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Last post Author Topic: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees  (Read 9461 times)

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2014, 09:53:18 AM »
I wonder if there's such a thing as a consumer model cafe con leche machine?  That's the only coffee I like to drink now.  The machines the restaurants use have an espresso coffee maker with a siphon that heats the milk.  They make each cup individually.
  • is that steamed milk then?
  • what, roughly, are the proportions milk to coffee?
(trying to figure the difference from a cappuccino)

There are consumer versions of those machines (most are expensive, some *very*); I make something like that at home with a traditional espresso pot and heat/whisk the milk (not too hot though, or you get that boiled milk flavour) - does take a bit of work...

They do get the milk fairly hot.  I see bubbles in it but I think that's from the siphon action.  How much milk varies per taste.  One of the women used to just put the small coffee cup to catch the espresso and add a taste of milk.  That was a bit strong for me so I asked for a bit more milk.  I have only seen one person make the coffee using a regular coffee pot.  It tastes OK but not as good as the restaurant version.  Fortunately the coffee prices where I get mine are very reasonable.  Small medium large is $1  $1.50  $2.00.

I've watched them make my coffee often enough if I had the machine I think I could get it right in 2 or 3 tries.  But I'm sure those restaurant machines are an investment.

Edit:  But to try to answer your question, most of them fill a small coffe cup about 1/3 with espresso.  The morning woman is very generous and will fill it up about 75% or more if I let her.  If you ask for it "medium" strength they probably fill to about 40%.  I didn't get the name of the coffee beans they use though.

Edit2:  The machine does have hot water under pressure for the espresso.  It must use that for heat exchange to the milk.  It heats it pretty quickly so that must be it.  I see them spray out some hot water into the carafe to clean it out especially if you ask for no sugar.




« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 10:04:18 AM by MilesAhead »

Edvard

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2014, 06:05:06 PM »
This is mine:

http://www.mrcoffee....-ECM260.html#start=6
27 PM.png

It makes a pretty decent brew, especially if I pack it good.  Yes, the wand is for steam, that's what foams and heats the milk.  This model is much better than my old one, as it makes 2 shots in just a minute or two.  The old one took 5 minutes or more.  

If you want REALLY authentic italian-style single-cup coffee, get one of these:

http://www.bialettis.../MokaExpressMain.htm
NewMokaExpressLarge.jpg

Although they do come in different sizes, up to 12 cups.

... And if you're feeling like parting ways with a sizable bit of cash just to indulge in the best coffee you've ever tasted, find a specialty store that sells Illy:
http://shop.illy.com...-all-preparations_us

My lovely wife bought me a gift set of Illy coffee for Father's day.  I always thought that stuff was overhyped and likely over-roasted or something, and the thought of paying 15 bucks for a pinch over half a pound of coffee just made me cringe.  I still can't say it's worth it, but damn that was good coffee...

tomos

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2014, 06:10:32 PM »
If you want REALLY authentic italian-style single-cup coffee, get one of these:

that's what I'm using :up:

PS that coffee machine is very reasonable...
Tom

bit

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2014, 09:09:36 AM »
So, now you'll have to jailbreak your coffee maker to be able to brew the coffee of your choice?  :huh:
jailbreak>virus>Google>Images>"coffee monster" ;D

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2014, 10:24:19 AM »
Quote
Yes, the wand is for steam

That explains why it is so loud.  For some reason I thought it siphoned the milk through some hot coils.  Probably because the milk doesn't seem to get watered down.  But that would also explain why they are not reluctant to stick the wand right into your coffee cup to make the coffee hotter.  Nothing is going inside the machine.  All the pressure is positive.  No sanitary issues other than the external surface of the wand itself.

xtabber

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2014, 12:02:27 PM »
If you just want to use unlicensed pods in a Keurig 2.0, it is extremely simple to get around the DRM, as demonstrated in many YouTube videos like the following:

http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=0ltx1mMoneE
http://youtu.be/YtMR-2CNGgY

Keurig machines are great for places like offices and showrooms since they allow many people make single cups quickly with minimal mess, but for home use, I don't see any advantage. Aside from convenience, coffee has better flavor when made using the drip process than with the Keurig pressure system.

I prefer to buy coffee in the bean, grind small quantities for use within a few days, and use Melitta type filters, either in standalone cones or a drip coffee maker.  For single cups, a #4 cone works just as well as the "single cup" #2 cone, just use the right amount of coffee and water for what you want. 

wraith808

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2014, 12:26:31 PM »
but for home use, I don't see any advantage.

My wife likes cappuccino.  It's definitely a lot easier for her to make it every morning in a Keurig than not.  And though I like the taste of coffee/tea prepared in other fashions better, it's definitely more convenient... which is the reason that the reusable pods I discarded the use of a while ago.  Because it took out the convenience.  There's also the ability to get hot water on tap a lot faster than I would otherwise even when I use some other method of preparation.

So IMO there are reasons.  I was skeptical until I started using it- I bought it for my wife mostly.  But after I started using it... yes, there are definite advantages.

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2014, 12:38:24 PM »
Quote
I prefer to buy coffee in the bean, grind small quantities for use within a few days, and use Melitta type filters, either in standalone cones or a drip coffee maker.  For single cups, a #4 cone works just as well as the "single cup" #2 cone, just use the right amount of coffee and water for what you want.

When at home I typically only drank a couple of mugs a day.  I'd grind the beans right then and used a 4 cup Mr Coffee with paper filter and 12 ounces of water.  That would net me a good 10 oz. mug.  The drip process only took a few minutes.  I was the only one drinking coffee so a full sized pot would be overkill.

But with light cream harder to find in South Florida than free food I'm enthusiastic about the steamed milk technique.  :)


J-Mac

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2014, 10:37:14 PM »
Here's my baby - from 1986! Still runs though to be honest I don’t use it that much anymore. Hate to get rid of it - kinda like my old 1928 black cast iron Royal typewriter...

Jim

[attachimg=#1][/attachimg]

SeraphimLabs

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2014, 11:25:25 PM »
I just saw the Keurig 2.0 at walmart.

Can't help but wonder how many people will buy it anyway unaware of the change and the true meaning of the "buy only genuine keurig pods" labels on the package.

mwb1100

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2014, 01:40:21 AM »
I have half a thought of buying one just so I can return it because it doesn't work with the coffee 'pods' I have.  Companies shouldn't be  able to get away with this kind of crap, and that seems to be a concrete way to let them know.

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2014, 05:57:24 AM »
I have half a thought of buying one just so I can return it because it doesn't work with the coffee 'pods' I have.  Companies shouldn't be  able to get away with this kind of crap, and that seems to be a concrete way to let them know.

When I was an Auto Mechanic I remember having Phillips Head and slot screw drivers and a handle for hex socket both English and metric.  All set for stuff like removing a grille or door panel.  Then the automakers must have bought stock in the tool making companies because the grilles had new screws with weird depressions in them.  Sort of like those locking lug nuts where you need that stupid adapter to get the wheel off.  The SnapOn Guy(tm) is all smiles as he sells you the same crap over again.  Nothing like ripping off your customer base to endear your products.  Word of mouth advertizing NOT.  :)

40hz

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2014, 10:37:41 AM »
Of course it's kinda hard to feel too much sympathy for anyone who insists on buying an expensive brewing machine that produces an inferior tasting cuppa for approximately 75 cents a serving... :-\

However, if you want a superior tasting single cup, get one of the glass Kalita pour-over drip brewers. (Note: this model says 2-4 cups - but it's more like 12-16 ozs. which is just a large or x-large in my book.)

It may be a smidgen less "convenient" than a Keurig since you have to boil water, add a filter, put some coffee in it, and then pour. But in actual use, it only takes a few minutes. And most of us coffee regulars have the brewing choreography down so well we don't even need to think about it. As a plus you'll save a decent amount of counter space without that hulking Keurig. The only downside is the cost of the filters. Kalita doesn't save you any money there compared to the Keurig. But the superior cup you get is worth it IMO. Definitely a better choice for those times when you just want to brew a single large serving. The rest of the time you're better of making a regular pot. That's what a good quality glass thermal carafe is for.

Just my :two:  8)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 10:45:36 AM by 40hz »

Renegade

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2014, 11:26:52 AM »
Ok i'm [retty frigin drunmk and i think i culd use some koffe and it hink theat I shucl d not clik ppost or anything or athat coffee or what what that thinking.... perhaps moar coffee...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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tomos

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2014, 02:11:43 PM »
Ok i'm [retty frigin drunmk and i think i culd use some koffe and it hink theat I shucl d not clik ppost or anything or athat coffee or what what that thinking.... perhaps moar coffee...

4b644a6546bc87588cd786c.jpg
Tom

Edvard

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2014, 08:20:34 PM »
Of course it's kinda hard to feel too much sympathy for anyone who insists on buying an expensive brewing machine that produces an inferior tasting cuppa for approximately 75 cents a serving... :-\

However, if you want a superior tasting single cup, get one of the glass Kalita pour-over drip brewers. (Note: this model says 2-4 cups - but it's more like 12-16 ozs. which is just a large or x-large in my book.)

It may be a smidgen less "convenient" than a Keurig since you have to boil water, add a filter, put some coffee in it, and then pour. But in actual use, it only takes a few minutes. And most of us coffee regulars have the brewing choreography down so well we don't even need to think about it. As a plus you'll save a decent amount of counter space without that hulking Keurig. The only downside is the cost of the filters. Kalita doesn't save you any money there compared to the Keurig. But the superior cup you get is worth it IMO. Definitely a better choice for those times when you just want to brew a single large serving. The rest of the time you're better of making a regular pot. That's what a good quality glass thermal carafe is for.

Just my :two:  8)

Even Kalita has cashed in on the craze:
http://kalita-usa.com/kantan_drip.html   ;D

All the reviews I have read about the Kalita "Wave" brewers say the filter is the biggest 'con' (out of pros and cons) about them; they don't stock them at your corner store and they cost 10-15 bucks for a pack of 100, when 'normal' filters cost around 2.
How about just using a regular filter and folding it down?  No go, say the enthusiasts.  The patented "wave" (read: pleated sides) configuration must be preserved for the full flavor to be realized.  
https://www.seattlec...-wave-coffee-filters

Patented?  Make a teeny-size version of something that has existed for years, give it a 'kicky' name and you can PATENT it?

Hey Face! Say hello to your old friend Palm!
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app103

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2014, 01:41:03 AM »
I just brewed a cup of Dunkin Donuts pumpkin spice coffee right in my mug, using a medium sized one of these:

$T2eC16JHJHcFFkRE6t,zBRh-c7t-gg~~60_35[1].JPG

I set it in the mug, stuck a filter in it, added 1 scoop of coffee (1/8 cup or 2 TBS...it's a big mug), then poured hot water over it till it started covering the grounds. Then picked it up and let it drain. The coffee came out good!  :)

I have done this with loose tea before (without the filter). Never thought to do it with coffee.

So, yeah, now I have a 1 cup coffee maker, without DRM, that cost me a whopping $0.33. And it brews loose tea, too. :D

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2014, 05:45:05 AM »
I only drink 2, maybe 3 coffees in a day so I'll defer to those with experience.  Is it possible to get good Espresso results using ordinary drip methods?  I'm not sure if the cafe con leche places use an espresso machine for speed or if it's really necessary to get the quality.

Some customers get the coffee staight up.  But if you add a lot of milk I think it takes the concentrated coffee to stand up to it, if that makes any sense.

For a time I used Medaglia D'Oro canned espresso in a drip maker.  But I only used the regular amount of coffee.  I was going for the flavor of it rather than trying to make Espresso.


MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2014, 05:46:37 AM »

Quote
So, yeah, now I have a 1 cup coffee maker, without DRM, that cost me a whopping $0.33. And it brews loose tea, too. :D

App that's cheating.  Your coffee maker should have a slot to swipe your credit card.  :)

wraith808

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2014, 09:36:30 AM »
Just like everything else, mileage varies by consumer.  And the Keurig I originally purchased because my wife loves cappuccino, and it gave her a convenient way to have a good tasting cup in the morning.  For that alone it was worth it to me.  I know it's not cafe quality- but it works for her.  And as time passed, I realized that it was just more convenient to use for my coffee and tea.  I still use my french press and my infuser at times... but when I need a quick cup, the keurig works.  And the taste isn't *that* inferior with the right cups.

40hz

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2014, 11:57:37 AM »
All the reviews I have read about the Kalita "Wave" brewers say the filter is the biggest 'con' (out of pros and cons) about them; they don't stock them at your corner store and they cost 10-15 bucks for a pack of 100, when 'normal' filters cost around 2.
How about just using a regular filter and folding it down?  No go, say the enthusiasts.  The patented "wave" (read: pleated sides) configuration must be preserved for the full flavor to be realized.

It's more "in the pour" than it being which filter IMHO.

Getting the right amount of water at the correct temperature through the correct amount of grounds at the right speed is the key. Everything else is marketing boondoggle or wishful thinking.

The Kalita tries to make it idiot proof. They succeed very well. That said, I refuse to pay the price they want for their filters. I've used the smallest Mr. Coffee and Melitta filters with equally good results. You just need to work on your pouring technique a little more. The ones specifically made for the Kalita make it virtually goof proof. It's almost as easy as slosh and wait. But at such a premium, it's hardly worth it to me. YMMV.

And as App pointed out, she can get an excellent result with an inexpensive kitchen strainer. All it takes is a little feel for the brewing and an appreciation for good coffee.

 :Thmbsup:
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:52:54 PM by 40hz »

Edvard

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2014, 12:41:28 AM »
I only drink 2, maybe 3 coffees in a day so I'll defer to those with experience.  Is it possible to get good Espresso results using ordinary drip methods?  I'm not sure if the cafe con leche places use an espresso machine for speed or if it's really necessary to get the quality.

Not so much quality (I've had awful espresso, and I've had damn fine drip), but definitely a different character and strength.  No, you cannot get espresso from a drip, the processes are too different.  The drip method bathes course grounds in a hot water bath, the other uses fine grounds shot with hot water under steam pressure.  The espresso method extracts more of the coffee flavor in a shorter amount of time, resulting in higher strength and lower tannin [citation needed].  You can get drip-strength from espresso by cutting a shot into a mug of hot water.  It'll still retain that distinct espresso flavor, but much more subdued.  It's called an Americano on the menu...

Quote
Some customers get the coffee straight up.  But if you add a lot of milk I think it takes the concentrated coffee to stand up to it, if that makes any sense.

Once again, espresso is rather concentrated, so milk not only dilutes it a bit, but cuts the acids and rounds out the flavor.  The first time I had espresso, I had no idea what it was, just that everybody in Seattle was drinking it.  So, when a friend of mine came up to visit, I took her to a little cafe in downtown, she ordered a bowl of rice and I ordered a Single Espresso.  The guy asked "are you sure?" and I said "Yeah" as I paid the 99 cents.  Later the guy came to our table with a shot glass.  With coffee in it.  I said "Thanks" but inside I was like "I paid 99 cents for a swallow?".  Then I put it to my lips and I could barely get down a sip.  Not because it was bad, but incredibly strong and intensely flavorful.  I nursed that shot glass for almost half an hour and afterwards I considered it a buck well spent.  I've also had Turkish coffee at a Mediterranean restaurant, and it was like drinking orange-flavored battery acid.  So.  Damn.  Good.

Quote
For a time I used Medaglia D'Oro canned espresso in a drip maker.  But I only used the regular amount of coffee.  I was going for the flavor of it rather than trying to make Espresso.

Exactly.  What you got was the flavor of a dark espresso roasted coffee, with perhaps a bit finer grind.  Nothing wrong with that, I'm a bit partial to Medaglia D'Oro myself when I get the hankering, but it's not espresso proper.

Just like everything else, mileage varies by consumer.  And the Keurig I originally purchased because my wife loves cappuccino, and it gave her a convenient way to have a good tasting cup in the morning.  For that alone it was worth it to me.  I know it's not cafe quality- but it works for her.  And as time passed, I realized that it was just more convenient to use for my coffee and tea.  I still use my french press and my infuser at times... but when I need a quick cup, the Keurig works.  And the taste isn't *that* inferior with the right cups.

To each his own.  I'm sure if I was gifted one over the holidays, it wouldn't go unused in the corner, and I'd be chatting up the K-cup connoisseurs at the local grocers for tips on which varieties to stick by.  Replacing it after it died, that's a different story.  ;)

...
Getting the right amount of water at the correct temperature through the correct amount of grounds at the right speed is the key. Everything else is marketing boondoggle or wishful thinking.
...
And as App pointed out, she can get an excellent result with an inexpensive kitchen strainer. All it takes is a little feel for the brewing and an appreciation for good coffee.

 :Thmbsup:

Amen to that!  :Thmbsup:

tomos

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2014, 08:52:55 AM »
NSFW comparison: K-cup vs. 'real' coffee:


Tom

MilesAhead

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2014, 10:21:12 AM »
Quote
And as App pointed out, she can get an excellent result with an inexpensive kitchen strainer. All it takes is a little feel for the brewing and an appreciation for good coffee.

True enough if you have a steady hand.  I used Melita Filters for a while.  But it just seemed like I'd get a little nervous tick just as I'm pouring the water through.  I don't make many coffees a day so the touch is slow to develop.  Meanwhile money is going into the kitchen trash bag.  Only making a couple of mugs a day I found the Mr, Coffee easy to get right consistently.

Of course when I get my own digs I'll have to check out the available gear to decide if I make my own or continue to be supplied by hot babes who know how to steam thing up fast.  :)

app103

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Re: DRM in your coffee maker, to stop you from brewing unlicensed coffees
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2014, 10:25:53 AM »
NSFW comparison: K-cup vs. 'real' coffee:


Thanks for that! The image at the bottom of the page sent me on a shopping spree.  :-[