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Last post Author Topic: Looking for Software with this feature  (Read 6981 times)

ednja

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Looking for Software with this feature
« on: June 29, 2015, 11:22:25 PM »
I'm looking for software that will allow me to move files from one folder to another, in Windows 7, but with the ability to create filters such as the following:

Filter #1:  If the file being moved has the same name, extension and size as a file already existing in the target folder, then overwrite the existing file.

Filter #2:  If the file being moved has the same name and extension as a file already existing in the target folder, but the two files are different in size, then move the file, but keep both files.

I've spent hours checking software, including software for finding and removing duplicate files, and haven't yet found anything with this feature.   

MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 09:33:51 AM »
I would take a look at RichCopy

It was written by a Microsoft Employee so it likely has rules or filters xcopy and robocopy do not.

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 02:07:03 PM »
hi ednja,
welcome to dc :-)

in case you want more suggestions:
this board is frequented very little (it's more for topics that are considered unacceptable in the main forum), therefore it's going to get very little attention -
you'll get much more views, with better chance of more feedback, if you post in the Software forum:
http://www.donationc.../index.php?board=6.0
Tom

mouser

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 02:11:55 PM »
Tomos, I already moved it here :)

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 03:23:48 PM »
Tomos, I already moved it here :)

  :up:  :D
Tom

Curt

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 03:38:50 PM »
take a look at RichCopy

RichCopy has not been updated for 6 years, but other than looking old, it is really fine  :up:
Look for "Joshua Hoffman Code download available at: HoffmanUtilitySpotlight2009_04.exe (5,896 KB)"

dd547088.fig01_L(en-us).gif


MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 04:16:47 PM »
This link has a description of the features for RichCopy

RichCopy Tutorial

4wd

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 06:16:44 PM »
I don't think either Robocopy or RichCopy are going to help with item number 2 in the OP because neither of them can rename on file collision.

ie. 'move' and 'keep both' implies one of them needs to be renamed.

See here for an example of using Robocopy and renaming a file:
http://stackoverflow...ination-if-its-newer

Should be reasonably easy to modify one of command files I've done to cater for both conditions.

Basically, the one from here with tests for name and size, (minus the shortcut stuff):
http://www.donationc....msg377497#msg377497

But then you're talking about the ability to create filters which goes beyond a simple command file and more into the realm of a backup/sync program with multiple conditions/results.  Something similar was asked for recently and I don't think anyone came up with program that fulfilled the requirements.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 06:28:31 PM by 4wd »

MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 07:17:00 AM »
In the Other options in the help it says there can be a command to run before the copy starts.  I don't see where to specify it.  But since it is a move you could conceivably scan looking for collisions and do a rename on the target end and do the move.  Once those are all out of the way, assuming we figure out how to do the command, the regular copy process commences.  Since the source has already been deleted the collision should not recur.

ednja

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 05:52:20 PM »
Here is an example of moving a file of same name into a folder that already has a file with the same name, but the two files have a different size.  Windows 7 already determined that they have different sizes.  This is the reason why I believe it should be possible for a programmer to create a program with such a filter.

MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 05:50:46 AM »
Here is an example of moving a file of same name into a folder that already has a file with the same name, but the two files have a different size.  Windows 7 already determined that they have different sizes.  This is the reason why I believe it should be possible for a programmer to create a program with such a filter.

The trouble with coding that is you have to handle all the other cases.  Which means you have to write a file/move/copy utility from scratch.  There are already a ton of file managers for Windows.  I would search out one with the desired feature.  First place I would look is here:

http://www.techsuppo...ree-file-manager.htm

Be sure to read the user comments as they often suggest file managers that are not very well known yet.  Often they are free.

Edit: Also see xyplorer name collission handling on move:

http://www.xyplorer.com/whatsnew.php

« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 05:55:54 AM by MilesAhead »

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 04:40:35 PM »
I *think* the requests in OP could be done with Syncovery (formerly SFFS - syncing & backup software).
Can check tomorrow on desktop.
Disadvantage is you would need to set it up a sync 'job'.

I'd love some kind of manual & very flexible copy/sync programme myself, where these things could be done on the fly, but I haven't really looked at any of the copy programmes out there...  I use Dopus as file manager & love it, but copy/move is limited at times I find.                                                
Tom

MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 04:48:12 PM »
I *think* the requests in OP could be done with Syncovery (formerly SFFS - syncing & backup software).
Can check tomorrow on desktop.
Disadvantage is you would need to set it up a sync 'job'.

I'd love some kind of manual & very flexible copy/sync programme myself, where these things could be done on the fly, but I haven't really looked at any of the copy programmes out there...  I use Dopus as file manager & love it, but copy/move is limited at times I find.                                                

I was just looking at Dopus.  Since so many here love it I will run the trial and see if it grabs me.  The other approach, which may be a bit drastic, would be to find an open source file manager or copy program and add the feature.  But that could be a whole lot of work.  Especially if it needs a certain compiler that is not even installed etc..

Edit: Or find something on Sourceforge and request the feature be added.


IainB

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2015, 04:33:16 AM »
I was following up on @MilesAhead's comment which had caught my interest as I had not previously tried out RichCopy:
I would take a look at RichCopy
It was written by a Microsoft Employee so it likely has rules or filters xcopy and robocopy do not.
______________________________

RichCopy looked to have some uniquely useful functionality, so I have downloaded and installed it - thanks for the tip!    :Thmbsup:

Now I might be missing something here, so I apologise in advance if I have it wrong, but since I had only skimmed over the OP and had not actually read it fully, I thought I should at least try and understand it, so I read about the requirement for the two Filters:

...
  • Filter #1:  If the file being moved has the same name, extension and size as a file already existing in the target folder, then overwrite the existing file.

  • Filter #2:  If the file being moved has the same name and extension as a file already existing in the target folder, but the two files are different in size, then move the file, but keep both files.

______________________________

On reading the OP, it occurred to me that the requirement in Filter #1 would seem to be redundant, since, if a file about to be moved had the same name, extension and size as a file already existing in the target folder, then there would be no need to move it and overwrite the existing file in the target, and thus you would leave it as-is.

"Size" could be a potentially unreliable comparison, so I would recommend using "Content" instead.
What could be useful, therefore, would be to verify whether files in the source directory with identical name/extension to files in the target directory were actually identical in content (~size), and only overwrite/copy (one way or the other) if the content were different and perhaps depending on the date. I would use a file checksum comparison between the two.
Normally this would seem to be a kinda paranoid check, but I actually do it when verifying my archived (backup) files, and it's a piece of cake to do it using xplorer². In the example below, I've just used two panes showing views of two folders - Source and Target - but xplorer² could enable the user to run this verification whilst syncing nested Source directories (plural) and the corresponding nested Target directories, in the LHS and RHS panes, respectively. This would only apply where the directory trees were identical. You could also use flat files to get a view of the scale of the overall problem.

xplorer² - unique file differences comparison.png


The above also gives you the files for Filter #2, so that you can then copy/move all those (already auto-selected) in the Source folder into the Target folder, keeping the names in the Target, but automatically incrementing by +1 for the newly-copied/moved files, so nothing in the Target folder will have been overwritten/destroyed. However, it would probably be preferable to use a backup tool (e.g. something with versioning, like FreeFileSync) for this, so that the Target file name remained unchanged, and the older version was moved to a version folder.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 04:38:45 AM by IainB »

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2015, 04:41:41 AM »
Filter #1:  If the file being moved has the same name, extension and size as a file already existing in the target folder, then overwrite the existing file.

Filter #2:  If the file being moved has the same name and extension as a file already existing in the target folder, but the two files are different in size, then move the file, but keep both files.

I *think* the requests in OP could be done with Syncovery (formerly SFFS - syncing & backup software).
Can check tomorrow on desktop.
Disadvantage is you would need to set it up a sync 'job'.                                            

No, I checked, and Syncovery does not seem to be able to do both of these.
The relevant choices for move are shown below - it's not as detailed as you want (only one choice possible in this dialogue)

Screenshot - 2015-07-03 , 11_33_45.png

edit: to be honest, I find the options here in Syncovery not fully clear - it doesnt in this dialogue differentiate between identical and different files. I find it a little confusing...
Tom

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2015, 05:15:53 AM »
Dopus also does a reasonably advanced sync - and could be used as IainB suggests with xplorer2
but I dont know if sync or backup is what is required @ednja ?
Tom

MilesAhead

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2015, 01:00:10 PM »
"Size" could be a potentially unreliable comparison, so I would recommend using "Content" instead.
What could be useful, therefore, would be to verify whether files in the source directory with identical name/extension to files in the target directory were actually identical in content (~size), and only overwrite/copy (one way or the other) if the content were different and perhaps depending on the date. I would use a file checksum comparison between the two.

I think there are likely duplicate file finders that would get rid of the unwanted sources by doing a hash if the sizes matched.  I just don't know the names of any.  The "keep both" case is kind of a pain.  I haven't looked at dupe file utilities to see exactly what features are available.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2015, 02:39:26 PM »

I'm wondering why file size matters, because wouldn't the date be off by even a few seconds if it's two different copies of a file? Even in a high speed automated "log.txt" or something updated and then aggressively backed up, do any of the options above change context if it doesn't need to know the file size (or maybe checksum, because for ex someone opens a text file and then say MS Word adds a line break it's now different.)


IainB

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2015, 07:58:07 PM »
"Size" could be a potentially unreliable comparison, so I would recommend using "Content" instead.
What could be useful, therefore, would be to verify whether files in the source directory with identical name/extension to files in the target directory were actually identical in content (~size), and only overwrite/copy (one way or the other) if the content were different and perhaps depending on the date. I would use a file checksum comparison between the two.
__________________________
I think there are likely duplicate file finders that would get rid of the unwanted sources by doing a hash if the sizes matched.  I just don't know the names of any.  The "keep both" case is kind of a pain.  I haven't looked at dupe file utilities to see exactly what features are available.
__________________________

Yes, but I was not advocating a "keep both" policy. I can see what you mean above, but my point was purely about verification of data BEFORE the irretrievable operation of the duplicate "master" in Source being written over the same file in Target and then deleted from Source. This would be regardless of what happened to the Source master file later - e.g., if the files had identical content, then the duplicate in Target would remain untouched and the master in Source could remain untouched or simply be deleted from Source if housekeeping no longer required it to remain there.

Verification is essential:[ If the files had been identified as "identical files" in terms of filename/date/size, they still might not be identical, in fact, and so a content (checksum) comparison could verify that one way or the other.
For example, a corrupted file would give a different checksum, and if you got a different checksum in one file, then you would need to inspect both files to establish which was the uncorrupted one, and then use that as the "master".
If the presumed "identical" Source and Target files had identical content, then "moving" the Source file to the Target (per Filter #1 in the OP) would be a redundant (unnecessary) and ill-advised action, for two reasons:
  • (a) efficiency, resource utilisation and workload: it would unnecessarily use computing resources (read-write) and add time to the operation for apparently no good reason whatsoever.
  • (b) risk and data validation workload: if the two files have been established as being identical in content (checksum), and one is then overwritten by the other, then it would introduce the potential risk of a "bad" or corrupted write over an uncorrupted file (why would you do that?), and to avoid that would necessitate using a robust and unnecessary/inefficient (QED) write - "robust meaning "read after write" - thus using more computer resources and adding time to the process.

4wd

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 08:56:21 PM »
I'm wondering why file size matters, because wouldn't the date be off by even a few seconds if it's two different copies of a file?

Which date are you referring to?

Each file/folder has three: Created, Modified, Accessed

The Created date is the most unlikely to change so if you're just looking to match a date, name, and size, with no requirement as to contents then that is the one you'd most likely choose.  However, if you're wanting to merge two backups of the same files then you'd probably go for Modified.

And as an example to your question: Sync folders by renaming files

@DyNama only wanted to match on size, date, time and extension - it all depends on the requirements.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2015, 09:03:26 PM »

Oh, good catch about corrupted data Iain, and I see now the themes. So checksum is fine I suppose.


IainB

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2015, 09:21:04 PM »
I'm wondering why file size matters, because wouldn't the date be off by even a few seconds if it's two different copies of a file? Even in a high speed automated "log.txt" or something updated and then aggressively backed up, do any of the options above change context if it doesn't need to know the file size (or maybe checksum, because for ex someone opens a text file and then say MS Word adds a line break it's now different.)
_______________________

The OP refers to file "name, extension and size", but file size is generally an unreliable/imprecise basis for file comparison, whereas content (checksum) is pretty definitive as a data analysis tool.
You seem to have conflated "time" with "size", and yes, "time" is also an imprecise basis for file comparison - mainly because of the different and inconsistent time-stamping standards applied by different file operations and file management tools.
Where you say "...do any of the options above change context if it doesn't need to know the file size (or maybe checksum, because for ex someone opens a text file and then say MS Word adds a line break it's now different.)" my response would be that the OP apparently has a redundant requirement in Filter #1 (QED) and that my comments would seem to indicate that "size" is irrelevant (QED) and "checksum" is an imperative for file validation when housekeeping in cases such as this. It's not my opinion, it's just Computer Operations Housekeeping Best Practice 101 and is typically the sort of thing that would be drilled into you in programmer training if you worked for a computer company. It is also strongly justified as being a forensic and prudent measure in its own right.
And yes, the checksum comparison would show a difference between file A and file B, where file B was the result where (say) "...someone opens a text file and then say MS Word adds a line break it's now different.", but that's not the case here. In this case, A and B are apparently identical in ""name, extension and size" and presumed identical, but we know that size is unreliable and so we need to verify whether they are identical in fact, and the only valid test we have there is whether they are the same in content (checksum). Sure, a difference could be attributable to (say)
  • (a) file corruption on write, or after having been written (e.g., if there had been a disk surface or other media degradation),
  • (b) a virus infection update,
  • (c) an MS Word update of the type you describe.
- but in this case I think there is an implicit assumption that the possibilities for (b) and/or (c) would have been eliminated before this backup amalgamation/rationalisation stage. However, if that is an invalid assumption, then the problem expands to one of entire database verification and validation, prior to going further with backup amalgamation/rationalisation. You have to start with clean source data otherwise you can forget about backups as they become largely irrelevant.
My understanding from the OP is that the files in Source are effectively taken as being the clean master version of the files in Filter #1, and any duplicate files in Target are some kind of copy (e.g., backup copy) of the master files.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 09:39:54 PM by IainB, Reason: Minor edits. »

IainB

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2015, 09:55:06 PM »
Dopus also does a reasonably advanced sync - and could be used as IainB suggests with xplorer2
but I dont know if sync or backup is what is required @ednja ?
_________________________

First off, I have suggested that the redundancy in Filter #1 be addressed/eliminated.
Second, whether what is required is "sync" or "backup" would probably depend on the definition of those terms.
In any event, I was not advocating either "sync" or "backup" per se at all, it was merely that the image I posted showed xplorer²'s two-pane Sync Wizard's options (filter) being used (used with other settable filters, it's a very powerful tool for comparing/amalgamating files in separate directories/media).

superboyac

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2015, 10:25:34 PM »
real quick, i didn't read too intensely...
syncovery has enough features where it might be able to do it.

also, something called "hygeia" can do stuff like this.

tomos

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Re: Looking for Software with this feature
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2015, 04:41:52 PM »
Dopus also does a reasonably advanced sync - and could be used as IainB suggests with xplorer2
but I dont know if sync or backup is what is required @ednja ?
_________________________

First off, I have suggested that the redundancy in Filter #1 be addressed/eliminated.
Second, whether what is required is "sync" or "backup" would probably depend on the definition of those terms.
In any event, I was not advocating either "sync" or "backup" per se at all, it was merely that the image I posted showed xplorer²'s two-pane Sync Wizard's options (filter) being used (used with other settable filters, it's a very powerful tool for comparing/amalgamating files in separate directories/media).

yes, points taken.

I was also at the time thinking that I had been recommending sync software (very flexible sync software, but still), and was hoping @ednja would chime in with some more info (and general feedback on suggestions made).
Tom