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Internet of Things thread (IoT)
wraith808:
Would you connect those devices to, say, your phone?
-Deozaan (October 24, 2015, 06:50 PM)
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No. So I guess that answering the rest is rendered moot?
When I say I wouldn't connect those things... I really mean it. And though I don't understand everything in regards to the security, I do know enough to prevent corruption of the non-connected method via other connections. I don't care what advantages I'd get from doing it, unless I could be sure that it was totally inviolate, I wouldn't. Which you can't be sure of. So I don't.
Renegade:
Would you connect those devices to, say, your phone?
-Deozaan (October 24, 2015, 06:50 PM)
--- End quote ---
No. So I guess that answering the rest is rendered moot?
When I say I wouldn't connect those things... I really mean it. And though I don't understand everything in regards to the security, I do know enough to prevent corruption of the non-connected method via other connections. I don't care what advantages I'd get from doing it, unless I could be sure that it was totally inviolate, I wouldn't. Which you can't be sure of. So I don't.
-wraith808 (October 24, 2015, 07:45 PM)
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I'm on board there about not connecting things, but I'm also not sure how long that option will exist if you want to have a fridge or washing machine.
Just look at cars now. They're all jammed full of computers. If you want a car that can't be hacked, you're going to have to get an older one, and probably one prior to 1996 (or round abouts).
I think all of this will be rammed down our throats just like cars have.
What will happen is some tool will start screaming about how fridges and washing machines need to be more environmentally friendly and CO2 blah blah blah. They manufacturers will have legislation rammed down their throats and will have to build in computers that monitor electricity usage, etc. etc.
Then some douchewad will propose legislation to track electricity usage for household appliances, etc. etc. All appliances will need to report to Big Brother about their electricity consumption. Those that don't have reports will have the Green Police show up at their house telling them that their old appliances are no longer legal and that they have to get new ones that spy on them.
While that may sound a bit over the top, it's probably not that far from what we'll actually see in reality.
"Choice" is the enemy of the control freak, and that's what we're seeing now. Those choices will be removed one way or another.
Shades:
Start using an old PC as a router (make sure it has 2 good NIC's) for your home. Router software such as Untangle and pfSense are perfectly able to block whatever communication takes place between IoT devices and the outside world. You know, in case you don't care about IoT, but aren't able to buy whatever device you need without IoT.-Shades (October 24, 2015, 08:20 AM)
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Could Untangle run on something like a Raspberry Pi (or the more powerful Odroids)? That would be very low cost in both terms of the hardware and the electricity to run them.
-Deozaan (October 24, 2015, 06:50 PM)
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You need at least 2 NIC's for any piece of router software. One NIC is for the internet signal (WAN), the other NIC is for your network (LAN).
The computational strengths of a RaspBerry Pi 2 should indeed be sufficient, but according to this forum post and this link I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Besides, to my knowledge any version of the RPi comes with 1 NIC only. Adding another NIC to its USB ports is not advised, because that type of NIC usually depends on a lot on the Windows operating system to function properly. However, if you know of a similar device that has already proven itself to run FreeBSD, you will have a much higher chance of success.
Shades:
In... just don't. I like the idea of IoT. But the most secure way of engaging in IoT is... don't.
-wraith808 (October 24, 2015, 02:14 PM)
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On this we completely agree.
Maybe I am too grim here, but are you sure this is still an option 10 years from now? Because through planned obsolescence you are likely to have such devices in your house sooner than later. Heck, If you have millennials running around that time may come even sooner than you expect.
And with the understanding and insights you gain by deploying tools such as pfSense, you will have a better chance at stopping the flow of information either completely or to just a trickle. For most cases there is the thing: information that is easy to come by, will be easily processed (by everyone). Information that hard to come by, will hardly be processed (by anyone). When others need to spend a lot of money on hardware and know-how to get only a minimal amount of data, it is not worth the effort in most cases.
And if you are really paranoid, finding ways to introduce false information to the mix could be helpful to make the data that one does manage to capture unreliable.
Install pfSense into a virtual machine and take a look for yourself to see all the options it provides to manage the flow of information coming and going to your network. I'll bet you will be positively surprised by the level of control you can have.
With all of the above, I have no doubt that anyone with enough desire to get the information they want, will get it by whichever means necessary. My first comment was intended to show that if you care enough about the negative implications of IoT you can make it a (hell of a) lot harder for interested parties to do so.
And if you are big into pro-IoT, that is fine too. In that case it can still be a good idea to get a pfSense router in your network, but then you can set it up to make your IoT devices and/or protocols and/or applications and/or IoT-related apps have priority over all traffic generated on your network. With pfSense you can already do Software Defined Networking (a new protocol to apply your available network bandwidth (LAN and WAN) where it is needed most at any given moment automatically).
Personally, when the time comes I have to buy an IoT device I would not go so far put up Faraday cages and what not. But do expect me to shape the traffic that flows in and out my network as I see fit. The thing is that, when asked (friendly) about a subject, I am friendly enough to provide you with an honest answer about that subject. It is the unlimited snooping around by "anyone and their grandmother" that I seriously dislike and because of this I will use tools to prevent this as much as my ability allows me to do.
Stoic Joker:
Information that hard to come by, will hardly be processed (by anyone). When others need to spend a lot of money on hardware and know-how to get only a minimal amount of data, it is not worth the effort in most cases.-Shades (October 25, 2015, 08:28 AM)
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I'm not so sure about that, as it's usually the fringe that's the most dangerous. All information is useful, so the harder a specific piece of information is to get...the higher its value will be to the right vertical market. So as this nightmare gets closer to critical mass there will be an in veritable stampede of dot com bubble level hopefuls clamoring for the hottest vertical market for whatever bits of information they've managed to pry out of people.
All you need is an angle, a database, and a must have widget that can/will/does keep the listings fresh enough for market..
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