Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • September 29, 2016, 06:49:16 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: The Emergency Broadcast System ?  (Read 7141 times)

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« on: October 28, 2014, 07:38:34 AM »
In the US the Emergency Broadcast System *tests* have been around since the old duck-and-cover days and equally useful... IMO.  Teats on a boar?  :-\

Useless or not... shouldn't there be an Internet version as well?  Where most eye balls are these days?

Maybe an annoying crawler that can be stopped or turned off?
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,214
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 08:43:22 AM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 08:56:37 AM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.

How would radio waves inform anyone if they are staring at a computer screen or cell phone?

The internet is already clogged with useless crap... why not a little more?
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 09:18:53 AM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.

How would radio waves inform anyone if they are staring at a computer screen or cell phone?

The internet is already clogged with useless crap... why not a little more?

I can see it now.. Alert!  This is not a test!  This is not a drill!  Emergency information vital to your survival is available now.  But first please update to the most recent version of your browser.  :)

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 09:21:32 AM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.

How would radio waves inform anyone if they are staring at a computer screen or cell phone?

The internet is already clogged with useless crap... why not a little more?

I can see it now.. Alert!  This is not a test!  This is not a drill!  Emergency information vital to your survival is available now.  But first please update to the most recent version of your browser.  :)


 ;D   :Thmbsup:
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,265
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 11:50:42 AM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.

How would radio waves inform anyone if they are staring at a computer screen or cell phone?

The internet is already clogged with useless crap... why not a little more?

I can see it now.. Alert!  This is not a test!  This is not a drill!  Emergency information vital to your survival is available now.  But first please update to the most recent version of your browser.  :)

Somebody's on a roll. :)


This-Is-Not-a-Drill.jpg

SeraphimLabs

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 497
  • Be Ready
    • View Profile
    • SeraphimLabs
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 11:55:14 AM »
In the US the Emergency Broadcast System *tests* have been around since the old duck-and-cover days and equally useful... IMO.  Teats on a boar?  :-\

Useless or not... shouldn't there be an Internet version as well?  Where most eye balls are these days?

Maybe an annoying crawler that can be stopped or turned off?

Someone would very quickly write up a blocker to can it.

Most of the time though news travels faster over the internet than it does over older types of media- for instance the shootings in Canada recently I heard about it first from people online before the news here even made mention of it.
 
Consider too, the majority of the broadcast alerts I've heard on the radio are local or regional alerts issued by the National Weather Service to warn of severe weather in the area. An EBS broadcast transmitted the same way would very quickly prompt people to google "local news", which would right away direct them to their local news stations and the emergency notice that they might not have heard the first time. Radio isn't completely obsolete after all, it still holds a lot of ground in the workplace because it allows people to keep up with news and weather as well as rocking out while they get things done.

And you factor in social networks too- someone hears a tornado warning their facebook now says OMG TORNADO WATCH OUT.
People see this and check their own weather to see if they are in danger as well.


Also, services like this already exist. http://www.emergency...g/PublicServices.asp

When a situation arises that would require the EBS or would trigger a NOAA alert, third party services already exist that send email notices containing the alert. With many people's phones able to recieve emails, this would be highly effective to notify a lot of people right away of a developing situation or a hazard they need to take shelter against.

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 12:36:15 PM »
You can't have an EMS on something like the Internet as the Internet doesn't guarantee transmission.

Radio waves are more reliable. Blah. Stuff like that.

How would radio waves inform anyone if they are staring at a computer screen or cell phone?

The internet is already clogged with useless crap... why not a little more?

I can see it now.. Alert!  This is not a test!  This is not a drill!  Emergency information vital to your survival is available now.  But first please update to the most recent version of your browser.  :)


This is not a test   :)

funny-exam-answers-clever.jpg
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 12:54:53 PM »

« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 01:00:52 PM by MilesAhead »

SeraphimLabs

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 497
  • Be Ready
    • View Profile
    • SeraphimLabs
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 01:01:55 PM »
Also just found this on wikipedia

Quote
In 2008, the FCC began work on another system for public alerting designed and targeted at smartphones, meant to support the EAS. The Commercial Mobile Alert System made its debut in about early 2013 in select states for select events.

Apparently the FCC has already been working on addressing this for some time. So far I haven't heard of anything practical yet other than possibly an email alert or an app that pops up when it receives an alert.

http://en.wikipedia....ergency_Alert_System was the page I found it on, this details the current alert system

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 01:03:32 PM »
Quote
This is not a test
 Most answers seem logical to me.  :)

If I ever wrote a multiple choice test A would always be None of the Above.

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 01:05:08 PM »
Quote
This is not a drill.

You sure know how to hammer your point home.  I'd say you nailed it nicely.  :)

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,763
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 02:14:26 PM »
In CT they activated the EBS at one point during Hurricane Sandy. It was a "take cover" announcement.

Most of the people who received the alert (because they still had power as opposed to the rest of us) bitched because it kept popping up over the TV show they were watching.

Radio is ok. Internet...meh!

I still think the old fashioned mechanical SD-10 air raid sirens that went off at noon every Saturday post WWII till about 1980 were the most reliable. (A steady siren meant: "alert" A rising and falling tone meant: "Sit down; face the nearest concrete wall; put head between legs - kiss ass goodbye!" as the saying went.

At least with those you could always hook a gas engine or car battery up to them (by design) and get them to work. If the grid is down, all the technology in the world becomes nothing but inert PC boards stuffed with electronics.

---------------------

@Miles - Those were the bad old days weren't they? Remember when the two civil defense radio frequencies were marked with a CD logo right on the AM dial of every radio sold in the USA?

hallic_s53a_dial_with_cd.jpg

« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 03:03:01 PM by 40hz »

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 02:22:30 PM »
Quote
@Miles - Those were the bad old days weren't they? Remember when the two civil defense radio frequencies were marked with a CD logo right on the AM dial of every radio sold in the USA?

I totally forgot about that until you mentioned it.  I remember the siren tests though.  In the Catholic elementary school I attended "duck and cover" was no easy task since the desks and chairs were bolted to the floor.  Those nuns didn't take any chances on us getting out of line.  :)

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 02:30:50 PM »
Quote
@Miles - Those were the bad old days weren't they? Remember when the two civil defense radio frequencies were marked with a CD logo right on the AM dial of every radio sold in the USA?

I totally forgot about that until you mentioned it.  I remember the siren tests though.  In the Catholic elementary school I attended "duck and cover" was no easy task since the desks and chairs were bolted to the floor.  Those nuns didn't take any chances on us getting out of line.  :)


Do or did nuns actually smack with rulers?  That seems to be the Standard Catholic Nun behavior in tv comedies.
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,763
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2014, 02:45:46 PM »
Do or did nuns actually smack with rulers?  That seems to be the Standard Catholic Nun behavior in tv comedies.

The Dominican nuns in the school I went to did.

waus_nuns.jpgThe Emergency Broadcast System ?
These ladies in case you never met one.

Sister Ann Christopher had a backhand a tennis pro would have envied.

Some of the older ones used to whack with one of those 40" rubber tipped wooden pointers too.

old-fashioned-school.jpgThe Emergency Broadcast System ?

But the times were a changin' (and those metal rod reinforced pointers too easily bruised) so the yardstick became the nun's weapon of choice for school discipline.

(They'd also throw chalk sticks. One of those in the back of the head was a painful reminder not to pass notes in class.) :huh:
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 02:58:50 PM by 40hz »

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 990
  • !!!... !!!!!! (face my... other left ?!?)
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2014, 03:11:26 PM »
Do or did nuns actually smack with rulers?  That seems to be the Standard Catholic Nun behavior in tv comedies.

The Dominican nuns in the school I went to did.

They used to use those rubber tipped wooden pointers too.
 (see attachment in previous post)
But the times were a changin', and pointers too easily bruised, so the yardstick became the tool of choice for school discipline.
 (see attachment in previous post)These ladies in case you never saw one.

Sister Ann Christopher had a backhand a tennis pro would have envied.

(They'd also throw chalk sticks. One of those in the back of the head was a painful reminder not to pass notes in class.) :huh:

Sister Mary Elephant is the only nun i know but she didn't smack... she yelled   ;D
Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium-SP2   Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU    T6400 @ 2.00GHz    4GB RAM    64-bit        Windows(R) Internet Explorer 9

SeraphimLabs

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 497
  • Be Ready
    • View Profile
    • SeraphimLabs
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2014, 03:25:18 PM »
I still think the old fashioned mechanical SD-10 air raid sirens that went off at noon every Saturday post WWII till about 1980 were the most reliable. (A steady siren meant: "alert" A rising and falling tone meant: "Sit down; face the nearest concrete wall; put head between legs - kiss ass goodbye!" as the saying went.

At least with those you could always hook a gas engine or car battery up to them (by design) and get them to work. If the grid is down, all the technology in the world becomes nothing but inert PC boards stuffed with electronics.


I remember the scout camp I went to had an old ambulance siren mounted to the roof of the medical lodge. When it sounded, we were to report immediately to the parade ground unless the weather was severe- in which case the location to report to was the main dining hall.

It was operated off of a 12v battery on a high shelf in the medical lodge waiting room, since the camp was in a remote location and was frequently without grid power after severe storms.

Also there was a 3T22 in the town I used to live in. I only ever heard it signal the alternate wailing fire alarm, but upon finding the type on youtube learned that it also had a steady-high alert as well as a hi-lo wailing signal for air raids. If coupled with the proper power equipment, a horn like that would still be very effective at making sure people know if they need to take action.

(Sample of a 3T22 testing all three modes https://www.youtube..../watch?v=md5-fl3VtVc )

And lets face it. In a truely end of the status quo scenario, technology newer than 1960s or so may very well simply not work due to loss of a fuel/energy source or because of damage from EMP or other disaster. Prior to the 1960s, equipment would take a beating and keep right on going, and anyone handy with a wrench could sort it out promptly if there was a problem.

app103

  • That scary taskbar girl
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2006
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,650
    • View Profile
    • App's Apps
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2014, 04:26:43 PM »

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,265
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2014, 04:51:24 PM »
I still think the old fashioned mechanical SD-10 air raid sirens that went off at noon every Saturday post WWII till about 1980 were the most reliable.

We were less than a mile - as the crow flies - from the tower ... Man talk about a shit your pants level attention getter! :Thmbsup: I can still hear that damn thing now.

Edvard

  • Coding Snacks Author
  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,880
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2014, 08:13:55 PM »
The town of my birth in Oregon put the old air raid siren to good use.  It would go off with a 3-cycle rising and falling tone at exactly 12 noon.  The town is small enough that you can hear it even if you live a mile or two "back in the hills."

I agree that internet news travels pretty fast.  All it would take is a few big names (facebook, twitter, google) to post urgent news on their front page à la "Amber Alerts" and most folks would get it.

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,214
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2014, 08:49:52 PM »
Back to EMS and the Internet...

The connection can never be guaranteed, but setting that aside, on the software side, the best solution would be a client. Whether it is push/pull would be an issue though.

To actually get reliability, you'd need a hardware solution and radio waves. So, a radio receiver that could connect to the software client running under the OS and then transmit any EMS signal there. I've not heard much about the EMS being exploited, but that's still an issue for spoofed signals.

Random thought: I want a Faraday cage.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Edvard

  • Coding Snacks Author
  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,880
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2014, 09:20:24 PM »
Random thought: I want a Faraday cage.

It needs to be grounded to be effective: http://en.wikipedia....romagnetic_radiation

chuckleface.png

4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,407
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2014, 11:23:06 PM »
Here in Oz we now have the Emergency Alert service in case of emergencies, (eg. bushfires).

Quote
Emergency Alert is the national telephone warning system used by emergency services to send voice messages to landlines and text messages to mobile phones within a defined area about likely or actual emergencies. In the case of an emergency, you may receive a voice message on your landline or a text message on your mobile phone.

Emergency services decide when they will use Emergency Alert. It is just one way of warning communities and will not be used in all circumstances. Emergency Alert relies on telecommunications networks to send messages, and message delivery cannot be guaranteed.

Do not rely on receiving a warning message on your phone. You still need to prepare for an emergency and you should not wait to receive a warning before you act.

I received a couple of SMS' during the last bushfire season, (or was it the one before :-\ ).

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,163
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Emergency Broadcast System ?
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2014, 05:33:09 AM »
Quote

Do or did nuns actually smack with rulers?  That seems to be the Standard Catholic Nun behavior in tv comedies.

At my school they were sicker than that.  They made you smack yourself across the knuckles with the ruler.  As you are hitting yourself the nun tells you "Harder.  Harder.  More." etc..

I refused to do it.  It was just too pervy.  It was better to let them call my house and have my father kick my ass when he got home from work.  At least I wasn't beating myself up.  When I got to 8th grade the nun who was home room teacher just laughed when I clowned around.  She was cool.