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Of Superheroes, Remakes, Flashbacks/Forwards/Sideways and more
wraith808:
Where would you classify characters like the modern Batman and Iron Man? Wayne and Stark are both normal humans. Perhaps a lot more technologically sophisticated and wealthy than most people. But their 'super' powers derive mainly from the technology and powered bodysuits they employ. If they have any super power it's their high IQs.
-40hz (November 20, 2014, 08:38 PM)
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I posted a video that has a funny... but relevant line in it to the silly humor thread. Namely, Drax tells Batman you should be called normal man in a suit that looks vaguely like a bat. And in all truth, as much as I love the Batman as a character, his real superpower is the audience's suspension of disbelief, and a lot of cool. Either that, or he actually does have powers. Because he does a *lot* that a normal human, no matter how well trained, cannot do.
-wraith808 (November 20, 2014, 09:06 PM)
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He's not a "normal" human. He's closer to a western version of a gifted natural martial arts talent from China etc.
So while his body could "almost make sense" to a doctor in a hospital if he overdoes it, he doesn't exactly have super-powers, not something that he can just whip out and pummel disbelief with. Instead, it's more like "a grown-up prodigy". (For ex, ever seen those types? You play a 3 minute piece of music four times and they can play it note perfect?)
-TaoPhoenix (November 20, 2014, 09:15 PM)
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Even a gifted natural martial arts talent could not do a fraction of what he does in all truth. And the cross-section of all the things that he is incredibly gifted in- it's not just physical.
TaoPhoenix:
Where would you classify characters like the modern Batman and Iron Man? Wayne and Stark are both normal humans. Perhaps a lot more technologically sophisticated and wealthy than most people. But their 'super' powers derive mainly from the technology and powered bodysuits they employ. If they have any super power it's their high IQs.
-40hz (November 20, 2014, 08:38 PM)
--- End quote ---
I posted a video that has a funny... but relevant line in it to the silly humor thread. Namely, Drax tells Batman you should be called normal man in a suit that looks vaguely like a bat. And in all truth, as much as I love the Batman as a character, his real superpower is the audience's suspension of disbelief, and a lot of cool. Either that, or he actually does have powers. Because he does a *lot* that a normal human, no matter how well trained, cannot do.
-wraith808 (November 20, 2014, 09:06 PM)
--- End quote ---
He's not a "normal" human. He's closer to a western version of a gifted natural martial arts talent from China etc.
So while his body could "almost make sense" to a doctor in a hospital if he overdoes it, he doesn't exactly have super-powers, not something that he can just whip out and pummel disbelief with. Instead, it's more like "a grown-up prodigy". (For ex, ever seen those types? You play a 3 minute piece of music four times and they can play it note perfect?)
-TaoPhoenix (November 20, 2014, 09:15 PM)
--- End quote ---
Even a gifted natural martial arts talent could not do a fraction of what he does in all truth. And the cross-section of all the things that he is incredibly gifted in- it's not just physical.
-wraith808 (November 20, 2014, 09:29 PM)
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Granted to you. I'll leave you expertise as the upper in this discussion! : )
TaoPhoenix:
The older one was not well done- we'd not entered into the time where writers on superhero shows/movies realized one important element. They have to be good shows/movies with a good plot first. There are some decent analyses of the episodes on avclub.com that deconstruct them and the underlying themes therein. There are some (several) points I disagree with... but it does inspire conversation and thought.
-wraith808 (November 20, 2014, 11:07 AM)
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I think this is a bit slippery - "we stand on the shoulders of who has come before".
I think the first version isn't the worst TV series ever to emerge in 1990 ... So 24 years later, sure it looks better ...
It's like we gave Star Trek a one-time-pass to look awful first time around, and few other series since. Not that I am a Flash fan, but just sayin', we don't give very many other shows that kind of second chance.
Back to the Flash theme, it's important to note the first version spent half its time trying to stay "domestic" without the "meta-human" side of things ... filling in gaps of normal (for then) police work. The new version gives the police its due and races to solve meta-human episodes.
wraith808:
Back to the Flash theme, it's important to note the first version spent half its time trying to stay "domestic" without the "meta-human" side of things ... filling in gaps of normal (for then) police work.
-TaoPhoenix (November 20, 2014, 11:46 PM)
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And personally, I think this was the problem, and was what my statement was addressing. There are two warring concepts:
1. People watch superhero shows for the fantastical. Just as people watch procedural shows for the procedure, suspense shows for the suspense, etc. Agents of SHIELD had this problem during its first season. It was a spy/superhero show. But it had neither. The reason, of course we see in hindsight, is that they were treading water waiting for Captain America: Winter Soldier to drop. Then it turned into a completely different (actual) spy/superhero show.
2. People watch entertainment to be entertained. To be entertaining, you have to have certain elements. And the group of people that you have to appeal to in order to have a successful movie/TV show is a lot greater than the people that are usually attracted to your genre. When you only have a group of people that like to watch your genre watching? You end up with a cancelled series/flop of a movie that's labeled 'cult'.
Renegade:
(Tangent: It's one reason I thought Warehouse 13 was brilliant in concept, because the people mostly stayed people, and it's the objects that wandered around and did strange (and usually dangerous) stuff. )
-TaoPhoenix (November 20, 2014, 09:58 AM)
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The original was the "Friday the 13th" show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th:_The_Series
Warehouse 13 just rehashed the same thing. (Most good stories do that.) The people concepts tend to be pretty simple.
-TaoPhoenix (November 20, 2014, 09:58 AM)
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True...however...
Where would you classify characters like the modern Batman and Iron Man? Wayne and Stark are both normal humans. Perhaps a lot more technologically sophisticated and wealthy than most people. But their 'super' powers derive mainly from the technology and powered bodysuits they employ. If they have any super power it's their high IQs.
Or Doc Savage? His powers derive mainly from a physical and mental developmental training program that started when he was conceived. No super anything with Doc. The implication is he's just a more 'realized' human potential. And that what he is, you could be too.
Where do these characters fit into the general superhero continuum?
-40hz (November 20, 2014, 08:38 PM)
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Check the GURPS or Palladium or Heroes RPG systems. They work very well. :)
Many other systems also have the same situation.
I think I'd like a polar bear with shape shifting, mimic, transferal possession, and a specialization in snake style kung-fu. Oh, and for psionics, we'll go with mind trap and bio-manipulation.
In the Palladium world... that's just friggin' SICK! :D A TMNT martial artist with super-powers? Yeah... move over... :P
Sigh... haven't played in many years now, but I sure as heck know how to game the system and make the most disgustingly powerful characters you've ever seen. :P ;D
But just think of these characters in terms of some gaming systems or worlds.
Call of Cthulhu anyone?
There are 3 systems where it doesn't matter what your character is:
1) Call of Cthulhu - they all go mad & die
2) Paranoia - they all die
3) kill puppies for satan - uh, yeah... they die too
:D
Movies are little different. With numbering from above:
1) All horror movies
2) All sci-fi horror movies
3) All comedy horror movies
:P
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