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Last post Author Topic: Windows 10 Announced  (Read 153113 times)

app103

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #350 on: July 03, 2015, 02:31:25 PM »
Something's bothering me, if they're only a month away, I'd hope it was rock solid! But it all still sounds like there are fundamental basic bugs going on!

As a former AOL user and all the experiences I had with upgrading to their new releases, I would recommend waiting at least 4 months after public release, before upgrading to Win10. By then you'll have enough reports of issues to know what you'll be getting yourself into, enough official info on what to do about common issues, and Microsoft will have had a chance to fix the big, potentially fatal ones.

I have no plans on being among the first to upgrade, later this month. I have no plans on installing Win10, till maybe after Christmas, since I do need my computer for work and I'd hate to leave my employer high & dry during the height of the Christmas shopping season, while I sort out Win10 upgrading issues.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #351 on: July 03, 2015, 02:53:10 PM »
Something's bothering me, if they're only a month away, I'd hope it was rock solid! But it all still sounds like there are fundamental basic bugs going on!

Ps I wish Mark Russinovich was still on our side! He'd have a few useful things to say! But he's squirreled away into Microsoft now! : (


To add to what App said, when buying a PC preloaded I tried to wait until at least SP1 was already on.  I didn't follow that policy with a Vista machine and it was almost unusable out of the box.  It took me months to tweak it into submission.  This is roughly equivalent to App's advice waiting 4 months.  By then there should be a bunch of fixes issued.  The disadvantage compared to preloaded is you have to install then hope things don't get all confused doing all those updates.  Hopefully there will be some means to install a slipstreamed iso image instead of updates from hell syndrome.


TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #352 on: July 03, 2015, 03:01:21 PM »
I think it's kinda worse than that, and there could be real crocodiles in the water here!
:tellme:

Something like how MS does have bad habits of over-selling the marketing to generate current sales they issue "place-holder editions" of their OS, and then much later fix it up "for real". I remember vaguely how there were complicated reasons all the updates didn't line up in Win 8 and Win 8.1

This has slight tones of "get people talking about ANYTHING other than Windows 8!! Even if it's not ready!!"

Now that some of our decades-old safety habits are getting yanked away from us, I'm dreading this becomes another of MS's "haha, we didn't mean it anyway, our *real* OS is Windows ClearSky." (Because we're getting into Lucy-Charlie Brown territory, what do we think of a company that is scared to call something Windows 9?!)
PlaysForSure and Zune, I'm looking at you!



MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #353 on: July 03, 2015, 03:20:03 PM »
From my point of view they should have released a device OS and dumbed it down for phones and tablets.  Released a Desktop OS only for desktops.  More happy customers all around.  But since hand held crap is expanding and desktop sales shrinking, the tail will wag the whole dog.

Time for me to start brushing up on vim editor.  I can see Linux back on my desktops(when I get some.)  :)

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #354 on: July 03, 2015, 06:06:21 PM »
Has anyone else had activation issues with 10?

Nope. I can't even remember Windows 10 asking me for any activation keys or anything, though I suppose it's possible it asked me when I first installed it several months ago.

When I upgrade, it just upgrades. It doesn't ask me for activation keys again, or say anything to me about activation.


4wd

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #355 on: July 03, 2015, 11:24:18 PM »
Has anyone else had activation issues with 10? All 5 of mine were activated up to build 10158, but even after switching to the updated key, neither build 10159 or 10162 will activate for me.

FWIW, I just installed 10162 in a VM using the Pro key and it activated itself no problems.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #356 on: July 04, 2015, 08:51:34 AM »
Lovely - It's not always good to be special...  There does seem to be quite a few people on the Windows 10 forum that are having this problem, and there was (unconfirmed) mention of a MS systems issue. Supposedly the issue is only with the upgrades, which unfortunately it appears is necessary in order to end up with a copy of Win 10 plain/basic/home edition ... Which is what I need for this round of testing.

Two of the five 10 test machines activated build 10159 shortly after I made the above post, but after then jumping to 10162 they've all jumped back on the shit list. After doing a (Windows 10 File History) test backup, I'm going to try flattening the 10 Home to see if, 1. if I can get it to install as home, and 2. if I can restore it to a usable state.

Innuendo

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #357 on: July 04, 2015, 10:01:51 AM »
As a former AOL user and all the experiences I had with upgrading to their new releases, I would recommend waiting at least 4 months after public release, before upgrading to Win10. By then you'll have enough reports of issues to know what you'll be getting yourself into, enough official info on what to do about common issues, and Microsoft will have had a chance to fix the big, potentially fatal ones.

I've always been a Day One (or before) adopter of Microsoft OSes and historically speaking, their RTM releases are rock solid out of the box. In my experience, the instability starts creeping in once you get tired of looking at that blank desktop and start menu and start installing your apps and drivers, which aren't always programmed to be aware of the new OS.

Your advice of waiting four months is a good rule of thumb if one is cautious, though. That's usually how long it takes for the laziest of third-party developers to get their coding up to snuff and working properly on a new OS.

Any upgrade woes I ever had were cut to a fraction of what they once were once I stopped using a Creative Labs soundcard in my PC.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #358 on: July 04, 2015, 11:01:05 AM »
I've always been a Day One (or before) adopter of Microsoft OSes and historically speaking, their RTM releases are rock solid out of the box.

+1 - I'm planning on having our company completely on 10 by the end of summer. The IT department will jump on day 1 (hence the frenzy of testing now), then the brighter users will get it, then the rest..

(Posting from MS Edge in a Win 10 Home VM)

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #359 on: July 04, 2015, 01:07:30 PM »
I've always been a Day One (or before) adopter of Microsoft OSes and historically speaking, their RTM releases are rock solid out of the box.


Perhaps the difference on Vista is due to the fact I bought HP "Media Center" towers.  The HD was totally hogged by Windows Media Player running mobsync.exe to test if every file in the system was a media file.  Also if you installed from retail media I am sure you were better off than buying a machine preloaded.  Between Norton AV and mobsync trying to take over the machine it was totally useless out of the box.  Later I got another tower running Vista x64 SP1 and it was fine.

Just for grins I compared the state of the system services of the SP1 machine to the system without a service pack after I was done tweaking.  All the settings were exactly the same except 2.  They fixed the usability quotiont quite a bit with the SP.


Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #360 on: July 04, 2015, 02:37:02 PM »
'Minecraft' for Windows 10 unveiled.jpgWindows 10 Announced

'Minecraft' for Windows 10 unveiled

Anyone interested in the Win 10 Minecraft or will you be too tired after upgrading the OS?

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #361 on: July 04, 2015, 04:41:36 PM »
I've always been a Day One (or before) adopter of Microsoft OSes and historically speaking, their RTM releases are rock solid out of the box.


Perhaps the difference on Vista is due to the fact I bought HP "Media Center" towers.  The HD was totally hogged by Windows Media Player running mobsync.exe to test if every file in the system was a media file.  Also if you installed from retail media I am sure you were better off than buying a machine preloaded.  Between Norton AV and mobsync trying to take over the machine it was totally useless out of the box.  Later I got another tower running Vista x64 SP1 and it was fine.

Just for grins I compared the state of the system services of the SP1 machine to the system without a service pack after I was done tweaking.  All the settings were exactly the same except 2.  They fixed the usability quotiont quite a bit with the SP.

Could ProcessTamer have worked there?
Then you can have some cpu cycles left to fix it with?

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #362 on: July 04, 2015, 05:11:28 PM »
Could ProcessTamer have worked there?
Then you can have some cpu cycles left to fix it with?

It wasn't CPU but HD hogging.  I mean it was bad.  Wait 30 seconds for an Explorer window to open.  Which reminds me.  Explorer drag and drop copy was dog slow until the kb fix or SP1.  I resorted to TeraCopy just to keep from gritting my teeth. The other annoyance was I could not get it to install SP1 come hell or high water.  I got so fed up I put Windows 7 on over it.

I had no complaints about Vista x64 other than it didn't have Windows 7 Superbar and there was no way to add it.  I really like the progressbar in the Taskbar Button.  Very cool.  Unfortunately the x64 Vista did not play well with W7 custom install.  It went on but the start menu and some other stuff was seriously messed around.  I restored Vista from an image and just kept it as it was until the end.


Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #363 on: July 05, 2015, 08:43:53 AM »
Strangely massive cruft issue with 10.

So originally I never really thought about it as there was no need - or at least appeared to be no need - to check on the drive space situation. That is until I ran out of it in the office lab on Friday.

The original install footprint (x86pro) was IIRC in the 9GB range ... Which shouldn't have been an issue on the as provisioned 200GB partition. At least until I added 3 more, and tried running a maintenance routine to reclaim the space. So used space appeared as follows:

Original install size: 9GB
After build update (or 3): 25GB
After cleanmgr.exe run (set to kill): 12GB - but .vhdx will only compact to 22GB
After running SDelete.exe -c (this is what overflowed the drive**) .vhdx compacted to 19GB

And finally - given the activation issues - I just deleted the damn thing, and clean installed onto a new .vhdx: 7GB <--???)

No additional software was ever added to the install, so it is only Windows 10 playing games with ~5GB of space. Where is it storing what and why?? The clean install has been running for 24hrs, and is still sitting at it's original ~7GB so I'm assuming it isn't the indexing service(s) using up the space. And trying to get a birds eye view with SpaceSniffer didn't yield anything useful in the way of what was using the space either.



**Minor caveat when running the Sysinternals SDelete.exe tool, is that in the process of "Zeroing Out the Free Space" it will cause a Dynamically Expanding .vhdx to expand to its full configured size. So if you're overlapping the physical drive space by double-booking it ... This will byte you in the ass.



Thus ends todays episode of How to Learn From the Other Guy's F***ups. :D

Innuendo

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #364 on: July 05, 2015, 09:50:13 AM »
Perhaps the difference on Vista is due to the fact I bought HP "Media Center" towers.  The HD was totally hogged by Windows Media Player running mobsync.exe to test if every file in the system was a media file.  Also if you installed from retail media I am sure you were better off than buying a machine preloaded.  Between Norton AV and mobsync trying to take over the machine it was totally useless out of the box.  Later I got another tower running Vista x64 SP1 and it was fine.

Vista was a little sluggish when it was first released. It didn't crash, but it was uncharacteristically slow. Once SP1 came out, Microsoft got performance up to where it was supposed to be. Couple that with the shovelware that most OEMs cram on their machines in order to maximize revenue then it's no surprise you felt like you were trying to run in molasses.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #365 on: July 05, 2015, 11:10:55 AM »
Perhaps the difference on Vista is due to the fact I bought HP "Media Center" towers.  The HD was totally hogged by Windows Media Player running mobsync.exe to test if every file in the system was a media file.  Also if you installed from retail media I am sure you were better off than buying a machine preloaded.  Between Norton AV and mobsync trying to take over the machine it was totally useless out of the box.  Later I got another tower running Vista x64 SP1 and it was fine.

Vista was a little sluggish when it was first released. It didn't crash, but it was uncharacteristically slow. Once SP1 came out, Microsoft got performance up to where it was supposed to be. Couple that with the shovelware that most OEMs cram on their machines in order to maximize revenue then it's no surprise you felt like you were trying to run in molasses.

The annoying part was that most of the problems could have been fixed with tweaks.  The slow file copy needed a code fix.  But the state of the services indicated they just shoved it out the door.  Since Vista was a departure from XP it required a bit of time and study to learn what to tweak.  Probably why it wasn't done somewhere along the line.  Why pay someone when the end user will tweak it for free?  Oh well.  I learned about Vista and ended up on all those W7 W8 W10 forums as well as Vistax64 forum.  :)

4wd

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #366 on: July 05, 2015, 10:10:22 PM »
**Minor caveat when running the Sysinternals SDelete.exe tool, is that in the process of "Zeroing Out the Free Space" it will cause a Dynamically Expanding .vhdx to expand to its full configured size. So if you're overlapping the physical drive space by double-booking it ... This will byte you in the ass.

Would using cipher /W <drive> be any better?

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #367 on: July 06, 2015, 12:57:43 AM »
No additional software was ever added to the install, so it is only Windows 10 playing games with ~5GB of space. Where is it storing what and why?? The clean install has been running for 24hrs, and is still sitting at it's original ~7GB so I'm assuming it isn't the indexing service(s) using up the space. And trying to get a birds eye view with SpaceSniffer didn't yield anything useful in the way of what was using the space either.

My guess is that it keeps separate "images" (snapshots) so it can revert to a known working system if an upgrade goes bad.


Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #368 on: July 06, 2015, 07:32:22 AM »
**Minor caveat when running the Sysinternals SDelete.exe tool, is that in the process of "Zeroing Out the Free Space" it will cause a Dynamically Expanding .vhdx to expand to its full configured size. So if you're overlapping the physical drive space by double-booking it ... This will byte you in the ass.

Would using cipher /W <drive> be any better?


Unknown. It's really not a encryption/decryption issue I'm trying to address. It's an issue with compacting a .vhd/.vhdx drive (that has dynamically expanded due to the build update) to reclaim the unused free space. The SDelete -c run was supposed to assist with that according to a TechNet article about how to compact an uncooperative .vhd. And while it did do just that, it also shutdown the lab by overflowing the Host drive ... Which is a - perhaps in retrospect obvious - behavior that was not mentioned in the article.



No additional software was ever added to the install, so it is only Windows 10 playing games with ~5GB of space. Where is it storing what and why?? The clean install has been running for 24hrs, and is still sitting at it's original ~7GB so I'm assuming it isn't the indexing service(s) using up the space. And trying to get a birds eye view with SpaceSniffer didn't yield anything useful in the way of what was using the space either.

My guess is that it keeps separate "images" (snapshots) so it can revert to a known working system if an upgrade goes bad.

I thought of that, but there is nothing I can see. cleanmgr.exe took care of Windows.old and $Windows.~BT, and I checked for shadow copies and file system Previous Versions ... Nothing, nothing, and nothing.

Right now I've got 2 clean loaded 10162 VMs, one pro, one home. Both are sitting at just over the 7GB mark. I'm going to keep a weary eye on them to see if/when one of them starts to bloat, to see if I can figure out why.

TaoPhoenix

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ayryq

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #370 on: July 12, 2015, 06:20:34 AM »
Am I the only one for whom jump-list (both pinned and frequent) items on the File Explorer taskbar icon do not work? I "pin" all sorts of things and none of them—except "This PC"—open File Explorer or do anything. The same items in the "Quick Access" sidebar work fine, though. This has been the case for the last half-dozen builds or so… not quite sure when it started.

It's the sort of really frustrating bug that I'd think would have been commented on (and fixed) if it were common.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #371 on: July 12, 2015, 11:17:19 AM »
Build 10166 now available on the Fast Ring.

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #372 on: July 14, 2015, 11:47:35 AM »
Even if Windows 10 is a success, Windows 13 will still be doomed. At least with that number.

rgdot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #373 on: July 14, 2015, 11:58:22 AM »
Even if Windows 10 is a success, Windows 13 will still be doomed. At least with that number.

They will skip it, of course  :D

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #374 on: July 14, 2015, 12:56:43 PM »
Even if Windows 10 is a success, Windows 13 will still be doomed. At least with that number.

They will skip it, of course  :D

Didn't you hear?  This is the last version of Windows.  No triskaidekaphobia, no worries.  :)