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Author Topic: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?  (Read 1364 times)

questorfla

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Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« on: June 29, 2016, 04:00:22 PM »
This is a simple concept and there are a large number of people who would be grateful to have it.  But  PLEASE, I don't need to get "flamed" by everyone for not wanting everything to be as secure as Ft Knox.
What I am describing is the same thing already used in many new Online Programs but would work for any software whether it had that "All Seeing Eyeball" at the end of the password box or not.

What is needed is a way to activate a small on-screen text-box that would display characters as they are typed by capturing the keystrokes from the keyboard.  It would have no record keeping ability, just a line-typed display that would appear on the screen preferably near the password box but anywhere visible would do.

The function would be activated by a hotkey and only be there if the user wanted it and have a times display for 30 seconds or less would probably be plenty.

The purpose is to give "Humans" a chance of knowing what they just typed into their password field before they click <Enter> and get that "Incorrect password only 1 try left" message. 

After seeing the same message 3 previous attempts no matter how certain you are that you are typing the same password you have always typed (You can't 'argue with asterisks',  the "dots win" every time!) many people are one step short of a blown fuse.  I just dealt with another such person here.

This is not meant for being a "password hack".  It is simply a way to give a fighting chance to people using older software that does not offer the "All Seeing Eyeball Icon".  I still see newer MS programs that do not give anyone a way of knowing if they are mistyping or if there is really a reason their OLD password is no longer working.

This information COULD point toward the fact that SOMEONE must have changed it and if it wasn't You?  Then WHO?  I would considered that to be a major Security HELP!  If you don't know what is being entered behind those dots, you can't say.  Maybe someone else DID change your password.

AsterisKey and other like it are considered the tools of trade for a malicious hackers and are sometimes blocked by AV software. What I am proposing is simply a way to allow a person to see what they typed in a password field (or anywhere else) AS THEY TYPE IT.  Kind of like adding the All Seeing Eyeball for programs that don't have it and never will.

4wd

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 08:25:05 PM »
Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey + Show Password onMouseOver userscript - it's what I use.

Of course, that is browser only - the simplest method is to open a text document, type in the password, and then cut/paste it into the input field.

... many people are one step short of a blown fuse.

 ;D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 08:33:09 PM by 4wd »

IainB

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 09:13:27 PM »
That could be quite a handy little utility that is being asked for there. It would basically mirror what you were typing, as you typed.
I don't know that I've come across anything quite like it.
You could consider an option to auto-copy whatever text is mirrored, so that the Clipboard captures it - which could be useful for CHS (Clipboard Help & Spell) users, though not very secure. I'd probably use it (see below).

I sometimes do something similar, but more laborious, using CHS by:
  • (a) bringing up the Add a Quick Note popup window - hotkey that I use for that is Ctrl+Alt+Z;
  • (b) then I type in the thing I want to see - e.g., a password - and when I have got it right,
  • (c) I copy/paste it into the password field, where it appears as obfuscated text (large black dots).
  • (d) I then Cancel the Add a Quick Note popup window, so the password is not saved.
  • (e) I always and periodically (each day) go through the CHS clips and delete the clip I took of the password (unless I want to keep it in CHS), and any other "detritus".

I should stress that I only do this for setting up access to relatively unimportant sites - e.g., the children's games - and I keep their passwords in CHS as the children tend to forget them and get upset when they can't get back to their favourite games. In those cases, resetting the password is a fallback approach, but it's a bit tedious, so CHS can be useful there.

For important/secure passwords, I otherwise leave my password entry to LastPass and ALWAYS avoid copying/keeping any passwords into/in CHS.

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2016, 01:26:36 AM »
I agree!  BUT  When I got multiple calls from frustrated employees where they had kept trying until they was locked out (which requires me to do a compete reset of their password) I started thinking just how hard could it be to do something about the stupid ASS-terisks.  It isn't like we have to share one work station among 15 employees these days.  Not many times when you would have an audience looking over your shoulder.  Although I am sure it happens.  That is why I am suggesting an option that COULD be used if you know you are NOT being "watched".  Just like the current password "eyeball" used by most major companies.

Using a hotkey to activate it when needed, it would allow a user to make SURE that the system was entering what they typed (or what they THINK typed) since they cannot confirm it except by entering it and seeing if it allows entry ...Or not.  If not... Well.  Then what?  Try-try- again apparently.  And believe me, I have had times when I KNOW I entered my password only to be told it was not correct.
By the third try , I really am not sure any more WHAT my password was or IS.

I like and use LastPass myself but.. Even LastPass has a password.  Most of these problems I feel are from typos, capslock, numlock or other keyboard entry errors.  But without a way to Know?  Who knows?

I firmly believe this is why MS finally started offering the "All Seeing EYE-con" on the password line.  The first time I saw that thing, I had no idea what it did.  It ought to be a LAW that if a program has a password it should offer a way for the User to see what is hidden behind the dots if they WANT to just to rule out a real typo from a "Who changed my password" event.  This does not make sense from a security standpoint as the problem is not that someone is trying to guess my password.  If it cant tell that it is ME trying to guess what the computer thinks I meant to type.

If typing it into notepad then pasting to the password field works  (and it does!), then the ability to do the same thing with less effort SHOULD work as well.  That is all I am trying to do.   Open notepad, type into notepad, copy what was typed into clipboard, paste clipboard contents to the waiting password field and click enter while knowing for sure what was put behind the "dots".  If I could get really good and "add" the password "EYEBALL" effect to any password field that would be the ultimate fix.

It would be MORE secure as I could be SURE of times that my password really HAS been changed and I did not do it. :'(

anandcoral

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 04:30:16 AM »
Hi questorfla,

I have faced the same situations and wanted the same things. Many a site and also some software (aka folder lock etc.) require password with capital, number and special characters which makes entering them complicated behind asterisks.

I have been locked out in two/three situation, although I can swear that I was correct still I was left swearing against the site.

I found one solution and created another one.

1. I use JC&MB Quicknote http://www.quicknote.de/quicknoteen.php and enable "Focusless input". After that when I type in the password box the letters are auto typed in the quicknote box, which I can see and confirm if it is correct or not.

2. I type the password in a new notepad window. Copy it and use Paste Text Like https://sites.google.com/site/pastetextlike/ to "Mimic Typing" on the password box, since these password box do not allow copy-paste. Then I close the notepad window without saving.

I now use the point 1 above when I am creating a new account and need to enter a new password. And the point 2 when I am entering the password in a website.

See if they can be of any help.

Regards,

Anand

Ath

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 05:48:53 AM »
What is needed is a way to activate a small on-screen text-box that would display characters as they are typed by capturing the keystrokes from the keyboard.  It would have no record keeping ability, just a line-typed display that would appear on the screen preferably near the password box but anywhere visible would do.

This feature already was built into the CP/M based Zilog Z80 CPU home-built computer I owned (not built though) about 30 years ago (I still have it, not sure if the floppies still are readable to make it boot). And I found it to be a very useful feature!
It was showing in a status-line (line 25) of the 80x24 lines graphical character display, on the top-right of the screen, just like the system status stuff of many Linux GUI's :tellme:
In the pre-internet days I kinda started something like it, but I never stayed interested inspired long enough to finish it, but I'd be interested to have smt like that now :Thmbsup:

4wd

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 07:21:37 AM »
This wasn't written by me!

This is basically a modified keylogger, it doesn't do any logging it just displays any keys typed in a Tooltip as they are typed.  As soon as you hit Escape the program terminates, (the Escape isn't passed through AFAICT), or you can use the Exit menu item on the tray icon.

The source in AutoIt is available from here (easily found otherwise with a Google search): Pastebin

I've just turned off logging, stopped it displaying [SHIFT] as a key, and stopped it displaying which window is active.

Source for the main program:
Code: AutoIt [Select]
  1. #Region ;**** Directives created by AutoIt3Wrapper_GUI ****
  2. #AutoIt3Wrapper_Outfile=D:\My Documents\AutoIt\_Coding Snacks\KeyTip\KeyTip.exe
  3. #AutoIt3Wrapper_Compression=4
  4. #AutoIt3Wrapper_Res_Fileversion=2.0.0.0
  5. #AutoIt3Wrapper_Add_Constants=n
  6. #AutoIt3Wrapper_AU3Check_Parameters=-d -w 1 -w 2 -w 3 -w 4 -w 6
  7. #EndRegion ;**** Directives created by AutoIt3Wrapper_GUI ****
  8.  
  9. #include <Misc.au3>
  10. #include "_KeyloggerUDF.au3"
  11.  
  12. Opt("TrayMenuMode", 3)
  13. Opt("TrayOnEventMode", 1)
  14.  
  15. TraySetToolTip("KeyTip")
  16. TrayCreateItem('Exit',-1,-1,0)
  17. TrayItemSetOnEvent(-1,'_Exit')
  18.  
  19. HotKeySet("{esc}", "_Exit")
  20. HotKeySet("{tab}", "_Exit")
  21. HotKeySet("{enter}", "_Exit")
  22. OnAutoItExitRegister("_Exit")
  23.  
  24. _SetHooks(True, False)
  25.  
  26.   ToolTip($__KL_CapturedKeys)
  27.   If _IsPressed("02") Then _Exit()
  28.  
  29. Func _Exit()
  30.   _SetHooks()
  31.   OnAutoItExitUnRegister("_Exit")
  32.   Exit

Lines modified in the UDF:

Line 236: Commented out
Code: Text [Select]
  1. ;~     $__KL_CapturedKeys &= @CRLF & @CRLF & "[" & WinGetTitle($hWnd) & "]" & @CRLF

Lines 282, 285, 296, 429 & 430: Changed a True to False (ie. the first Boolean value in the lines below was originally True)
Code: Text [Select]
  1. ["[ENTER]",                     False   ,       False], _               ;       13                      0000000D
  2. ["[SHIFT]",                     False   ,       False], _               ;       16                      00000010
  3. ["[ESC]",                       False   ,       False], _               ;       27                      0000001B
  4. ["[L-SHIFT]",                   False   ,       False], _               ;       160                     000000A0
  5. ["[R-SHIFT]",                   False   ,       False], _               ;       161                     000000A1

The Tooltip will appear near the mouse, eg.
P6304192.jpgDoes this exist and if not can someone write it up?

It will display things like [DELETE], [BACKSPACE], [PAUSE], etc, and it will eat things like [PRT SCN] - I had to take the screenshot with a camera - so it's pretty useless running all the time, (also because that Tooltip will just keep getting bigger).

So in it's current form it's just about the dumbest keylogger around - it doesn't log, it doesn't hide, it eats keys, and it will start obliterating the screen behind a huge Tooltip.

Source is in the archive, except the UDF which you can get from Pastebin and do the above modifications yourself.

And neither MS Defender nor MBAM complain about it.

UPDATE:
  • Removed Send('{scrolllock}') - wasn't required

UPDATE 2:
  • Exits on Escape, Enter, Tab, Right Mouse Button, and tray icon menu item (which will also cause a RMB exit).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 07:21:49 AM by 4wd »

4wd

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 08:34:19 AM »
Woops, I left a send Scroll Lock in there when I was playing around trying to use it as the hotkey.  I'll fix it tomorrow but it doesn't seem to cause any problem, (it didn't want to work for me so I went back to Escape).

mouser

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 08:46:39 AM »
Skrommel also made an app a long time ago that is similar to this, called ShowOff:

Described here:
http://www.donationc...ndex.php?topic=792.0

Note that the download link is wrong, it's now on this page: http://www.donationc...re/Skrommel/#ShowOff

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 10:18:51 PM »

I have been locked out in two/three situation, although I can swear that I was correct still I was left swearing against the site.

I found one solution and created another one.

.... I use JC&MB Quicknote http://www.quicknote.de/quicknoteen.php and enable "Focusless input".


ANAND.  I think you hit a HomeRUn on this one!
"Focusless Input"  Who made up that term>?  If I had used that to search google I woner if I could have found more like it ?
Kind of like "Pointless Questioning"  ?? :-\  BUT   :Thmbsup:  The thing works!  And hat Lady from the other day is the first one I am going to put this one on.

It took me a while to figure out all the "one letter" shortcuts but WOW!  It actually does work!  I mean it does exactly what I asked for. ( and lots more I wonder if I can remove the parts that take out the dog and the one that does the laundry?   Reminds me when people wrote those tiny "All-in-Wonder" programs  Like I Wonder who wrote this description about "focusless input"  I thought you were kidding.>?  BUT
After some experimenting (I never read manuals   8)  )

I got the small box it opens shrunk down to one line and now..   :D           everythign I type be it NAME or PASSWORD  or >>?? Whatever. it STAYS on the page no matter where I go.  !!
It's Like a piece of  carbon paper stuck to my shoe>  Perfect!       I hate the pool-table green color but I bet that can be changed.  This is as close as I can imagine anything being to exactly what I described.

My point and purpose was to get something that works exactly like "Asteriskey" before it got such a bad rep and before "THEY" fixed things to where it wont work any more.  :(
But this does and she wont ned to copy anything she just needs confirmation of what she is typing.  So part two is not even needed.  Before I put this on someone I need to play with it a little but even now, as I am typing this post, I see it echoing me over on the side.  Letter for letter  Pretty COOL!  It is a little annoying that if I back up and erase it doesn't :(  so  my typos are "memorialized" forver.
But she only need 8 characters and if one of them IS a Typo      that would be WHY her password isn't working :)
GENIUS!

FREAKY SIDE NOTE!!>> that odd green color.  I knew I had seen it before.  The Exact Program that is that User's Problem,  the lady who started all this.   Her program she was locked out of  ( an Antique Database program at that!)  ALSO uses that EXACT shade of green for their login page !!  Weird!
I just saw this and I swear they are a Color Twin!   
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:44:43 PM by questorfla »

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 10:25:36 PM »
Skrommel also made an app a long time ago that is similar to this, called ShowOff:

Described here:
http://www.donationc...ndex.php?topic=792.0

Note that the download link is wrong, it's now on this page: http://www.donationc...re/Skrommel/#ShowOff


Glad you saw that Mouser.  I found the same links.  And was SO disappointed when I clicked and found they were "deadlinks" :huh:
I had not gotten around to sending a note yet but the post was SO long ago.  Was it 2008 or before that even.  2005?
I Found it on  a Google Search though.  So somewhere "Out There" in Google-Land there is still a Search page sending people to the wrong place.  I wonder if here is a way to refresh old links for every Google Hit?
Thanks much fr the new URLs.  I am going to test that one too.  Sometimes OLD tools are the BEST tools.

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2016, 10:31:13 PM »
This feature already was built into the CP/M based Zilog Z80 CPU home-built computer I owned (not built though) about 30 years ago (I still have it, not sure if the floppies still are readable to make it boot). And I found it to be a very useful feature!
OK, ATH, You got me on that one, I have never seen what you speak of.  BUT,  I DO remember well having a Keyboard that had a small LCD window at the top that DID show exactly what the user was typing.  It was "back in the day" when the batteries in the keyboard dwere there just to power this tiny display windows.  Everything else was wired to the PS2 plug.  Or maybe even before PS2.?? A LONG time ago regardless.

I was serius going to tell her to turn on the TEXT to SPEECH until I figured it would SAY a lowercase "e" just like an UPPERCASE "E":   :-[

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 10:38:44 PM »
An4wd 4WD.  I saved you for last.  Because you never let it be said that it could not be done and done better.  Even if I dont have the slightest idea how to use what you posted  :'(  I will though :Thmbsup:
if it is more of that 'focusless' stuff, I am all-IN  for that@!!  Like BlackMagic.  That little sheet of carbon paper is STILL stuck to my shoe and folowing me around typing as I type.  I see every mistake TWICE now.  Hmmmm.......
Anyway, do I need to Download AutoIT also?  I see that you edited lines in the hundreds but only see lines to 23 in your post.  It's been a long day and isn't even Friday yet.

THANKS to everyone here for taking an interest and making a contribution to the Quest.

4wd

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2016, 11:04:52 PM »
Even if I dont have the slightest idea how to use what you posted

Download archive, extract, run program  :)

It'll keep displaying keys, (and the Tooltip will get bigger), until you hit Escape, then it terminates.  For what you want there is no need to have something running all the time.

Quote
Anyway, do I need to Download AutoIT also?

Nope, it's just there for people to peruse - it's not my source, I just modified it.

questorfla

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 11:26:55 PM »
Even if I dont have the slightest idea how to use what you posted

Download archive, extract, run program  :)

It'll keep displaying keys, (and the Tooltip will get bigger), until you hit Escape, then it terminates.  For what you want there is no need to have something running all the time.

Quote
Anyway, do I need to Download AutoIT also?

Nope, it's just there for people to peruse - it's not my source, I just modified it.
Gotacha and thanks
I zipped over to Mouser's updated link tto all of Skrommels stuff and probably download 40 before I realized that they probably dont work on Win 10 :(
'sigh'

The Good Ole' Days!

SEE!!!! I told ya if 4WD did it, he would have to do it better 

Just like Focusless Input, it is ALSO stuck to my moiuses feet.  But yours.... More like saran wrap :)  REALLLLLY tight.  And yep, every mistake I make is there to haunt me

ARGH!!    Can't shake it off!  Even says {enter} can you get rid of that too ?  BUT.  Once again, a perfect tool for the need.  Uh  maybe a right click to kill button? 

DUH!    "...........as  soon as you hit Escape the program terminates, ..........  "
Missed that one.   
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 01:10:37 AM by questorfla »

anandcoral

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2016, 03:21:08 AM »
It's Like a piece of  carbon paper stuck to my shoe>  Perfect!       I hate the pool-table green color but I bet that can be changed.  This is as close as I can imagine anything being to exactly what I described.

Happy that you found it useful.

You can change the background color by clicking on M (menu) and selecting Interface tab, see screen shot.
2016-07-01_134729.pngDoes this exist and if not can someone write it up?

Regards,

Anand


Ath

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Re: Does this exist and if not can someone write it up?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2016, 05:52:38 AM »
JC&MB Quicknote http://www.quicknote.de/quicknoteen.php and enable "Focusless input".
I tried this one, but it seems to (sometimes) inhibit the copy/paste feature in Office/Outlook, while I was using the 'Focusless input' feature :o Disabled the tool for now.