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Why GOD has not updated the world ?
Renegade:
Oh! About leaving. If God could change the laws of the universe so that all paths are mobius strips, that'd be just awesome! ;D We're talking major version upgrade here! :-*
Target:
Oh! About leaving. If God could change the laws of the universe so that all paths are mobius strips, that'd be just awesome! ;D We're talking major version upgrade here! :-*
-Renegade (January 21, 2016, 05:50 PM)
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how do you know they're not already?
Renegade:
Oh! About leaving. If God could change the laws of the universe so that all paths are mobius strips, that'd be just awesome! ;D We're talking major version upgrade here! :-*
-Renegade (January 21, 2016, 05:50 PM)
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how do you know they're not already?
-Target (January 21, 2016, 06:52 PM)
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If so, then they're too damn long. Crappy alpha! :P
40hz:
I suspect that you may have drawn that line in possibly the "wrong" place.
-IainB (January 21, 2016, 04:45 AM)
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I'm sure I'd have to agree with you about that. But I was trying not to sound too combative since it's a tender subject for a lot of people I like and respect. Even if I totally disagree with them about some things they hold dear. 8)
-40hz (January 21, 2016, 12:30 PM)
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And that's navigating that space. Even if you're sure that you're right, being able to leave it alone, as others experiences might not echo yours. After all, if you're sure you're right, then of what practical use is arguing with someone who's sure you're wrong? Are we so insecure in our beliefs (or disbeliefs) that we have to stir up something that won't make a difference either way, and will just in the end create fractious arguments? I couldn't say for all, but that, to me, seems a non-gracious approach, no matter on which side you fall.
-wraith808 (January 21, 2016, 01:18 PM)
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I personally think it's absolutely crucial we tackle uncomfortable topics from time to time. Many of the problems we are living with are a direct result of putting our heads in the sand or trying to arrange things so that nobody is made to feel uncomfortable. Truth is, I'm firmly convinced certain people need to be made acutely uncomfortable about some of the things they believe in. Especially when they advocate for others to accept and, in many cases, to obey them without question.
I have a big advantage however. I don't try to pretend (to others or myself) that I have the big answer. But I do have a brain, some life experience, and the benefit of an education that taught me to question everything and accept nothing purely because somebody said it's so.
If that bothers someone, there's plenty of other people they can talk to besides me. If you include me in a discussion however, best expect me to engage and question. And that's not because I have the answer. It's because I don't. However, I'd be very much interested in learning or discovering it. So I say "let's get it on" so to speak. Because we have a lot of work to do here.
But that's me. YMMV.
wraith808:
I suspect that you may have drawn that line in possibly the "wrong" place.
-IainB (January 21, 2016, 04:45 AM)
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I'm sure I'd have to agree with you about that. But I was trying not to sound too combative since it's a tender subject for a lot of people I like and respect. Even if I totally disagree with them about some things they hold dear. 8)
-40hz (January 21, 2016, 12:30 PM)
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And that's navigating that space. Even if you're sure that you're right, being able to leave it alone, as others experiences might not echo yours. After all, if you're sure you're right, then of what practical use is arguing with someone who's sure you're wrong? Are we so insecure in our beliefs (or disbeliefs) that we have to stir up something that won't make a difference either way, and will just in the end create fractious arguments? I couldn't say for all, but that, to me, seems a non-gracious approach, no matter on which side you fall.
-wraith808 (January 21, 2016, 01:18 PM)
--- End quote ---
I personally think it's absolutely crucial we tackle uncomfortable topics from time to time. Many of the problems we are living with are a direct result of putting our heads in the sand or trying to arrange things so that nobody is made to feel uncomfortable. Truth is, I'm firmly convinced certain people need to be made acutely uncomfortable about some of the things they believe in. Especially when they advocate for others to accept and, in many cases, to obey them without question.
I have a big advantage however. I don't try to pretend (to others or myself) that I have the big answer. But I do have a brain, some life experience, and the benefit of an education that taught me to question everything and accept nothing purely because somebody said it's so.
If that bothers someone, there's plenty of other people they can talk to besides me. If you include me in a discussion however, best expect me to engage and question. And that's not because I have the answer. It's because I don't. However, I'd be very much interested in learning or discovering it. So let's "get it on" so to speak.
-40hz (January 22, 2016, 11:06 AM)
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I'm not saying you specifically. You're willing to engage on the level that many people are not. That is, with no preconceptions of someone's belief or reason thereof. Others, on both sides, are so sure that they know the answer for everyone, that they might as well not engage at all. Questions are fine IMO. It's when you are unwilling to even consider counter arguments that might not go with your belief that discussion breaks down. Or, you're willing to denigrate others experience in the talk. There's a wide swath of difference in uncomfortable questions and dismissal or condescension. And a lot of people don't know where that difference lies- their own beliefs get in the way of them even considering that there is a difference. And that's where the big divide comes into play.
I'd love to have a reasoned and rational conversation about it, laying hubris and pre-conceptions on the altar of discussion without intent. But I've not found that place for discourse- especially online. Other than with my friends in person- most of my friends are Agnostic/Atheist, so we have some real conversations about it. Or had, as we don't really have the opportunity for it anymore. But they were really good when we did.
I don't personally believe that there are any beliefs that are dangerous nor that should be censored or censured. It's when beliefs become action that problems happen. But when you want your beliefs to be actions, that want should also translate into a willingness to have these uncomfortable lights shined on them. But... that never happens.
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