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Last post Author Topic: Windows 10 Announced  (Read 134697 times)

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #150 on: May 01, 2015, 04:36:15 AM »
I'm not really interested in exploring Windows 10 as an OS. Whereas I felt that Windows Vista/7 brought enough new features and nifty design changes that I was more than willing to jump the ship from XP. But thus far I don't see anything in Windows 10 that is appealing enough to make me want it in place of Windows 7.

I'm hoping this means that the codebase has been even further cleaned up! My theory is then in the nature of "what were they even working on then?", if not for general "under the hood stuff".

I'm just hoping they're not building any really slimy tricks like hardcoding disincentives to run Linux!

:mad:

tomos

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #151 on: May 01, 2015, 04:57:34 AM »
Spartan is now called Edge - or maybe 'The Edge' (?).
May be findable searching for that...
Tom

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #152 on: May 01, 2015, 06:01:58 AM »
Another sad thing is that I've gotten to the point with Windows 10 that I did with Ubuntu a few years ago. I get all excited about installing a new version, but once it's installed I just kind of look at the fresh/pristine desktop and think "Now what?"

Yeah.  I put on a few Linux distros to get a look.  The frustrating thing is the main reason was to see some Glass as nice as Vista or W7.  But I couldn't get much to work without getting into too much minutia.  Esp. in a VM on a Laptop it is so slow I don't have the patience to configure stuff.  I knew some Linux back in the late 90s early 2000s.  I've forgotten most of it.  I haven't compiled a kernel in forever.  :)

When I get a computer room with a big bench/desk with 1/2 dozen machines then maybe I'll see something. By then the pizzaz will likely be sucked out of Windows.  It will have 2 "colors."  Gray and light gray.  :)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #153 on: May 01, 2015, 06:45:36 AM »
Spartan is now called Edge - or maybe 'The Edge' (?).
May be findable searching for that...

Talk about a stupid name... Yikes! I liked Spartan, It conveyed a lightweight nature ... MS Edge just sounds silly to me. *Sigh*

But it's still listed as [Modern Application] Project Spartan in 10074 (just checked). It just takes you to a "Introducing Microsoft Edge" home page.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #154 on: May 01, 2015, 08:30:52 AM »
MS Edge just sounds silly to me. *Sigh*

Does it say how many shaves you can expect before you have to throw it away?  :)

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2015, 05:04:31 PM »

superboyac

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #156 on: May 08, 2015, 12:39:35 PM »
I just heard that Windows 10 would be the last version of the OS.  But not like it's not going to be updated anymore, it will still get regular updates.  It's just not going to have regular OS updated versions anymore.  What does this mean??

It sounds like just a nomenclature thing, right?  Instead of Windows 10, Windows 11...etc.
It will be Windows 10 v1, Windows 10 v2, Windows 10 v3, etc.  Or some kind of service pack, or just KB updates, I don't know.

And how does this relate to their cloud desires?  Just wondering...

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #157 on: May 08, 2015, 02:35:12 PM »
I just heard that Windows 10 would be the last version of the OS.  But not like it's not going to be updated anymore, it will still get regular updates.  It's just not going to have regular OS updated versions anymore.  What does this mean??

Sounds to me like the way Chrome OS works now. You get your updates, but unless you're really curious, you'll never need to know what version your OS is or what the update number is. The device is just an appliance that is kept updated remotely. Most users may not even realise their system has been updated when they restart their machine.

superboyac

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #158 on: May 08, 2015, 03:22:41 PM »
I just heard that Windows 10 would be the last version of the OS.  But not like it's not going to be updated anymore, it will still get regular updates.  It's just not going to have regular OS updated versions anymore.  What does this mean??
Sounds to me like the way Chrome OS works now. You get your updates, but unless you're really curious, you'll never need to know what version your OS is or what the update number is. The device is just an appliance that is kept updated remotely. Most users may not even realise their system has been updated when they restart their machine.
I see.  That's how my surface tablet works, too.  It's ok, I suppose.  I keep feeling like I'm eventually just going to go Linux soon.  The problem with all this automation is that it moves away from the tinkering aspect for computer aficionados like me.  I don't always install all the updates right away, I wait and read about the experiences first.  it's not uncommon for significant updates to have issues that don't get fixed for a while.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #159 on: May 08, 2015, 03:31:37 PM »
And how does this relate to their cloud desires?  Just wondering...

If there is no more shrinkwrap they are in complete control. I suspect all you will be able to do is save your current state as an image, clone it to a new drive or use it for repair.  But the hobbyist/programmer is probably going to end up on another OS except for stuff like smart phones where he will use the phone like everyone else.

The gutting of the Glass was the tell tale.  Why do all this glitzy looking desktop stuff if it won't run on phones?  The trouble will happen when the online fix is broken.  You will boot your device from emergency USB or wireless to get to the network fix.  When the fix makes it worse like half the world will be down at the same time.

Just imagine the virus attacks when the whole shootin' match is in the cloud.   :down:

dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #160 on: May 08, 2015, 06:12:58 PM »
it's not uncommon for significant updates to have issues that don't get fixed for a while.

Tell me about it. Google OS (and/or app) updates keep breaking Chrome Remote Desktop's multi-monitor support for my scenario, and every time they take weeks and sometimes several months to fix it (and currently it's been broken for months). Hugely annoying. I can only presume that not enough people complain about it, so it's not a priority for them to fix.

As for my PC, I'll be reluctant to upgrade from Win7 if MS goes down the same road.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #161 on: May 08, 2015, 07:29:30 PM »
I just heard that Windows 10 would be the last version of the OS.  But not like it's not going to be updated anymore, it will still get regular updates.  It's just not going to have regular OS updated versions anymore.  What does this mean??

It sounds like just a nomenclature thing, right?  Instead of Windows 10, Windows 11...etc.
It will be Windows 10 v1, Windows 10 v2, Windows 10 v3, etc.  Or some kind of service pack, or just KB updates, I don't know.

And how does this relate to their cloud desires?  Just wondering...

I was gonna bring this up too.

It will be like service packs on experimental steroids, and what little I've skimmed of the tech community def has concerns about it!

I generally don't care about security updates - they just do their thing and go sit there.

But these proposed "quarter-OS turbo updates" do bother me because I can absolutely forsee at least one of them being done wrong and then it will be hell to pay to clean up and I don't have the skillz for that!

:o

app103

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2015, 07:20:19 PM »
Quote
"Every three years or so Microsoft would sit down and create 'the next great OS'," he said.

"The developers would be locked away and out would pop a product based on what the world wanted three years ago."

Microsoft also had to spend a huge amount of money and marketing muscle to convince people that they needed this new version, and that it was better than anything that had come before, he explained.

Moving to a situation in which Windows is a constantly updated service will break out of this cycle, and let Microsoft tinker more with the software to test new features and see how customers like them, he added.

Most of the revenue generated by Windows for Microsoft came from sales of new PCs and this was unlikely to be affected by the change, Mr Kleynhans pointed out.

"Overall this is a positive step, but it does have some risks," he said.

"Microsoft will have to work hard to keep generating updates and new features, he said, adding that questions still remained about how corporate customers would adapt to the change and how Microsoft would provide support.

"It doesn't mean that Windows is frozen and will never move forward again," Mr Kleynhans told the BBC.

"Indeed we are about to see the opposite, with the speed of Windows updates shifting into high gear."

http://m.bbc.com/new.../technology-32658340

Ok, here it is, the reason why Microsoft is offering a free upgrade to W10 for everyone, even pirates, is because they make very little on the sale of individual licenses direct to consumers upgrading their OS and make most of their money from the consumer market, via sales of new PCs with Windows preinstalled. And since this is unlikely to change in the future, why not make upgrading free?

So, it's very likely that the license for W10 will be tied to the PC it is installed on and non-transferrable to another PC, should the one you have die.

They say this will be the last version of windows and from here on out, there will be regular updates and improvements made to the OS, which every user will likely be entitled to for the life of their computer...an ever evolving version of Windows.

And since most consumers that pirate Windows are doing it to upgrade an existing system they purchased with Windows preinstalled, this should eliminate that entire category of piracy and even encourage those that usually opt to not upgrade, due to the cost of a new license, to keep their OS current.

The only people that will end up having to pay for a separate license of Win10 for each of their computers, are likely to be those that build their own, those that purchase a PC without an OS, and businesses that normally buy licenses in bulk.

So, for the foreseeable future, if you want to save money as a consumer, make sure your next PC is built to last, both in quality of hardware and specs. You want it to last as long as possible without it dying or becoming obsolete.

And this is good money saving advice, even if Microsoft wasn't planning on these changes. Buying or building a new PC every 3-5 years will cost you more in the long run than it would if you only did it every 7-8 years, regardless of what OS you plan on running on it. So this advice even applies to Linux users.

The main thing Windows using consumers have to worry about now is if Win10 sucks so bad that they don't want to use it (in which case you move on to another OS), or if Microsoft starts losing too much money if the sale of new PCs with Windows pre-installed takes a nosedive, and they decide to release a subscription based Win11 at some point in the future. (which again, you can move on to another OS)

So, in the long term this will either be great for Microsoft and Windows users, or great for Linux and Apple, and only time will tell.


dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2015, 04:11:19 AM »
So, for the foreseeable future, if you want to save money as a consumer, make sure your next PC is built to last, both in quality of hardware and specs. You want it to last as long as possible without it dying or becoming obsolete.

This is my fear though: MS will be able to make your hardware remotely obsolete by releasing an update that makes some key features inoperable or key software non-functional, to force you to buy a new device, whenever they need some extra revenue.

Currently you have the option to stick with XP or Win7, as long as your machine is working, sticking with old but functional software.

Case in point: I have a perfectly functioning iPad 1 with an amazing battery that is useless to me because the main apps I used decided to abandon that device once Apple made its OS unupdatable for those specs.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2015, 05:40:09 AM »
The other thing to consider is with W8 and later you take the plunge with GPT and UEFI.  Better technologies for the future sure.  But the transition is no fun. I've been trying to boot VHD OSs with W8.0 and so far only Windows 2012 Server R2 has worked.  At that I would have to install all the drivers for my Laptop.

From what I am told Windows 7 flavors that support VHD booting. it just works.  Also the only "modern" app I use is Weather.  I have a web browser that does the same thing.  I am carrying around all that Start Screen and App layer of crap just because MS wants it there.  I don't even own a smart phone.

One of these days I'll put W7 Pro on this thing if I find I can do the VHD bit with it.

Thirdly I don't know how many PCs are broken in the forums by auto updates.  I think the percentages say that if I leave Windows Update on automatic it will break my system much sooner and more surely than some virus coming down the information highway.

They should have stopped at lucky 7. For a few more years anyway. :)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 07:32:07 AM by MilesAhead »

mahesh2k

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2015, 05:55:15 AM »
If it's just for excel, word and browser work, I don't think MS will lose any customer even with Cloud OS.

But from monthly payment type of plans for OS, I don't think other than first world countries, it'll be much interest anyone.

In fact, some of the small business companies will move to linux or unix variants to save costs. After-all paying monthly for the sake of using OS, is financial leak. And any sane business benefits from closing such leak.

This will also help Apple and Linux, because developers will move to these OS, as not all the developers write code for profit. With locked in cloud OS, and developer certificates and subscription stuff, it only makes it expensive for coders to build stuff for MS from here onwards.

app103

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2015, 09:58:35 AM »
If it's just for excel, word and browser work, I don't think MS will lose any customer even with Cloud OS.

But from monthly payment type of plans for OS, I don't think other than first world countries, it'll be much interest anyone.

In fact, some of the small business companies will move to linux or unix variants to save costs. After-all paying monthly for the sake of using OS, is financial leak. And any sane business benefits from closing such leak.

This will also help Apple and Linux, because developers will move to these OS, as not all the developers write code for profit. With locked in cloud OS, and developer certificates and subscription stuff, it only makes it expensive for coders to build stuff for MS from here onwards.

I think you have a good 10 years before you'd have to worry about the possibility of a subscription based OS from Microsoft. I think the only ones that may have to pay for a subscription would be Enterprise users, and that wouldn't be for OS licensing and usage...it would be for support, which they would likely have to pay for no matter what OS they are using, including Linux.

So, for the foreseeable future, if you want to save money as a consumer, make sure your next PC is built to last, both in quality of hardware and specs. You want it to last as long as possible without it dying or becoming obsolete.

This is my fear though: MS will be able to make your hardware remotely obsolete by releasing an update that makes some key features inoperable or key software non-functional, to force you to buy a new device, whenever they need some extra revenue.

Currently you have the option to stick with XP or Win7, as long as your machine is working, sticking with old but functional software.

Case in point: I have a perfectly functioning iPad 1 with an amazing battery that is useless to me because the main apps I used decided to abandon that device once Apple made its OS unupdatable for those specs.

I really wouldn't worry about Microsoft releasing an update with the intention of making a large number of systems obsolete, just to force people to buy a new computer. I would worry more about the app and web developers increasing the bloat and resource usage till you are forced to buy a new machine, just to be capable of having enough ram installed to check your email.

In 2008, there was nothing to stop me from playing flash games on my old PC, except the flash games themselves, nothing to stop me from using most web apps except the heavy reliance on Javascript that required a lot more ram than the PC was capable of having installed. Microsoft didn't do that to get me to buy a new PC. They had no control over that.

You think Microsoft forces people to build stuff like this so people would be forced to buy a new computer with a preinstalled copy of Windows? http://www.sbs.com.au/theboat/

And besides, there will always be consumers that go right for the lower price tag of a low spec machine that is destined to last 2 years, at most. There is no shortage of wasteful fools in this world, willing to buy cheap crap for now, repeatedly, over paying more for something built to last.

This is why discount stores still sell plenty of pairs of crappy $15 sneakers that fall apart in a month. There is no shortage of people willing to blow $180 a year by buying 12 pairs of them, over spending $70 on a single pair that would last them more than a year. And they actually think they are saving money with that $15 price tag. They don't really understand the first thing about frugality.

And while you and I might actually opt to upgrade the hardware in an existing machine, when it's needed, they never will. They toss the old and buy a whole new machine. Hell, I know people that would rather buy a new laptop every year, than clean the malware off the old one to make it usable again. Microsoft will still make plenty of money from them.

Frugal people are a minority, while wasteful fools pretty much describes most of the general population.

mahesh2k

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #167 on: May 13, 2015, 12:30:02 PM »
Quote
Frugal people are a minority, while wasteful fools pretty much describes most of the general population.

 :up:


TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #168 on: May 13, 2015, 02:14:22 PM »
This is why discount stores still sell plenty of pairs of crappy $15 sneakers that fall apart in a month. There is no shortage of people willing to blow $180 a year by buying 12 pairs of them, over spending $70 on a single pair that would last them more than a year. And they actually think they are saving money with that $15 price tag. They don't really understand the first thing about frugality.

Not sure if this will drift too far off topic, but for me at least shoes are in their own weird category. Last winter I bought a pair of cheap shoes knowing full well I wasn't getting efficient value or anything, knowing they'd disintegrate kinda fast, but merely to kick "February's problem" into "May's problem", when I gauged (correctly) I would simply be in better emotional shape to put the work in to re-deal with with the problem. (Turned out, I had some "emergency sneakers" in my cache of supplies in my lair, and I think they have lasted almost a year (with very light usage, to be sure.)) But Fairly Soon Now, I do plan to go get some good new shoes with value.

So maybe in the comp world, people might dump $400 into a netbook with the same strategy, knowing it's not a true value, but just because their old machine tanked or something, and they just want to bump the clock while slowly thinking about a real replacement. And also, like me, waiting to try to get some crucial "state of the industry" knowledge that only appears with the passage of time.


MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #169 on: May 13, 2015, 03:23:36 PM »

This is why discount stores still sell plenty of pairs of crappy $15 sneakers that fall apart in a month.

Heh.  First time I read this I saw speakers and thought about how my crappy $15 speakers lasted a few years.  :)  I agree on the shoes.  Rockport Walking Shoes were the best I ever owned.  I wore them all day every day and used no other shoes/slippers.  Got 10 years out of 'em.  :)

The worst is when I see people on the street who have had their shoes stolen.  You can tell because they are wearing socks with $1.95 flip flops.   :down:

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #170 on: May 20, 2015, 04:19:26 PM »

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #171 on: May 21, 2015, 01:07:14 AM »
In Edge [aka Project Spartan], the new tab page -- which appears whenever the user requests a new tab -- is much busier, filled not only with images of the most-frequently-visited websites, but also news and other content from MSN, as well as apps Microsoft happens to highlight.

Ew... :mad:


dr_andus

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #172 on: May 21, 2015, 05:00:48 AM »
In Edge [aka Project Spartan], the new tab page -- which appears whenever the user requests a new tab -- is much busier, filled not only with images of the most-frequently-visited websites, but also news and other content from MSN, as well as apps Microsoft happens to highlight.

Ew... :mad:

Doesn't sound very Spartan... I wonder why? Then I read on:

Quote
The latter is yet another hint at how aggressive Microsoft will be in promoting Windows Store apps -- one of the biggest revenue generators in the company's strategy to monetize the increasingly-free OS.

MilesAhead

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #173 on: May 21, 2015, 05:41:30 AM »
Build 10122 for PCs released to Fast Ring

http://blogs.windows...build-10122-for-pcs/

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Windows 10 Announced
« Reply #174 on: May 21, 2015, 10:06:38 AM »
Doesn't sound very Spartan... I wonder why? Then I read on:

But let's just suppose the engine is good.

The same way IE wandered into everything, can someone like Maxthon grab the engine minus all the MS marketing junk, and re-skin it?