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The return of Clippy! Microsoft says more about their digital assistant Cortana
app103:
So, what does that mean? It's ok when a large corporation creates software that spies on you and collects data for marketing purposes, but not ok when smaller companies create less advanced software, capable of collecting less info, for the same purpose?
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 04:15 PM)
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*cough* Java *cough*
It has been annoying me for a while that it can bundle the ask toolbar with it by default selected, and no one calls them on it...
-wraith808 (February 12, 2015, 04:45 PM)
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I am talking more about things like the Ask toolbar, itself. Why is that considered unacceptable malware/spyware/adware and things like Cortana, Siri, and Google Now are not? There was quite a few applications in the first generation of this type of software that were quite useful and users went out of their way to install, that collected data on it's users for marketing purposes (Go!Zilla, Flashget, Copernic Shopper, Gator, ZipUpTheWeb, WeatherBug, etc). Why is the new generation of big corporate spyware considered acceptable and not held up to the same standards as the old stuff was subjected to, and that stuff from smaller companies is still subjected to?
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 06:16 PM)
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Well, yes, the ask toolbar is bad. But it is even worse in that it's being bundled with Java. Like all of these companies are in bed with each other to erode the consciousness of the average consumer to the point where this kind of thing is commonplace and accepted.
-wraith808 (February 12, 2015, 06:40 PM)
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I will agree that the Ask toolbar is bad, more because of how it ends up on a user's system. But would someone that actually went to the Ask website and willingly downloaded and installed the toolbar, because they wanted it, feel the same way? There are plenty of people that I know that have gone out of their way to install the Alexa toolbar, which is in the same category. Yes, both are spyware. But they are not more spyware-ish than the Google toolbar ever was, and that toolbar was never flagged by spyware removers.
I willingly downloaded and installed Flashget, and even paid for it (for ad removal), and later on had to tell my anti-spyware software to ignore it and not remove it from my system.
Same with Copernic Shopper (which I miss), and Gator (I used to be a freebie hunter and had to fill out a lot of forms on a daily basis. Gator made it quick & easy, and was the only software like it, that I could find at the time).
All of these were flagged by anti-spyware apps for good reasons...but the new spyware by big companies like Google, Microsoft, and Apple are not held to the same standards as these apps were, and they are no less spyware than the old stuff was, and in some ways they are even worse.
And that is my point.
The crapware that gets bundled with things like Java is a completely different discussion, because that stuff does get detected and removed by anti-spyware.
When was the last time you saw Spybot S&D or Malwarebytes flag and offer to remove iTunes, Quicktime, Google toolbar, etc. And what is the likelihood that they will ever offer to deactivate/neuter Cortana for you?
wraith808:
The crapware that gets bundled with things like Java is a completely different discussion, because that stuff does get detected and removed by anti-spyware.
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 07:13 PM)
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It actually doesn't. The ask toolbar isn't considered to be malware, at least by any of the scanners that I use. At most, it's flagged as questionable. The official Java installer installs the Ask toolbar. And Oracle is just as large as the other players. And no one says anything about it.
40hz:
When was the last time you saw Spybot S&D or Malwarebytes flag and offer to remove iTunes, Quicktime, Google toolbar, etc. And what is the likelihood that they will ever offer to deactivate/neuter Cortana for you?
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 07:13 PM)
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If they ever did try, I'd expect Microsoft would simply remove them instead. Probably with their Malicious Software Removal Tool which runs as part of the regular "security updates" maintenance cycle.
You can get heavy with 3rd-party apps that try to do things you don't like. But it's considerably harder to do that with something the OS developer included and billed as "a feature" for their OS. Try to remove something like that and you're suddenly in that awkward position where you run the risk being classified as malware yourself. Microsoft has the last word about what is and what isn't malware. It's their operating system. They own it. So they get to define the parameters.
wraith808:
When was the last time you saw Spybot S&D or Malwarebytes flag and offer to remove iTunes, Quicktime, Google toolbar, etc. And what is the likelihood that they will ever offer to deactivate/neuter Cortana for you?
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 07:13 PM)
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If they ever did try, I'd expect Microsoft would simply remove them instead. Probably with their Malicious Software Removal Tool which runs as part of the regular "security updates" maintenance cycle.
You can get heavy with 3rd-party apps that try to do things you don't like. But it's considerably harder to do that with something the OS developer included and billed as "a feature" for their OS. Try to remove something like that and you're suddenly in that awkward position where you run the risk being classified as malware yourself. Microsoft has the last word about what is and what isn't malware. It's their operating system. They own it. So they get to define the parameters.
-40hz (February 12, 2015, 07:47 PM)
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Which was another point of control built into their 'kind' offer of anti-virus software... :-\
app103:
The crapware that gets bundled with things like Java is a completely different discussion, because that stuff does get detected and removed by anti-spyware.
-app103 (February 12, 2015, 07:13 PM)
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It actually doesn't. The ask toolbar isn't considered to be malware, at least by any of the scanners that I use. At most, it's flagged as questionable. The official Java installer installs the Ask toolbar. And Oracle is just as large as the other players. And no one says anything about it.
-wraith808 (February 12, 2015, 07:37 PM)
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Also, Oracle didn't make the Ask toolbar, while Apple did make iTunes and Siri, Google did make the Google toolbar and the Chrome browser, and Microsoft did make Cortana, and a ton of other crap that I can't recall at this moment.
While Oracle can be blamed for bundling questionable software and with the way they present it in their installer, they can't be blamed for what the Ask toolbar actually contains or does.
Should anti-malware prevent you from installing Java or deactivate/remove Java if it is found on your system? Or just the Ask toolbar, which is not Oracle's product? That is the difference.
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