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Want to make some extra coin? Like a LOT of extra coin? BIG BOUNTY!
tomos:
Dont want to take the thread too much off-topic, but chewing on these:
Kind of like C. S. Lewis' famous quote:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.-C. S. Lewis
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...Now why do you recon that keeps happening? Is/was it a flaw in the "system" ... Or maybe was it (human nature) just us?
-Stoic Joker (May 19, 2014, 11:47 AM)
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ties in very much with your earlier brilliant comment:
... we also suffer the most self-righteous desire to inflict our will on our surroundings.
-Stoic Joker (May 19, 2014, 06:53 AM)
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I dont believe it's human nature, but, along with the whole idea (or abuse of the idea) of power over others - hmm...
I think all of our current problems go back to two things:
# the 'scaling' of society - a family/small-tribal group probably originally worked much more effectively than any of todays societies/states - I think we're still struggling with that evolution of scale.
# language: language is a huge (and wonderful) development, but allows us to kid ouselves about an awful lot of things...
40hz:
That's life in the big city, the law of the jungle, life on the streets, or just me being wordy and pragmatic at the same time. You yourself have said not to try solving a people problem with technology ... And that too agrees with the other. Because the problem lies with the wanton desire to circumvent the system...not the system itself. Sure it's human nature to be curious and explore the limits. I just think it's incredibly foolish to keep trying to gloss over and ignore the existence of the predatory aspects of human nature.
-Stoic Joker (May 19, 2014, 11:47 AM)
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I didn't so much say not to try to solve people problems with technology as I said not to confuse or conflate a technical problem with a people problem. It's a small but important difference. You can always "solve" a people problem with technology through the simple expedient of using technology to eliminate "the people." There's been enough cases of deliberate genocide in the last thirty years to indicate it's becoming a popular option in some places.
I don't see "animal" instinct or cosmic levels of "evil" when I look at most of what is going on. What I do see is a lot of laziness, refusal to take responsibility, lack of civility, fear (as in angst), impatience, and sloppiness in our own behavior, and our behavior towards each other. I think we sometimes wish it were a "law of nature" that we be that way - because that would provide a convenient excuse for all sorts of bad behavior - and a justification for all sorts of pre-emptive and repressive responses on the part of those in power to prevent or mitigate them.
To my mind, that's a setup - a blatantly rigged no-win game - and one I choose not to play.
So I don't think I'm glossing over bad behaviors or certain people's proclivity to indulge in them. People do bad things. No argument from me on that point. But what I do disagree with is that any of this is beyond our personal ability to control when it comes to our own behavior. To say "it's human nature" means it can't be changed. And I don't see that. The human brain is like a piece of putty. People change their thinking all the time. And other people often change (or at least try to change it) for them.
And I don't think that "will to power" thing that gets tossed around is all that real for the vast majority of the population. Very few people want power as in "power for the sake of power." What they do want is to not have to feel afraid... or feel pain... or suffer want. Most just want a high level personal security as far as I can see. And it's the actions they take to get there which often bear strange fruit. But that's more a side effect or "unintended consequence" rather than an 'end' - or "the original plan."
So no...I don't think we're animals, or monsters, or rabid rabbits that need to be penned in and watched lest we all kill each other. I just think we get lazy, and tired, and impatient, and afraid - and we do counterproductive things to ourselves, and each other, as a result.
It'd be nice if it were all more "cosmic." But it's incredibly banal from where I'm sitting. And easily dealt with if you want to fix it.
The real problem is the excuses we make for it, and the psychological difficulties we encounter any time we try to change what we're currently doing. Because feeling secure is what we seem to want more than anything. Even if that security is based on feeling insecure - because at least that way you've established something (i.e. paranoia) as a given.
Just my :two: anyway. 8)
tomos:
I don't see "animal" instinct or cosmic levels of "evil" when I look at most of what is going on. What I do see is a lot of laziness, refusal to take responsibility, lack of civility, fear (as in angst), impatience, and sloppiness in our own behavior, and our behavior towards each other. I think we sometimes wish it were a "law of nature" that we be that way - because that would provide a convenient excuse for all sorts of bad behavior - and a justification for all sorts of pre-emptive and repressive responses on the part of those in power to prevent or mitigate them.-40hz (May 19, 2014, 04:39 PM)
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a big +1 there :up:
Stoic Joker:
I didn't so much say not to try to solve people problems with technology as I said not to confuse or conflate a technical problem with a people problem. It's a small but important difference. You can always "solve" a people problem with technology through the simple expedient of using technology to eliminate "the people." There's been enough cases of deliberate genocide in the last thirty years to indicate it's becoming a popular option in some places.-40hz (May 19, 2014, 04:39 PM)
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I aware of the distinction, I was just having a bit of fun poking you with a stick. :D
I don't see "animal" instinct or cosmic levels of "evil" when I look at most of what is going on. What I do see is a lot of laziness, refusal to take responsibility, lack of civility, fear (as in angst), impatience, and sloppiness in our own behavior, and our behavior towards each other. I think we sometimes wish it were a "law of nature" that we be that way - because that would provide a convenient excuse for all sorts of bad behavior - and a justification for all sorts of pre-emptive and repressive responses on the part of those in power to prevent or mitigate them.-40hz (May 19, 2014, 04:39 PM)
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I'm not implying it is a copout/excuse for anything. I'm simply pointing out that the societal tendency as of late to sweep it under the carpet is destined to backfire.
So I don't think I'm glossing over bad behaviors or certain people's proclivity to indulge in them.-40hz (May 19, 2014, 04:39 PM)
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Didn't say you were ... But society is.
People do bad things. No argument from me on that point. But what I do disagree with is that any of this is beyond our personal ability to control when it comes to our own behavior. To say "it's human nature" means it can't be changed. And I don't see that. The human brain is like a piece of putty. People change their thinking all the time. And other people often change (or at least try to change it) for them.
...
So no...I don't think we're animals, or monsters, or rabid rabbits that need to be penned in and watched lest we all kill each other. I just think we get lazy, and tired, and impatient, and afraid - and we do counterproductive things to ourselves, and each other, as a result.-40hz (May 19, 2014, 04:39 PM)
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...And that result is a tendency to fall back to our baser instincts.
Here's the thing. You are equating "animal" with "Monster" ... Which has abso-freakin-loutly nothing to do with my usage of 'Animal'. Animals do not kill for sport, humans however do. And that is simply because of our delusion-ally arrogant assertion that we humans are somehow superior to these lessor beings ... So it's somehow ok. In the bad behavior department, humans are by far the stupidest parasitic infestation this planet has ever suffered.
Animals OTOH, have a much better understanding of the usage of a measured response when it comes to the fighting half of the fight of flight reflex. An animal will kill in defense of family, territory, or survival (e.g. food) and there is nothing wrong with that. As will we, except that in the interest of maintaining a thin veneer of civility we - or more specifically or leaders in power - will also concoct any manner of bullshit story to facilitate the necessity of pursuing things even farther for the purpose of more ... Not need...just more. An animal will break off the attack the instant the threat passes. Humans...OTOH...not so much.
Tomos actually nailed where I'm coming from with his assessment of society not scaling well. The larger a crowd of people becomes, the harder they are to keep on the same page. So more and more silly assed rules - like you can't walk your alligator in the town square - get enacted for the purpose of "maintaining order". And that's when the clic's start taking over the pecking order.
See you are trying to equate animal instinct with violence, I on the other hand am not. I'm speaking to the predatory nature that is so prevalent today in how power is badly wielded in all aspects of our sad joke of a civilized society. If you take a mans life in an alley, that's bad. But if you use a 900lb gorilla of a legal tiem to destroy a mans life with some bullshit trumped up patent trolling ... Well... *Shrug* ...That's just how the system works. Yet the predatory intent was the same. We just like to kid ourselves that we're - "Civilized"... - better than the other animals because we didn't leave a literal bloody carcass laying in the street after the fight.
How high are the bodies stacked due to some corporations desire to "protect" their shareholders? If the shareholders found out, would they really care? ...You know...after the cameras were turned off.
In the AA they like to say that the first step is to admit that there is a problem. And we need to do that ... Instead of pretending that the predatory animal nature does not exist in the core of our being.
TaoPhoenix:
"So Ren, if you send me a nice picture of a space alien from DeviantArt, I'll send you a dollar!" *
*Some conditions apply.
;D
-TaoPhoenix (May 18, 2014, 09:31 PM)
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...
Thanks! You can send your dollar to me in bitcoins here:
1LoZLVjjzJp6Vt3Q4AaTkVHuM8i3obhw7Y
;D
Well, maybe we're talking about different dictionary definitions of Trust.
I meant at a much more human level of "do you believe this guy will actually shell out the money?"
-TaoPhoenix (May 18, 2014, 09:31 PM)
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And that's the point. You don't need to trust anyone as you can eliminate trust through escrow and multi-sig sending.
-Renegade (May 18, 2014, 10:21 PM)
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Heh hysterical pic!
But we're still talking about different defs of trust. Even before it gets into escrow, you have to "Trust #2" that it will get into escrow! However, see that Tarot Kickstarter thread, if I say I am too lazy to figure out how to get you your dollar in bitcoin so I won't send it and "Oh look! The Season Finale of Warehouse 13 is on!", ... then you can't "Trust #2" in me no matter how fancy the tech side is.
That's what I was referring to about that contest, it looked like some key info was missing. Maybe I'm blind but I didn't see any proofs that it was all sewn up and ready to go.
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