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Last post Author Topic: Windows 10 Announced  (Read 152914 times)

Ath

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #600 on: October 09, 2015, 01:42:28 AM »
For those that encounter probelms during installation of Windows 10: 12 Windows 10 install issues -- and what to do about them

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #601 on: October 12, 2015, 03:47:21 PM »
Wow. Microsoft really got my goat this time.  >:(

So, I come home and my partner tells me that her Win7 PC is broken. It's a fairly fast PC and we haven't had any problems so far. She put it to sleep in the afternoon but it just got stuck in limbo for several hours, where the monitors shut down but the fans and the PC were still going. Moving the mouse or typing on the keyboard (e.g. CTRL+ALT+delete) did nothing. The machine was unresponsive.

Eventually I decided to restart it by holding down the power button. But when it restarted, instead of the "Windows wasn't shut down properly, would you like to restart it in Safe mode etc.," nothing happened. The fan came on, but the monitors just went to sleep, as if there was no signal. It looked like the restart didn't do the trick. So I force-shut it down again, but this time I also shut off the power supply, and then pressed the power button while it was off. Then I switched the electricity back on, and booted it.

The PC came on, but Windows refused to load. Instead, there was just a cursor blinking in the top left corner, as if there was no OS recognised. But during boot I didn't see the other boot options, such as enter BIOS etc. After a while the monitors went to sleep, as if there was no signal. I left it like that for some time, as nothing was happening. When I moved the mouse next time, suddenly the monitors woke up, and there was a rather unresponsive mouse pointer against a blank background, and nothing else for a while. When I left it for a while and came back, I caught Windows desktop coming on, but without the prompt for logging on. As if it had just restored itself after hibernation, even though it was forcefully shut off several times. The PC was also being very sluggish at this point.

I looked into Reliability History but I couldn't spot anything terribly unusual. After poking about I decided to uninstall Copernic, as it's been crashing regularly for a while, thinking it might be the culprit. I also decided to uninstall AVG, as that was the only software in Reliability History that was updated today. But before I could uninstall AVG, Windows gave a message, saying some Windows updates have been installed and the PC needs to be restarted.

So, I dutifully restarted the system, and then checked what was this Windows update that has just been installed, especially as I had it set to just download but not install. And this is what greeted me:

  Screenshot - 12_10_2015 , 20_57_27.pngWindows 10 Announced

So could it be that this is why the PC was behaving so oddly? For the whole time this massive 2.8GB file was being downloaded and set up somehow? Probably my partner was putting the PC to sleep just as this massive thing was doing something in the background.

When I looked into the Windows Update window, I was even more incensed. This is what I found.

Screenshot - 12_10_2015 , 20_58_53.pngWindows 10 Announced

This looks really insidious to me. It makes it look like the Win10 installation is nothing more than a usual optional update. It even had the box ticked automatically for it. My partner is not very computer-savvy, so she could have just clicked OK on this 'optional update', as it's called there.

This is beyond the pale in my view. This is trying to trick not too savvy users to upgrade to Win10 even without them realising that that is what they are doing. This is completely counterproductive as far as I am concerned. It is exactly because of this practice that I will never ever upgrade any of my devices to Windows 10 as long as I can avoid it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 03:53:28 PM by dr_andus »

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #602 on: October 12, 2015, 05:48:12 PM »
@dr_andus the type of anguish you describe is why I always disable updates.  As long as Windows 10 has a forced update scheme I will not run it outside a VM where I can just kill the VM if it is hung up like that.

Putting a bunch of nearly untested fixes on in a pile is asking for disaster.  Anyway, I have been saying that since the beginning and people probably filter out all my posts that contain the words "Windows update."   :)

Sorry you got nailed so badly.
'

Shades

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #603 on: October 12, 2015, 08:27:47 PM »
Currently I am too lazy too look it up, but I think it was here on this forum where I read that even if a Windows 7 user indicated that an update to Windows 10 is not desired, MS still pushes out the files for that upgrade (?), because in their mind your 'NO!' means 'maybe later' and still pushes it onto your system, so you can start immediately when you change your mind...

So I am with Miles. Windows updates are applied at my behest, not MS. Meaning I test updates before I deploy, so my systems won't f.ck up. In this regard my track record is much better than that of MS.

tomos

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #604 on: October 13, 2015, 05:39:13 AM »
Currently I am too lazy too look it up, but I think it was here on this forum where I read that even if a Windows 7 user indicated that an update to Windows 10 is not desired, MS still pushes out the files for that upgrade (?), because in their mind your 'NO!' means 'maybe later' and still pushes it onto your system, so you can start immediately when you change your mind...

there were options discussed in a Windows 10 Privacy thread -- how to block certain updates using a script. This post was about Windows 7 -- following posts may also be helpful!
Tom

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #605 on: October 13, 2015, 05:48:54 PM »
...why I always disable updates.

Yeah, I have to start doing that... Thanks.

In this regard my track record is much better than that of MS.

That's a good one!  ;)

there were options discussed in a Windows 10 Privacy thread -- how to block certain updates using a script. This post was about Windows 7 -- following posts may also be helpful!

Thanks for that, I'll have to look into it. I want to remove all these Win10 files and updates. The problem is that MS is making me spending my time doing things I didn't want to spend time on. Why couldn't they just leave me alone? They are turning me from a happy Win7 customer (I just bought a Win7 laptop a few weeks ago) into a grumpy one... I must not be the only one...

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #606 on: October 14, 2015, 09:24:23 PM »
My Win 7 computer anti-virus system wanted me to update last night and because I saw the Win 10 update there, I was very careful not to get it. You have to uncheck the box in the Optional update section and right-click on it and choose "Hide" to be sure you don't get it. I stayed up late to monitor what got updated and was very vigilant and ready to stop such a update if it popped up. It is nice to know that all that effort wasn't for nothing.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 09:34:22 PM by Arizona Hot »

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #607 on: October 14, 2015, 09:31:51 PM »
Big Microsoft Trade-In Deal Gets Users Windows 10 For Less.jpgWindows 10 Announced     

Big Microsoft Trade-In Deal Gets Users Windows 10 For Less                 

With the preceding uproar still in mind, is anyone interested in this offer?


ewemoa

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #608 on: October 14, 2015, 09:35:04 PM »
Wouldn't you have to load it into a VM anyway?  I never hears of Windows running directly on Macs.

May be I misunderstood, but isn't BootCamp one way to run a variety of Windows OS' on Macs?

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #609 on: October 14, 2015, 09:56:28 PM »
Big Microsoft Trade-In Deal Gets Users Windows 10 For Less

With the preceding uproar still in mind, is anyone interested in this offer?

I was seriously considering it when I thought I could trade in my aging netbook. But though it doesn't seem that there are too many limitations on what they'll accept, mine doesn't seem to qualify. My netbook has a 10" screen, but they accept only a minimum of 11.3" for laptops. :(


dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #610 on: October 15, 2015, 06:37:06 PM »
@dr_andus the type of anguish you describe is why I always disable updates.

Apparently disabling the updates may not even do the trick anymore, Win10 installation will still download:

Windows users report Windows 10 upgrades are enforced on their systems - gHacks Tech News

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #611 on: October 16, 2015, 07:26:42 AM »
@dr_andus the type of anguish you describe is why I always disable updates.

Apparently disabling the updates may not even do the trick anymore, Win10 installation will still download:

Windows users report Windows 10 upgrades are enforced on their systems - gHacks Tech News

Just imagine how much fun it will be when everything runs on The Cloud(tm).

Shades

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #612 on: October 16, 2015, 08:02:31 AM »
MS' acknowledgement of this back-firing behavior...

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #613 on: October 16, 2015, 09:37:16 AM »
MS' acknowledgement of this back-firing behavior...

Thanks. I wonder how much of this 'mistake' is due to someone lower down the chain of command being creative under the tremendous pressure of entire MS management coming down on them like a ton of bricks to install Win10 on 1 billion devices in 2 years...

if achievement of that goal is not going as well as they expected, I wouldn't be surprised if the 1-year free upgrade window might be extended or even permanently removed.

IainB

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #614 on: October 17, 2015, 04:22:52 AM »
MS' acknowledgement of this back-firing behavior...
________________________
Thanks. I wonder how much of this 'mistake' is due to someone lower down the chain of command being creative under the tremendous pressure of entire MS management coming down on them like a ton of bricks to install Win10 on 1 billion devices in 2 years...
if achievement of that goal is not going as well as they expected, I wouldn't be surprised if the 1-year free upgrade window might be extended or even permanently removed.
________________________

You may well have hit the nail on the head there. Irrational (you used the euphemism "creative") behaviours induced by fear and panic - that's what Deming demonstrated was a typical outcome when you attempt to impose a numerical "target" (in this case it would seem to be an imagined/irrational "sales target", or something) - a number which is absurd as it has no basis in statistical veracity - on a business process. A common BS euphemism for this is "a stretch quota".

As I wrote in the discussion thread Re: Ethics in Technology
The VW fraud would probably never have eventuated if the problem - the setting of artificial "targets" for diesel engine testing - had not been created in error in the first place by a bloated bureaucracy with apparently little or no understanding of processes in statistical control (Shewhart, Deming).
The fact that the targets were also set at evidently infeasible levels (QED) would have merely served to compound the problem.

This looks very much like a textbook example of the sort of thing that W.E.Deming was on about when he published his 14-point philosophy, where point 11 was:
11. [Eliminate targets with no basis in statistical veracity]
   a) Eliminate work standards (quotas) on the factory floor.
       Substitute leadership.
   b) Eliminate management by objective. Eliminate management by
       numbers, numerical goals. Substitute leadership.

(from Chapter 2 of "Out of the Crisis", by W. Edwards Deming).

However, from experience, I predict that, in common with a great many people, approx. 80% (Pareto Principle) of the people who might read this comment will fail to accept or understand the truth of point 11, primarily because it runs contrary to conventional wisdom, and they will be unlikely to have seen the proof of it in Deming's "Red Beads" teaching experiment. ...
________________________

Unfortunately, the same holds true of management - approx. 80% (Pareto Principle) of them who might read this comment will fail to accept or understand the truth of point 11 - even if you rubbed their noses in it. They would be unable to "get" point 11, if their belief was that "you gotta have targets" (MBO). People will generally tend to prefer to hold onto their beliefs, rather than re-examine them rationally in light of new/conflicting information. This is the point when they cease to be able to learn and it is also an explanation as to why children can be taught to believe any old rubbish you care to toss at them as "fact" - their minds are a blank slate with no preconceptions to rub out, unlike an adult's mind.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 04:29:20 AM by IainB »

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #615 on: October 17, 2015, 07:31:10 AM »
You may well have hit the nail on the head there. Irrational (you used the euphemism "creative") behaviours induced by fear and panic

Especially with all the restructuring in Redmond this likely has a few orders of magnitude more impact than average.  Everybody is sweating the chop.  :)

Shades

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #616 on: October 23, 2015, 09:11:06 AM »
To get rid off the Windows 10 annoyances...

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #617 on: October 23, 2015, 10:38:46 AM »
To get rid off the Windows 10 annoyances...

It would be nice to have a simple tool like that but there just isn't enough information on that site for me to put my trust into that provider.

I don't have a problem with them advertising or requiring an email in exchange for the free tool, but I'd just like to be sure this is not doing something sinister in the background or messing up my machine in some other unintended ways.

P.S. BTW, this is by no means to suggest that I don't trust your judgement, Shades, your contributions and help are much appreciated  :Thmbsup: I was just wondering if you have more info about the trustworthiness of this tool...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 10:44:49 AM by dr_andus »

xtabber

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #618 on: October 23, 2015, 11:59:50 AM »
Woody Leonhard has been chronicling the development of a tool to stop Windows 10 "upgrades" in his InfoWorld blog.

I haven't tried it -- I don't trust Windows Update, so it has always been turned off on all my systems, but I would trust Woody's recommendation.


Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #619 on: October 25, 2015, 06:45:40 AM »

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #620 on: October 25, 2015, 08:09:24 AM »
Woody Leonhard has been chronicling the development of a tool to stop Windows 10 "upgrades" in his InfoWorld blog.

I haven't tried it -- I don't trust Windows Update, so it has always been turned off on all my systems, but I would trust Woody's recommendation.



I see the potential for a "vending machine makers vs slug minters" viscous circle.  We will have turn off tool/countermeasure cycles.  Every Tueday there will be a new countermeasure.  Every Friday the turn off tool will be, shall we say, Updated?   Heh heh heh

tomos

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #621 on: October 25, 2015, 04:26:06 PM »
Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change, Surface Book Vs MacBook Pro And OEM Tensions

that link redirects to a blank page: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/

Anyone know how the "Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change" ?
Tom

ewemoa

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #622 on: October 25, 2015, 04:27:59 PM »
Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change, Surface Book Vs MacBook Pro And OEM Tensions

that link redirects to a blank page: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/

Anyone know how the "Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change" ?

Had similar behavior, but when the original link was pasted in the location area and tried again, it worked here.

Perhaps there's some kind of redirect or cookie check?

ewemoa

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #623 on: October 25, 2015, 04:28:48 PM »
Every Tueday there will be a new countermeasure.  Every Friday the turn off tool will be, shall we say, Updated?   Heh heh heh

...and on the days in between...use another OS or take a break ;)

tomos

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #624 on: October 25, 2015, 04:45:15 PM »
Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change, Surface Book Vs MacBook Pro And OEM Tensions

that link redirects to a blank page: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/

Anyone know how the "Windows 10 Free Upgrade Rules Change" ?

Had similar behavior, but when the original link was pasted in the location area and tried again, it worked here.

Perhaps there's some kind of redirect or cookie check?

ha, now it's working :-/
Tom