If the Almanac data is out of date then it requires approximately 30 seconds of good signal reception from each satellite in order to update the receiver. Once it has the almanac for 1 satellite it can use the data to predict the locations of other satellites.
So, in theory, it should only take a 2-3 minutes from cold start to get a position given decent signal reception.

A-GPS can also speed up TTFF using trilateration from mobile phone tower signals.

And it has no magnetometer.
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It's not required, move a couple of meters or so and it'll tell you which direction you're going.

There is therefore no Glonass support and a compass.
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Must be something in the translation but the answer to this statement as read would have to be: So?

A-GPS needs additional WLAN or mobile phone reception.
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Yes it does but A-GPS is not required ... therefore a data connection is not required.

There is also a real GPS sensor. Inlandsnavigation by car is thus very well possible (with good satellite reception on 3m accurate).
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Finally he gets the idea that it has a GPS receiver. And it won't just work inland by car, it'll also work on a boat and in a plane providing it can get a clear view of the satellites.

However, if you do not have an Internet connection for a long time, the corresponding help data can not be downloaded ...
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GPS Almanac data will be downloaded from the satellites, it'll just take longer.

... and the GPS fix can take several minutes (otherwise 5-20 sec).
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Yes it can but generally the Almanac data is only required once a month or so and a cold start TTFF without A-GPS will most likely be about 2-3 minutes.

Glonass support would have been great, however, to enable even faster and more precise location determinations through a dual system.
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Faster, more accurate ... maybe.  My RN2 can receive GPS (USA), GLONASS (Russia), BDS (China), and use A-GPS ... I don't think I've seen better than 3m accuracy from it and that's using 18 out of 27 satellites.

Having access to more satellites doesn't guarantee increased accuracy as you're still relying on the electronics with whatever tolerances they use plus other factors, (multi-path ghosting, etc), and how it copes with them.

And a compass for the orientation on the map is also indispensable, if you have no orientation points and you do not want to go a stretch to know in which direction of heaven one moves. Even in the city, it is sensible to know where to go. Where the needle points is the direction of view.
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It's not indispensable, as for a 'stretch', is moving 5 meters really too much to do?

... but a gyroscope is there.
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Because it is necessary to have a gyroscope in order to take 360⁰ photo spheres which are popular, a compass isn't really necessary unless you also want that info in photo metadata.

For me it is a often used basic feature, since I am often in foreign cities and also for wild walks less suitable.
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At last he finally admits that this is his problem. The fact is, he wants a compass but then went and bought a smart phone that he knew didn't have one ... I mean, he did check the specifications first, didn't he?

tomos:
thanks 4wd, you're a mine of information :Thmbsup:

Work out what you want to do with the phone, then work out what functions the phone has to have to fulfil them.
-4wd (December 20, 2016, 06:39 PM)
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I live in the woods, and do cycle and walk a bit. I have used my current phone (Nokia 730) on occasion to find out where the hell I was and what direction I should be heading -- it did seem to work pretty quickly, but not sure whether I had internet connection at the time (unlikely, but possible). Hence, I did think the navigation thing was important/of interest. I'll have to come back to this when I have a bit of time:
figure out what my current phone can do (I dont *think* it has a compass), and what I would like in a new (android) one.

4wd:
... current phone (Nokia 730) ...-tomos (December 21, 2016, 03:20 AM)
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Stick with it unless there's something on Android you want, (or just want a more powerful phone), since it's equipped with basically the same as my phone: GPS, GLONASS, BDS, A-GPS, and a compass.

No gyroscope so if you want to start doing photo spheres you'll need a new phone.

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