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Author Topic: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?  (Read 1839 times)

wraith808

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Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« on: October 21, 2015, 03:15:09 PM »
tinfoil_hat.jpg

I've pledged for a minimal wallet on Kickstarter: Wally Micro - The Minimal Wallet with a Few Surprises.  As always comes up in these campaigns, people asked about RFID protection.  So they did some research and a blog post: RFID: To Block – or Not To Block.  They also referred to another article: The Skimming Scam.

A quote that I think sums it up:
Quote
The real threat to credit card hacking is in the form of ATM skimmers. Thieves place readers into any ATM or point of sale device where cards are read, and all of your data is collected. For them, it's much more efficient and they can gather thorough data in large quantities this way. Unfortunately, a foil sleeve or lined wallet can't protect you from this. The good news is the U.S. is finally adopting the Euro-style chip and pin pairing called EMV cards. They've been using this across the pond for nearly a decade, and it seems to be an effective redesign for minimizing fraud.

That's been my feeling for a while, and the fact that the human factor is a big issue, i.e. carrying everything and not knowing what you're carrying with big bulky wallets.

An an interesting quote from the Slate article: If you’re going for maximum efficacy, however, few [RFID shields] work as well as simply wrapping your cards in aluminum foil.



Stoic Joker

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2015, 05:09:33 PM »
An an interesting quote from the Slate article: If you’re going for maximum efficacy, however, few [RFID shields] work as well as simply wrapping your cards in aluminum foil.

Plenty of which should be left over from making the matching hat..

(Sorry couldn't resist)

I've actually been toying with adopting this practice.

4wd

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 07:04:15 PM »
I've pledged for a minimal wallet on Kickstarter: Wally Micro - The Minimal Wallet with a Few Surprises.

Going a little off-topic, nice looking idea except the price kind of kills it - for the last 30+ years I've just been using the plastic card wallets the bank provides free as my cash/card wallet.  About 3mm a side bigger than a card and can hold up to eight.

wraith808

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2015, 08:02:57 PM »
I've pledged for a minimal wallet on Kickstarter: Wally Micro - The Minimal Wallet with a Few Surprises.

Going a little off-topic, nice looking idea except the price kind of kills it - for the last 30+ years I've just been using the plastic card wallets the bank provides free as my cash/card wallet.  About 3mm a side bigger than a card and can hold up to eight.

Yeah... I've been getting a lot of minimalist wallets as of late, and price isn't so much a factor as addiction to collecting them is :)  The cheapest I've gotten is the Dash 4.0.  The most expensive, I don't even want to talk about.  But there's quite a few choices out there, and each has its advantages and disadvantages.  I just don't like back pocket wallets anymore.

Renegade

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2015, 09:54:45 PM »
I just don't like back pocket wallets anymore.

I gave them up a few years ago. (5 I think.)

This is the wallet that I've been using ever since:



Mine's a bit worn though. :)

I put the chips of my cards down in past the metal and wrap the cash bills around the cards. 

But yes - RFID hacking is very real:



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wraith808

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 12:05:16 AM »
Oh, I know it's real.  But is it as real of a threat as the people that want to sell you RFID shielding say it is?

Deozaan

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 12:17:37 AM »
That new (to the USA) chip and PIN system for credit cards has had a known vulnerability for 5 years, which has been successfully taken advantage of in the wild:

http://www.wired.com...p-and-pin-card-hack/


wraith808

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 08:38:05 AM »
That new (to the USA) chip and PIN system for credit cards has had a known vulnerability for 5 years, which has been successfully taken advantage of in the wild:

http://www.wired.com...p-and-pin-card-hack/

That's not RFID it doesn't seem.  Or am I missing something?

Deozaan

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 06:22:56 PM »
That new (to the USA) chip and PIN system for credit cards has had a known vulnerability for 5 years, which has been successfully taken advantage of in the wild:

http://www.wired.com...p-and-pin-card-hack/

That's not RFID it doesn't seem.  Or am I missing something?

No, it's not RFID. But your quote said this:

Quote
The good news is the U.S. is finally adopting the Euro-style chip and pin pairing called EMV cards. They've been using this across the pond for nearly a decade, and it seems to be an effective redesign for minimizing fraud.

My point wasn't to comment on whether or not RFID skimming was a real and present threat, but that the "new" Chip & PIN system isn't entirely secure either.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 07:19:13 PM by Deozaan »

wraith808

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2015, 07:24:30 PM »
Ah... I just included the whole quote.  The part I really meant was that RFID wasn't an everpresent threat.

4wd

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2015, 05:33:03 AM »
Interesting that the article mentions contact-less as going out of favour in the USA whereas here, (Australia), it has become rather widespread in the last two years or so.
CnP has been around for a few years with banks in the last year or so stating that signatures are no longer required for any CC transactions.

Not particularly concerned about RFID reading of CCs since the process to get a new card/recover funds is pretty painless, (from the one time CC fraud happened to me).  Plus it's easy to check whether there's any unauthorised activity on the cards.

I'd be more concerned about protecting objects for which there is no easy way to tell if they've been compromised, eg. ePassport, access card, etc.

Josh

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Re: Are RFID Skimmers FUD? Or a real, present threat?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2015, 10:31:11 AM »
Oldie but relevant: