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Do we have any musical people on DC?
40hz:
It also makes it difficult, depending on the music even impossible, for me to sing and play at the same time.
-Vurbal (December 09, 2014, 07:39 AM)
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FWIW that is a very common situation with many, if not most, bass players. Bass players that can simultaneously sing acceptably while holding down a bassline seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Possibly too many brain centers engaged for most people (or at least bassists) to handle at the same time.
Don't know if you've run into this as often as I have - but one of the first questions I usually got asked when auditioning as a bass player was: "Do you sing?" And if I answered in the affirmative, the very next question was: "At the same time?" Which I think nicely illustrates (a) playing bass while singing is not all that common; and (b) you can never have enough vocal talent in your band.
I do remember seeing (long time ago) an early draft study about something like "split roles" in musical performance that was trying to find what (if any) neurological basis there was for some musicians being able to handle multiple roles (instrumentalist/vocalist) in a musical context. I don't know if it was ever completed. Or if it was, and came to no conclusion. I tried a search but I can't seem to find anything. Maybe I just half remembered it from a conversation I had with one of my GF's cohorts when she was getting her Masters in experimental congnitive psych...
theGleep:
Wow. It's nice to know that my inability to sing and play at the same time isn't an anomaly!
(Actually, I find that *SOMETIMES* I can sing while I'm playing...but it's often that it's just a couple of vocal lines, then I have to go back to just playing)
Vurbal:
It also makes it difficult, depending on the music even impossible, for me to sing and play at the same time.
-Vurbal (December 09, 2014, 07:39 AM)
--- End quote ---
FWIW that is a very common situation with many, if not most, bass players. Bass players that can simultaneously sing acceptably while holding down a bassline seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Possibly too many brain centers engaged for most people (or at least bassists) to handle at the same time.
Don't know if you've run into this as often as I have - but one of the first questions I usually got asked when auditioning as a bass player was: "Do you sing?" And if I answered in the affirmative, the very next question was: "At the same time?" Which I think nicely illustrates (a) playing bass while singing is not all that common; and (b) you can never have enough vocal talent in your band.
I do remember seeing (long time ago) an early draft study about something like "split roles" in musical performance that was trying to find what (if any) neurological basis there was for some musicians being able to handle multiple roles (instrumentalist/vocalist) in a musical context. I don't know if it was ever completed. Or if it was, and came to no conclusion. I tried a search but I can't seem to find anything. Maybe I just half remembered it from a conversation I had with one of my GF's cohorts when she was getting her Masters in experimental congnitive psych...
-40hz (December 09, 2014, 08:07 AM)
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In my case it's a little more extreme than usual. I have almost no capacity for task switching, which essentially means I have to learn the vocals and bassline for a song as one single part, where some people can learn to simply (note that I call it simple rather than easy) switch from one to the other.
Ironically, if I could do that it would solve my problem of being able to be a front man. It's amazing the distance simply playing an instrument puts between me and the audience.
On an unrelated note, there's a funny story about the one song I used to sing lead on. When I started playing professionally, my new bandmates sat down with me and taught me about 30 simple 3 chord songs over the course of 2 days. They talked about playing Taking Care Of Business, but didn't know all the lyrics. I mentioned that I knew them, thinking I could be helpful and write them down, at which point they decided that should be the first song I would sing.
Fast forward a couple months. I've never even thought about singing anything besides backup vocals and although we all know Taking Care Of Business, we've never worked on it together. We have been playing 4 sets a night, 5 nights a week in a little out of the way hotel bar - usually to so few people it was more of an extended rehearsal.
One night a bunch of nursing students come in after final exams. After they've been drinking an hour or so, we're going on break and one of them catches up to me and asks if we play Taking Care Of Business. Without really even thinking about it, I told her yes, and from that night on I did.
Personally, I think we butchered it every time . Partly it was how bad I thought my oversimplified bassline sounded, and partly it was just the fact it's just hard to pull off with a 3 piece. It always went over well, though, which is ultimately the only thing that really matters.
40hz:
Wow. It's nice to know that my inability to sing and play at the same time isn't an anomaly!
-theGleep (December 09, 2014, 09:33 AM)
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Hope not. I can't really - and I am the last person in the world you'd consider unique! ;D
(Actually, I find that *SOMETIMES* I can sing while I'm playing...but it's often that it's just a couple of vocal lines, then I have to go back to just playing)
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I sorta can. Just not very well. Certainly not what I'd consider performance worthy. But that never stopped Paul McCartney. Listen to an isolated Beatles bass line and you'll hear him muffing the time and hitting technically wrong notes all over the place. But it didn't matter. What he played worked within the context of the song. And he had that unique voice which never screwed up anything on the vocal tracks. Ever.
There's a lesson there I think. 8)
In my case it's a little more extreme than usual. I have almost no capacity for task switching, which essentially means I have to learn the vocals and bassline for a song as one single part, where some people can learn to simply (note that I call it simple rather than easy) switch from one to the other.
Ironically, if I could do that it would solve my problem of being able to be a front man. It's amazing the distance simply playing an instrument puts between me and the audience.
-Vurbal (December 09, 2014, 09:36 AM)
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Even without the challenge you have I still can't very well. I can do harmonies just fine. And since I enjoy adding an occasional harmony part, as well as being able to come up with counter-melodies in my sleep, not being able to "take lead" doesn't bother me in the least. I have never once wanted to be the frontman in a group. Not my thing, although I have also never felt distanced from the audience. There's always one attractive woman in the crowd who is really into the bassline. I'll briefly make eye contact to say "hello," then spend the rest of the set playing for her. It's an approach to bass playing that has stood me in good stead over the years. Two guesses how much my guitarist GF is into the bassline... ;)
I think my two biggest problems with playing bass and singing lead come down to (a) my early musical training; and, (b) a certain hangup I have...
When I was first taught an instrument, my instructor (an old school jazz man) had me sing everything I was going to play. His feeling was you needed to hear and feel in your innermost soul what you wanted to play on a bass. Once you could sing it, playing it became a "simple" matter of linking your hand to the voice you heard in your head. He described the process as "Linking your soul and heart and ears and hands with the mind of God." (He came out of a Gospel background so he used a good deal of religious imagery and metaphors when he taught.) When he was in a less divinely inspired frame of mind he'd say: "You gotta learn to sing through your instrument, kid. Everything else is just showin' or jerkin' off."
Whatever and however - it worked for me. If I hear it and I can sing or hum it - even just in my head - I can almost immediately play it. At least in most cases. Or with a try or two. But now the problem is, whenever I vocalize something (especially with lyrics), my hands immediately try to follow it. And there's few times when anything sounds more bozo than the bass suddenly playing the main melody in a song. Same goes for playing in parallel with the melody line (even for a bar or two) except (maybe) for emphasis. Or to create a special effect.
My previously mentioned hangup is I'm into tone. Almost to the point of mania. If I'm singing a lead line I want to primarily concentrate on vocal tone and expression. And the words. I myself can't do that while playing bass. Not enough brainpower or rapid task switching capabilities I guess. And when playing bass - as the bassist - I want to primarily concentrate on the bass tone. Doing a vocal harmony doesn't interfere (too much) with that. But I don't have to sing every song. Or sing all the way through it like the frontman or lead vocalist does. So I can put my hands on autopilot and do a harmony line for four or so bars without getting too antsy about it. But I never offer to sing. And I'll only do it when it's truly needed for the song. Or I'm not playing bass.
But that's me. I have my own take on the role and function of the bassist in a group. (Don't even get me started on my theory of "strut & glide"when it comes to creating a bass part! ;D We'll never get out of here.)
Take all this with many grains of salt. A nice Margaritas in fact. :) :Thmbsup:
40hz:
Personally, I think we butchered it every time . Partly it was how bad I thought my oversimplified bassline sounded, and partly it was just the fact it's just hard to pull off with a 3 piece. It always went over well, though, which is ultimately the only thing that really matters.
-Vurbal (December 09, 2014, 09:36 AM)
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Absolutely! That is the attitude of a professional performance musician regardless of the level of musicianship displayed. It's not just about us and what we think. What the audience expects (and gets) is the other part of the equation.
:Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:
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