DonationCoder.com Software > Find And Run Robot

not freeware !!!

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mouser:
I'll just say a few words. 

First, I really don't mind these posts -- anyone who wants to come back every 8 months or so and write a considered discussion about the nature of our software is welcome to, even if it criticizes the choices we make.

Second, I very much hope you will go read the one-year report article i wrote and referenced above in my original reply.  I only want to call your attention to the fact that the reality is, from my own personal past experience and the experience of every programmer i've seen put a donate link on their page, that with a very rare exception, people will simply not donate (contribute money) for a program unless you make a very very active effort to convince them to do so.

Now that doesn't mean you have to make such an effort, but it does mean that if you expect to raise any money at all, whethe you are writing software or running a public television network, you are going to have to go to some more elaborate work if you hope to be funded with voluntary user-chosen amounts.

(Personally I'd rather just code all day, and never deal with asking for money.  I'm not particularly fond of capitalism and the whole money-dominated nature of society, and the way it's often used as a proxy for status in this world, and the way we seem to increasingly be dividing this planet into the hyper rich who bathe in gold and the normal people who work all day to scratch out a daily living without healthcare, etc..).

It embarasses me to have to ask for money, and to do so so blatantly on the pages here.  If it didn't have to be done I wouldn't be doing it.  I'm not trying to (or going to) get rich -- no one at donationcoder is going to get rich from this stuff.  We're just trying to carve out a little path in this world where we can survive on the money received from people that pay what they think is reasonable, no more and no less, even if that amount is 0.

Third,
As app103 says, whatever you want to call our software, the defining characteristic has been that the user can choose to pay what they want for the full version, as little as 1 penny.  They can also choose not to pay anything and still have the full program with only the most minor of inconveniences (signing up at our forum and download a license key three time over a one year period).

We try very very hard to figure out a way to do stuff here that will make the software free and a pleasant experience for everyone who absolutely is against (or incapable of) paying anything.  We don't always succeed, and we are trying to improve this, but we are trying, and trying to improve this and simplify.

Fourth,
When you see an abandonware project, or some free software that never gets updated and never had a help file written, etc. you might consider like i do, that there are some real benefits to users when a software author is compensated financially for their work.  It means they can afford to spend time doing some of the less fun parts of the job, and can afford to spend more of their time improving their software.

The donations I've received on this site have made all the difference in the world in terms of being able to spend the time improving my programs and adding site features, etc.  Without the donations of the people you see around you here, none of that would have been possible.  So it is with great appreciation that I receive donations -- a deep feeling of gratefullness for everyone who donates, no matter the amount.  They are what enable me to keep programming here.

I respect those who view our process as overly burdensome, and I really do welcome all suggestions for ways to improve it.

-Jesse (mouser)

--

ps. As you point out, in a few months you will have be signed up for over a year which will entitled you to a full non-expiring lifetime license key for all of our software.

Darwin:
Hmm... This is interesting. I don't know how I missed this thread back in June (though I was in the throes of moving at the time, so that may explain it). My hackles go way up when I read diatribes against the donationcoder concept, so I was pleasantly surprised by edyshor's comments - as noted above, they are thoughtful and polite.

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that donationcoder's tactics are aggressive and that the licensing is misrepresented. Visiting a site to set up an account to receive a license key and then being politely asked to update that key two or three times before having a permanent license issued is hardly aggressive and hardly inconvenient. My browser, by default, opens to the same page every time I fire it up, which means that I am "forced" to visit that page at least 365 times a year! OK, a forced analogy to be sure, but really how onerous is it to be required to visit a webpage once every 121 1/3 days? The functionality of the software isn't even impaired while you wait for the serial to be generated!

OK, I'll shut up now. I just don't "get it" and doubt that I ever will. Likewise, the other side is not likely to "get" my position, either (as in, why I can't understand the fuss). And so it goes... Thank you edyshor, for your thought provoking posts and non-inflammatory tone. As mouser points out,  your year is almost up and your non-expiring license yours for the asking. How inconvenient, aggressive, and underhanded is that?

f0dder:
I must say that I don't really understand what the fuzz is about.

You can get the software for free, as in gratis. Yes, you need to put in a minimal amount of effort to do this, but there's no banner ads, and you're only going to see, what, three nags in your lifetime? Imho complaining about this is slightly arrogant, but okay - people are lazy these days :)

I think the way donationcoder.com is a lot more honest than those "freeware" apps that come bundled with adware (or "just" yahoo/google/whatever toolbar). And it's not like there's over-zealous nagging or functionality limitation. And I don't like the word "business model", it's more about the community chipping in a bit to keep the idea alive - not to mention covering the costs of running a reliable, high-speed dedicated server.

edyshor:
I see with much regret that you miss the point of my posts, i am a programmer, i work for a company to get money, in order to eat, have a roof above my head, and having the possibility to party with my friends a couple of times a month, spoil my girlfried with some thoughtfull and unexpected gift, so i completely understand the matter from the programmer's point of view, and maybe from time to time I'll succeed in managing my time more efficiently so i could contribute to the freeware and open source comunity. So the need for money, the fact that programmers need to eat, drink, and otherwise enjoy life aside computer related activities (which also require founding for electricity, internet, maintenance, etc) all this is not an issue. I completely understand this. And the desire to create free software.

But i am also a power user, i have knowledge on software and hardware internals, I've met with situations that require tools, i track, download and test software (free software) that can help me with a problem or other hassle-free (or with minimum effort) and i consider myself quite familiar with software terminology and purpose. I also developed some principles that i adhere to it and much is learned from experience and some i developed by myself, and yes, i feel very strong about the right and wrong.

The problem is with terminology. The software found and Donation Coder (the one that requires a 6 month licence and registration to obtain it) is not freeware or donationware in the strict sense, its free software (which is not the same as freeware).

I've spend the last few horus reading on alt.comp.freeware (google groups) and i come to understand some of your points but i still agree with them freeware is freeware and must remain the same, freeware is free software, but free software is not freeware, let me explain a little on that, maybe you'll understand me better ..

Freeware (aside the definition from alt.comp.freeware) is software that you plug and play no hassle no question asked without the need to visit author's page, without guaranties either (I've had my share of bad experiences with purely written software) but it's freeware, that is the purpose of it, no need to register, do something more then run application and expect to run without me being required to license it or anything else. Rest assured that i have enough experience recognize a good application and it throughly browse the author's webpage because i generally find more stuff there, that way i learn about the author, the software, his thought, articles he's written, websites and software he recommends.

Free software covers a larger area (ad-ware, spyware, requestware, registerware) so technically your software is registerware i.e. free software and not freeware.

Donationware, is free software that is released and the user is called upon to support the developer if he wishes, with a donation, but it is not forced upon it in neither way, not by spaming him with requests into persuading him to donate, not by forcing him to give something (like information, by registering on the DC's forum) this solely ejects it from the freeware category.

OK, maybe you can extend the donationware, to make it more .. persuasive to the cause (after all is free software, with the condition that the user has to register on the forum) but it's definitely not freeware!

I have nothing with the programmers, or the software, or the idea to bring users and programmers together, but i fell the freeware and possibly the donationware concepts are threatened. I'd hate to see some time from now the download.com advertising freeware that you can for free 30 days then you'll have to pay if you want to use it for free  :tellme: (some freeware). As for the donationware probably some time from now we're gonna have to buy software (by donating of course) anyway, so you're just a link on the chain.

Rest assured that you have my respect for what you've build, for the comunity you've created, and probably I'll spend some time on the forum as this guy's (app103) testimonial for DC posted on alt.comp.freeware convinced me to look again with a more relaxed eye at the DC comunity.

As for the software, if the tools could have been packed in one exe with one chm, if necessary one general purpose dll, using one ini file to store settings (were appropriate) and no other requirements (like a license key) you would have had a most than satisfied user in me. Now this license stuff is OK, is part of your fidelizing strategy, but its complicated, even wen I'll get the license key, I'll have to carry it around with the program and 'register' the software in every computer i insert my USB Stick .. that would be more than annoying.

Aside the alteration of freeware and donationware concepts in DC's comunity, this i don't like. And in the beginning when I've discovered DC, i didn't like the fact that i had to register in order to use the software, i didn't used it anyway, not even to see what's capable off, as a form of protest (maybe childish and then maybe not) and yet i registered to tell you what was on my mind. I'm glad to see that you welcomed my criticism with ease and even put an effort to explain to me your point of view, but man, leave the websites alone, many accepts a wide range of descriptions and, as an alt.comp.freeware poster said, you could accurately describe your software so the user knows what to expect.  (Now, on download.com only ProcessTamer I've seen to have such a disclamer  8))

Anyway, today before my previous post I've downloaded some of the software and I'll test drive it, maybe in time (since from now on it seems I'll have more free time on my hands) you'll find me an active user on the forum.

Cheers!   :)

PS: DonationCoder is an inspired name "Will code for donations" :Thmbsup: but as you already know, i don't think the same for your donationware   ;)

edyshor:
f0dder, some time ago, Einstein wished that he didn't open the pandora's box, now we are on a verge of a 3rd Word War, a nuclear one ...

I know I'm exaggerating with this comparison, but just imagine instaid how would the Word Wide Web look today if W3C hadn't kept the standards in check ?!  :-\

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