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Last post Author Topic: not freeware !!!  (Read 20279 times)

edyshor

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not freeware !!!
« on: June 05, 2006, 04:20:27 AM »
OK, i hope i got your attention .. :)
I understand the need for money .. i need it to, but make a shareware, trialware programs, do not cripple the "donation" concept please .. don't get all fired up and let me explain  ;)
i don't care about your definitions, a donation must not be forced (imposed), if it is under pressure then its something else covered behind the "donation" name .. just like our politicians use the term to cover for corruption  :(
It is your right to do what you want, i understand that, but it is not ethically right to pressure users to "donate" .. if they like your stuff and want to thank you for it they will go all the way with the hassle (completing forms, etc) to donate you, just to say "Hey, Great Job with that porgy, keep them comming, I'm with you"  :D
I find it disturbing the nag screens, the fact that i have to get and use (even a free) license key, its annoying and for that simple impediment i won't use the tools (even if they seem great) and i downloaded the drag and drop to see it in action (nice piece, usefull) .. me, not using the tool (and maybe the other, but i don't want to feel temped) is my way of protesting to your method.. probably I'm one in a million, but then again you shouldn't care about this isolated incident  8)

Just to make thing clear, I'm not telling you how to sell your software, how to persuade people into giving you money, if it should be free or shareware or crippleware, I'm objecting to the aggressive request of "donations" (i.e. missuse of the "donation" concept) .. people, u're great, if all u'r software is like drag&drop robot, you should consider bulk them up in one "suite" and selling it if your in it for money, but if you make freeware, maybe you should look up the freeware definition  ;) (from what i know, freeware is giving a software for free and not requesting anything in return - no donations, no credit, no postcards, no thanks - all this should be expected from the common sense of a user and his principles - if he has any - but should not be forced on any way)

Well this is my way of seeing things, and I'm not alone :D (the open source and freeware movement should be proof enough) Trying to get money using the good name and reputation of these comunities is just not right ethically. That is way i protest by not using your so called "freeware/donationware"  >:(

Anyway .. good luck with your business, i like what you code and I'm sure you'll have success in the software industry :)

have fun

Carol Haynes

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 04:45:08 AM »
A donation is not forced to use completely unrestricted software from the site. All that is requested is that you consider giving a donation if you find the program useful. If you don't want to make a donation you can use it for free.

The only thing you need to do to get a free license code is to visit the site 3 times (at 6 monthly intervals over a year) and sign up to the forum. The object of this is to encourage people to become involved in a growing and active community (without being too intrusive) and not just download a copy from a third party website and never visit the homepage. There is nothing sinister about it (look around an see what other members think). The other thing to consider is the programs are updated with alarming regularity and there is great support available in the forums so it is definitely worth keeping in touch with the site.

There has been a lot of discussion on the forum on what constitutes freeware and donationware do feel free to join in with those threads and air your views.

The way I see it (personal view) is that if you can download and use software completely for free then it is freeware, if a donation would be appreciated then it is donationware. Since all the software available on the site fits into both descriptions then both terms can be legitimately applied. To me freeware does not mean that there is no license agreement (in fact you have to agree to a license agreement as part of almost all freeware - even if you don't bother to read it) - donationcoder.com just asks that as part of the license agreement that you download a free key - and even if you don't the app still works without restriction.

If you don't want to register with the site that is fine too and you can download a license key for free every couple of months without any registration. Go here: http://www.donationc...om/Keys/nosignup.php if that is what you want to do.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 04:47:20 AM by Carol Haynes »

mouser

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2006, 05:10:30 AM »
edyshor -
first of all, thank you for a very thoughtfull post.

you are not the first person to say this but you have said it in the most reasonable and thoughtful way of anyway and that is very much appreciated.

as carol says, we have been debating both privately and publically the best way to describe what we are doing.  part of the problem is that there is no perfect term for what we are doing.. is it shareware? no.  so what is it then?  Registerware might be closest term, but i'm not sure many people understand that concept.

i do personally consider our software donationware (and i consider it freeware).  because i think our software meets the key principles of those terms.  However, I do acknowledge that there is a line and if it becomes too inconvenient for people to use the programs without doing "something" then you begin to abuse the terms.

if you get the chance check out the long article we wrote about some of these ideas:
http://articles.dona...r.com/One/index.html

that might explain a little more about what we are trying to do; there is also a long usenet thread which has much more elaborate discussion of this issue:
http://www.donationc...dex.php?topic=3651.0

what i can tell you is that we take comments like yours very seriously, and we are cogitating on the best way we can improve the communication of what we are doing without giving up our core principles.  Maybe we can find a way to make everyone happier with the way we describe our software, either by changing the terms of describing it or changing our policies.  Whatever we do, our software will remain free to use.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 06:27:45 AM by mouser »

nudone

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2006, 06:22:24 AM »
i'd also like to thank edyshor for posting their comment in such a nice way.

TucknDar

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2006, 04:12:41 PM »
Agree, a thoughtful post.

I too was kinda sceptical of the concept at first, but with the quality of the software, the friendliness around the place and everything about the forums, I found that making a little donation was a great way of saying that "Hey, I appreciate what you're doing, give me that licence now, although I could've gotten it for free with just a few 'obstacles'". (Sorry 'bout the long sentence :p )

I have no qualms about calling the software 'freeware' btw, as it is 100% possible to use it with no nags at all for no money at all. Certainly, there are some procedures to get it all for free, but it is possible, and IMO as such it is freeware.

edyshor

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 06:48:30 AM »
Hey there .. again, after long time .. 8)

I've gotten here again, by accident (jumping from link to link you might say) and i'm quite surprised to see that my account is still valid (you either don't do much cleaning on the zombie accounts or you keep them on-line for the 1 year thingie, either way, it's a good feeling to see i'm still alive on the forum :D)

No i still don't agree with your methods :mad: but the quality of your software seems to drive me back to this page from every quality tools/freeware site i'm visiting so ..  :-\ umm .. here i am again ..

I'm glad to see the comunity you've strived to gather is well formed and supporting, proving that a little .. :-\ umm ..imposed "thank yous" is beneficial for founding and building a supporting comunity (psychological fact - people feel the need to be part of what they contribute materialy to - but you should know material contribution are not the only way) wich is good for the life of the project, but you still give me a creepy "political" feeling :(

Anyway, you're in the business to make money, that's for shure, but your methods are more than questionable from the ethical point of view. I didn't belive i would ever say this, but i feel more confortable browsing a page full of banners asking me to buy/join/visit-to be convinced into buying of course ;) than browsing your site where on every page i see messages that try to pursuade me into buying your software (conveyed under the more relaxed therm "donating" wich drasticaly cheapens the concept - this is the creepy part, similar to Iran's "civil" Nuclear Programe :-\)

Anyway, my ranting won't change your minds or your actions, but one my regrets (aside the knoledgable misuse of donationware concept) is the fact that i can't use your progys as i would liked to .. you see, i have a nice collection of freeware stand-alone progys (small, fast, cute, and oh-so-usefull tools - just the exe and maybe a chm file) that are portable, OS traceless (most of them) that work without aditional dll's of other support files. I've gathered this collection over the years from differet sources, freeware (real freeware) authors (sysinternal, nirsoft, rejetto, arcanewood, even microsoft - top name just a few), now unless your exe apps write the licence information into their code they ar not that protable, and neither stand-alone. Witch is quite sad, for the best quick and dirty tools are small, fast, free (as in no feedback - of any type - required), stand-alone, and cute as hell  :-*

I've downloaded a few of your apps to see what's all the fuss about them, but even if they are the next best thing from sliced bread they can't go into 'MyProgys' collection  :( .. at best into my 'Kittz' folder ..

Have fun, and I trully hope that youll consider refining this 'pressured' payware system you're using. Why not call it .. umm .. nag-ware .. or if that souds to ugly maybe .. 'free (but better donations) registration software' .. or even better .. 'software per donations' .. :D now this one seems to be the perfect naming and the most acurate of them all (and its marketing friendly too) 8)

Don't think that i don't appreciate the work you're doing or the quality of your software, but coveing the purpose under a quite honorable concept its not a verry nice thing to do.

You sell software, its plain and simple, not by limiting its use to less than basic functionality or short usage period before the user has to choose wether to buy it or not, you do it buy using anoyances (nags, limited licences) and quite unfair marketing techniques (donation - a honorable thing to do, people who donate are good people, they feel good about themselfs when they donate), so being assaulted by spam on all your webpages + nags + limited licensing, they will donate because it's a good thing to do, they will thing they did it because they wanted to do it (after all the soft is free, is great, they deserves to give them some bucks) but the poor man doesn't realize that they are forced to do it, foced by the spam, by the annoyance (they will percive it as a reward from you when they are relived of it) ..

Is it ethical? No It's not !! It's dirty, it's manipulative, It's something i really don't like! Soon we'll have pay for centimeters cubes of air inhaled because the governments own it, the trees produce oxigen, the government owns the forests so it's only logical that we contribute with a little reward (a donation) to them for keeping the forests alive (after they decimated most of it over the decades) ..

Probably this is a rather long post and the thing is i'm not finished, i can't stress it enough, but i'll stop here because, as i've said before, my ranting ain't gonna change noting.

The tools look nice, probably they do theyr job nicely, to bad they came out in the open under the donationware shadow  :(

have fun, and good luck

jgpaiva

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 07:03:41 AM »
Actually, as far as i know, all of mouser's tools are portable. They all use .ini files and only change stuff on their own directory.

brotherS

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 07:22:56 AM »
@edyshor: please try to accept it or just ignore it, the concept won't radically change just because you still don't agree with it. Whatever you do in life, you'll never be able to satisfy *everybody*.

Like one speaker once said: "If you didn't upset at least one person until noon you aren't taking enough action in life." :D

app103

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 07:27:05 AM »
Maybe you should look at it from this perspective like I do:

Donationware is not freeware, but you can get it for free.

Donationware is similar to shareware, but you set the price you are willing to pay and think it is worth to you. That amount can be anything from $0 to $billions (I wish).

And not all donationware has nags reminding you that a human worked hard coding it and would be grateful if you supported it.

My stuff just has a link in the about box. And yes, there are graphics & text encouraging donating on all the pages of my website, too.

Part of the problem is that much of our stuff is being distributed on software download sites, and most people that download it from those sites will never see our site, never look in the about box, never know where it really came from, never know there is someone that would appreciate a donation.

The 'nags' are a way to call attention to the fact it is donationware.

I think the real problem is the download sites. They have only 2 choices of licensing when you submit something: shareware, or freeware.

We can't pick shareware, because it's not exactly true, since you can get it for free.  And picking freeware seems to make a few people angry because they don't like being told they can have it for free, but they have to do 'something' simple like get a free key.

I have seen some freeware that refused to work unless it was able to phone home and check for updates. The software would make you return to the site once a month to get a 'new version' that was no different than the previous one, except it has a new number in the about box. Each time you came back to the site you were smacked in the face with tons of ads and had to click and go through about 3-4 pages to get to the link to download the new version. 

So coming to this site 3 times for a key is a lot friendlier than making you come back for a new version every month for the rest of your life and hoping that you'll click an ad by mistake while you are here, just to make $0.02.




nudone

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 07:28:50 AM »
 ;D :) 8) ;) :( >:( :D :tellme: :o :huh: :-[ :down: :up: :Thmbsup: :'( :mad: :-\ :-* :P i think i've made myself perfectly clear.

mouser

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2007, 07:54:29 AM »
I'll just say a few words. 

First, I really don't mind these posts -- anyone who wants to come back every 8 months or so and write a considered discussion about the nature of our software is welcome to, even if it criticizes the choices we make.

Second, I very much hope you will go read the one-year report article i wrote and referenced above in my original reply.  I only want to call your attention to the fact that the reality is, from my own personal past experience and the experience of every programmer i've seen put a donate link on their page, that with a very rare exception, people will simply not donate (contribute money) for a program unless you make a very very active effort to convince them to do so.

Now that doesn't mean you have to make such an effort, but it does mean that if you expect to raise any money at all, whethe you are writing software or running a public television network, you are going to have to go to some more elaborate work if you hope to be funded with voluntary user-chosen amounts.

(Personally I'd rather just code all day, and never deal with asking for money.  I'm not particularly fond of capitalism and the whole money-dominated nature of society, and the way it's often used as a proxy for status in this world, and the way we seem to increasingly be dividing this planet into the hyper rich who bathe in gold and the normal people who work all day to scratch out a daily living without healthcare, etc..).

It embarasses me to have to ask for money, and to do so so blatantly on the pages here.  If it didn't have to be done I wouldn't be doing it.  I'm not trying to (or going to) get rich -- no one at donationcoder is going to get rich from this stuff.  We're just trying to carve out a little path in this world where we can survive on the money received from people that pay what they think is reasonable, no more and no less, even if that amount is 0.

Third,
As app103 says, whatever you want to call our software, the defining characteristic has been that the user can choose to pay what they want for the full version, as little as 1 penny.  They can also choose not to pay anything and still have the full program with only the most minor of inconveniences (signing up at our forum and download a license key three time over a one year period).

We try very very hard to figure out a way to do stuff here that will make the software free and a pleasant experience for everyone who absolutely is against (or incapable of) paying anything.  We don't always succeed, and we are trying to improve this, but we are trying, and trying to improve this and simplify.

Fourth,
When you see an abandonware project, or some free software that never gets updated and never had a help file written, etc. you might consider like i do, that there are some real benefits to users when a software author is compensated financially for their work.  It means they can afford to spend time doing some of the less fun parts of the job, and can afford to spend more of their time improving their software.

The donations I've received on this site have made all the difference in the world in terms of being able to spend the time improving my programs and adding site features, etc.  Without the donations of the people you see around you here, none of that would have been possible.  So it is with great appreciation that I receive donations -- a deep feeling of gratefullness for everyone who donates, no matter the amount.  They are what enable me to keep programming here.

I respect those who view our process as overly burdensome, and I really do welcome all suggestions for ways to improve it.

-Jesse (mouser)

--

ps. As you point out, in a few months you will have be signed up for over a year which will entitled you to a full non-expiring lifetime license key for all of our software.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 09:03:57 AM by mouser »

Darwin

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2007, 09:23:37 AM »
Hmm... This is interesting. I don't know how I missed this thread back in June (though I was in the throes of moving at the time, so that may explain it). My hackles go way up when I read diatribes against the donationcoder concept, so I was pleasantly surprised by edyshor's comments - as noted above, they are thoughtful and polite.

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that donationcoder's tactics are aggressive and that the licensing is misrepresented. Visiting a site to set up an account to receive a license key and then being politely asked to update that key two or three times before having a permanent license issued is hardly aggressive and hardly inconvenient. My browser, by default, opens to the same page every time I fire it up, which means that I am "forced" to visit that page at least 365 times a year! OK, a forced analogy to be sure, but really how onerous is it to be required to visit a webpage once every 121 1/3 days? The functionality of the software isn't even impaired while you wait for the serial to be generated!

OK, I'll shut up now. I just don't "get it" and doubt that I ever will. Likewise, the other side is not likely to "get" my position, either (as in, why I can't understand the fuss). And so it goes... Thank you edyshor, for your thought provoking posts and non-inflammatory tone. As mouser points out,  your year is almost up and your non-expiring license yours for the asking. How inconvenient, aggressive, and underhanded is that?
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 09:28:19 AM by Darwin »

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2007, 11:51:05 AM »
I must say that I don't really understand what the fuzz is about.

You can get the software for free, as in gratis. Yes, you need to put in a minimal amount of effort to do this, but there's no banner ads, and you're only going to see, what, three nags in your lifetime? Imho complaining about this is slightly arrogant, but okay - people are lazy these days :)

I think the way donationcoder.com is a lot more honest than those "freeware" apps that come bundled with adware (or "just" yahoo/google/whatever toolbar). And it's not like there's over-zealous nagging or functionality limitation. And I don't like the word "business model", it's more about the community chipping in a bit to keep the idea alive - not to mention covering the costs of running a reliable, high-speed dedicated server.
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edyshor

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2007, 01:03:22 PM »
I see with much regret that you miss the point of my posts, i am a programmer, i work for a company to get money, in order to eat, have a roof above my head, and having the possibility to party with my friends a couple of times a month, spoil my girlfried with some thoughtfull and unexpected gift, so i completely understand the matter from the programmer's point of view, and maybe from time to time I'll succeed in managing my time more efficiently so i could contribute to the freeware and open source comunity. So the need for money, the fact that programmers need to eat, drink, and otherwise enjoy life aside computer related activities (which also require founding for electricity, internet, maintenance, etc) all this is not an issue. I completely understand this. And the desire to create free software.

But i am also a power user, i have knowledge on software and hardware internals, I've met with situations that require tools, i track, download and test software (free software) that can help me with a problem or other hassle-free (or with minimum effort) and i consider myself quite familiar with software terminology and purpose. I also developed some principles that i adhere to it and much is learned from experience and some i developed by myself, and yes, i feel very strong about the right and wrong.

The problem is with terminology. The software found and Donation Coder (the one that requires a 6 month licence and registration to obtain it) is not freeware or donationware in the strict sense, its free software (which is not the same as freeware).

I've spend the last few horus reading on alt.comp.freeware (google groups) and i come to understand some of your points but i still agree with them freeware is freeware and must remain the same, freeware is free software, but free software is not freeware, let me explain a little on that, maybe you'll understand me better ..

Freeware (aside the definition from alt.comp.freeware) is software that you plug and play no hassle no question asked without the need to visit author's page, without guaranties either (I've had my share of bad experiences with purely written software) but it's freeware, that is the purpose of it, no need to register, do something more then run application and expect to run without me being required to license it or anything else. Rest assured that i have enough experience recognize a good application and it throughly browse the author's webpage because i generally find more stuff there, that way i learn about the author, the software, his thought, articles he's written, websites and software he recommends.

Free software covers a larger area (ad-ware, spyware, requestware, registerware) so technically your software is registerware i.e. free software and not freeware.

Donationware, is free software that is released and the user is called upon to support the developer if he wishes, with a donation, but it is not forced upon it in neither way, not by spaming him with requests into persuading him to donate, not by forcing him to give something (like information, by registering on the DC's forum) this solely ejects it from the freeware category.

OK, maybe you can extend the donationware, to make it more .. persuasive to the cause (after all is free software, with the condition that the user has to register on the forum) but it's definitely not freeware!

I have nothing with the programmers, or the software, or the idea to bring users and programmers together, but i fell the freeware and possibly the donationware concepts are threatened. I'd hate to see some time from now the download.com advertising freeware that you can for free 30 days then you'll have to pay if you want to use it for free  :tellme: (some freeware). As for the donationware probably some time from now we're gonna have to buy software (by donating of course) anyway, so you're just a link on the chain.

Rest assured that you have my respect for what you've build, for the comunity you've created, and probably I'll spend some time on the forum as this guy's (app103) testimonial for DC posted on alt.comp.freeware convinced me to look again with a more relaxed eye at the DC comunity.

As for the software, if the tools could have been packed in one exe with one chm, if necessary one general purpose dll, using one ini file to store settings (were appropriate) and no other requirements (like a license key) you would have had a most than satisfied user in me. Now this license stuff is OK, is part of your fidelizing strategy, but its complicated, even wen I'll get the license key, I'll have to carry it around with the program and 'register' the software in every computer i insert my USB Stick .. that would be more than annoying.

Aside the alteration of freeware and donationware concepts in DC's comunity, this i don't like. And in the beginning when I've discovered DC, i didn't like the fact that i had to register in order to use the software, i didn't used it anyway, not even to see what's capable off, as a form of protest (maybe childish and then maybe not) and yet i registered to tell you what was on my mind. I'm glad to see that you welcomed my criticism with ease and even put an effort to explain to me your point of view, but man, leave the websites alone, many accepts a wide range of descriptions and, as an alt.comp.freeware poster said, you could accurately describe your software so the user knows what to expect.  (Now, on download.com only ProcessTamer I've seen to have such a disclamer  8))

Anyway, today before my previous post I've downloaded some of the software and I'll test drive it, maybe in time (since from now on it seems I'll have more free time on my hands) you'll find me an active user on the forum.

Cheers!   :)

PS: DonationCoder is an inspired name "Will code for donations" :Thmbsup: but as you already know, i don't think the same for your donationware   ;)

edyshor

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2007, 01:10:43 PM »
f0dder, some time ago, Einstein wished that he didn't open the pandora's box, now we are on a verge of a 3rd Word War, a nuclear one ...

I know I'm exaggerating with this comparison, but just imagine instaid how would the Word Wide Web look today if W3C hadn't kept the standards in check ?!  :-\

f0dder

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 01:21:57 PM »
edyshor: it's an exaggeration indeed :)

I dunno if I'd call mouser's applications "freeware", but they are free. And if some rigid software site only allows you "freeware, shareware, commercial demo" classifications, well, I think freeware is the one that fits best.

You almost make it sound as if DC is some sort of scam - which it certainly isn't. Otherwise mouser surely has a lot of people fooled :p

As for carrying around on an USB stick, well, if the apps don't already support it, I'm sure mouser wouldn't mind updating the apps so they can read the license file from the application folder - should be a pretty minor fix.
- carpe noctem

Darwin

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 01:27:36 PM »
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I'd hate to see some time from now the download.com advertising freeware that you can for free 30 days then you'll have to pay if you want to use it for free   (some freeware).

I see this happening already - I'm on the same page with you on this one: I hate being lured in by the promise of a "free download" only to discover that it's for a 15 day trial. No arguments with you there...

Thanks again for your thoughtful and thought provoking posts. I am particularly interested in the distinction you draw between freeware and free software. For me the software and the license are secondary to the community (no offence mouser! I love the software, too), which I am very pleased and honoured to be a part of. I hope that whatever your opinion of the software, you continue to be part of the community. If nothing else, you can make further suggestions about the licensing model and contribute to its evolution.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Darwin

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 01:30:27 PM »
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You almost make it sound as if DC is some sort of scam

This was posted as I wrote the above, just wanted to note that it's this subtext on usergroups and other forums that raises my hackles when I read negative posts about donationcoder. I don't get this from edyshor's posts.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

mouser

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 02:10:43 PM »
I know it seems confusing but all of my apps are packaged in self-extracting installers which are zip-compatible.
When you run the installer you should see a message telling you this.

What this means is that instead of runnning the installer you can simply UNZIP the exe from most archive programs (or right-click shell context menu of the installer file), and unzip the contents of the installer setup file.

There you will find all of the files for the program, organized exactly as they should be, and ready to run off of a usb drive etc.  The settings will all be stored in an ini file local to whatever directory you put them in.  No need to have registry access or run the installer.

Furthermore, once you put in a licenser key (if you choose to), it will save it to a file in that same local directory where the exe is on your usb drive, and will be seen from now on as licensed.

TucknDar

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2007, 02:13:56 PM »
I know I'm exaggerating with this comparison, but just imagine instaid how would the Word Wide Web look today if W3C hadn't kept the standards in check ?!  :-\
Out of curiosity, who or what is keeping these freeware, shareware, donationware standards in check?

TucknDar

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2007, 02:18:02 PM »
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I'd hate to see some time from now the download.com advertising freeware that you can for free 30 days then you'll have to pay if you want to use it for free   (some freeware).

I see this happening already - I'm on the same page with you on this one: I hate being lured in by the promise of a "free download" only to discover that it's for a 15 day trial. No arguments with you there...
Yeah, me too! Whenever I search for 'free someutility' or whatever I get a lot of "free download" that is apparently a free trial....  :-\ I think that's a long way from the DC way of doing it, although I did have some similar concerns as edyshor when I first came across DC.

dk70

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2007, 03:08:49 PM »
Reading those FREEWARE fighters complaints about DC I just cant distinguish between supporting a way of distributing software and the need to pay absolutely nothing like in being cheap - no offense to edyshor which seems to have more of an annoyance problem, partly based on technical rules of what freeware is. Not sure it relates to 2007 and how software chain works. Seems to be monetary interest no matter where you look - DC way of getting by is "light" compared to many other "schemes" CCleaner with its Yahoo toolbar (Uh we got lucky, he made a non-toolbar build just for us - it is saved!), free as bait for payware etc. Or may be site of program is getting so much traffic Google Ads kicks in! Wonder if Hijackthis was not sold to Trend Micro had it been DC ware. Winsnap author dont think so http://www.ntwind.co.../viewtopic.php?t=652

Firefox is open source and freeware - also using the biggest money machine on internet. Same which try to guide me to ad-links while I read alt.comp.freeware :) Does not matter because it is freeware and 100% convinient to download and install. Yeah yeah but dont talk about ethics... How many Firefox users are aware they join the party while searching or using default start page? 1 out of 100, may be.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 01:11:31 PM by dk70 »

Ruffnekk

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2007, 02:15:15 AM »
I must say I can see why edyshor thinks our software is not pure freeware, but on the other hand classifying it as anything else isn't an option either. Technically it isn't donationware, because that would *require* a user to donate, right? The problem is that many software listing sites have a couple of categories to choose from, and usually none of them are 'freeware after registration'. In that perspective, freeware is the logical choice to classify our software. It's free, it will always be free and there's no scheme to get money from users. The amount of effort we put in coding our software can not even be compared to the minimal amount of effort needed to get a free license key. On top of that, registering with DC has additional benefits and the license key you get works on all supported software.
Regards,
RuffNekk

Programming is an art form that fights back.

tomos

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2007, 02:37:08 AM »
hopefully not off topic, rather sidestepping the semantics:

when i think about this site,*
how well it's run, - &, how well it runs(!)
I'm always very impressed.

also,
when i think about this site,
I gotta think about the amount of money it must cost to keep it up and running
AND
the amount of time people invest in keeping it up and running - and
looking good too  :-*

what more need i say,
i donate when i can - people can donate if you want, not if you don't ...

* "site" meaning software too  :)
Tom
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 02:39:07 AM by tomos »

edyshor

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Re: not freeware !!!
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2007, 11:55:15 AM »
Technically it isn't donationware, because that would *require* a user to donate, right? The problem is that many software listing sites have a couple of categories to choose from, and usually none of them are 'freeware after registration'.
I'm sorry to see that you haven't read my entire post or you haven't payed attention to what I've written.

The difference between payware and donationware is the fact that, for payware, you have to pay in order to use the software, as for donationware, you are able to use the software without payment, hasslefree, but you are told (if you want) to give a small amount to the coder.

The DC software would be donationware, aside the fact that the user has to give you info about him and get a license key (which contradicts the traditional donationware model).

Now don't jump on me, I've said it before, I completely understand the need for money and the time invested in building great application, but do please choose another description with respect to every user worldwide, and in the cases you have to choose between freeware and shareware on applications sites, i believe is not that hard to include additional explications like the one for ProcessTame on download.com right? :)

These are just my opinions, you are free to do whatever you want, internet is a (mostly) free medium.