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Author Topic: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?  (Read 2693 times)

crabby3

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Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« on: May 12, 2014, 07:44:50 AM »
My first computer was an Averatec laptop, running XP and came with 3 recovery disks.

Can I use these on a different brand machine?  Like Dell, Acer or whatever?   :tellme:
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40hz

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 08:28:55 AM »
It depends. Quickest way to find out is to try. General rule of thumb: look at the disk directory. If it looks like a regular Windows CD, it will probably work. If you just see a few setup type executables plus long list of cryptically named files (like DM1134.MM or IMGSET.001...002...003 etc.) it probably won't work.

Older recovery disks from many vendors (like Dell) would usually work on any PC. That's because they were standard Windows disks tricked out with an installer shell and manufacturer specific driver sets, utility programs, and (later) crapware they were being paid to load on a fresh installation.

Newer disks, and most from Sony and HP, can be very brand (and in some cases model) specific. Not hard to do since a query to the BIOS will usually reveal make/model/ serial# info - all of which could be keyed to the supplied (or user created) recovery disk set.

The real tech hassle using another maker's recovery disks is that you'll need to obtain hardware drivers specific to your machine. A minor niggle. But one to be aware of.  And there's also a new issue that may become problematic down the road. HP has started a new policy of restricting free and open access to driver and BIOS updates for their servers. If you don't have a support subscription - no driver downloads for you! It will be interesting to see if other manufacturers follow suit - or if the practice spreads to desk and laptop models.

Note: the license for that OEM copy of Windows that ships with a PC is not transferable and is legally for use only on the machine it originally shipped with. That's why it cost much less than the full retail version Microsoft would be happy to sell you. Not to say an OEM licensed copy of Windows can't be physically installed and validated on another machine. But it is a EULA violation to do do.

Just sayin'  ;)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 08:43:31 AM by 40hz »

crabby3

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 09:29:45 AM »
It depends. Quickest way to find out is to try. General rule of thumb: look at the disk directory. If it looks like a regular Windows CD, it will probably work. If you just see a few setup type executables plus long list of cryptically named files (like DM1134.MM or IMGSET.001...002...003 etc.) it probably won't work.

Older recovery disks from many vendors (like Dell) would usually work on any PC. That's because they were standard Windows disks tricked out with an installer shell and manufacturer specific driver sets, utility programs, and (later) crapware they were being paid to load on a fresh installation.

Newer disks, and most from Sony and HP, can be very brand (and in some cases model) specific. Not hard to do since a query to the BIOS will usually reveal make/model/ serial# info - all of which could be keyed to the supplied (or user created) recovery disk set.

The real tech hassle using another maker's recovery disks is that you'll need to obtain hardware drivers specific to your machine. A minor niggle. But one to be aware of.  And there's also a new issue that may become problematic down the road. HP has started a new policy of restricting free and open access to driver and BIOS updates for their servers. If you don't have a support subscription - no driver downloads for you! It will be interesting to see if other manufacturers follow suit - or if the practice spreads to desk and laptop models.

Note: the license for that OEM copy of Windows that ships with a PC is not transferable and is legally for use only on the machine it originally shipped with. That's why it cost much less than the full retail version Microsoft would be happy to sell you. Not to say an OEM licensed copy of Windows can't be physically installed and validated on another machine. But it is a EULA violation to do do.

Just sayin'  ;)

Thanks for the info 40hz.   :)  You've answered my question and then some.  Just have to find somebody who needs or wants em.
Bought the Averatec in 2005 and they went out of business in 2011 so my chances of locating an interested Averatec user are pretty slim.   ;D
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40hz

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 09:42:08 AM »
I'm guessing they'll probably work with almost anything.

You might want to hold onto them in case you ever need an "emergency copy" of XP. <wink-wink>  :)

tomos

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 10:03:42 AM »
Note: the license for that OEM copy of Windows that ships with a PC is not transferable and is legally for use only on the machine it originally shipped with. That's why it cost much less than the full retail version Microsoft would be happy to sell you. Not to say an OEM licensed copy of Windows can't be physically installed and validated on another machine. But it is a EULA violation to do do.

Just sayin'  ;)
For the record - this is not fully true in Germany:
from an(y) ebay.de reseller of OEM Windows 7 -
Quote
Lizenzbestimmung: Durch das Urteil des Bundesgerichtshofs wurde der Verkauf von OEM-Versionen und DSP-Versionen ohne zugehörige Hardware erlaubt. Daher dürfen Sie diese Lizenz auf jedem xbeliebigem Rechner einsetzen. Dies ist im Bundesgerichtshof Urteil vom 06.07.2000 - I ZR 244/97 auch eindeutig dokumentiert.
-
roughly: the courts ruled that OEM versions may be sold without related hardware.

FWIW, they usually resell Dell OEM's
Tom

Stoic Joker

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 11:46:27 AM »
And there's also a new issue that may become problematic down the road. HP has started a new policy of restricting free and open access to driver and BIOS updates for their servers. If you don't have a support subscription - no driver downloads for you! It will be interesting to see if other manufacturers follow suit - or if the practice spreads to desk and laptop models.

 :huh: ...Are you talking about this error popping up on a driver search??
HP DL Error.jpg

I've been running across it for a year or so, but generally found it to be an erroneous error that basically implied either the search was bad, or the site was flaking out (again..). Given that HP's site is always flaking out somewhere to some degree...the latter was the most popular assumption.

HP is also notoriously touchy about which number you use to lookup a device. If I try typing in ProLiant DL380, I get a bunch of scattered older generation stuff that is useless. If I try to be more specific and type ProLiant DL380 G8, I get one useless result for a riser card. However if I type in the (much preferred...) HP part number 670853-S01 what I'm after then magically appears with no restrictions. But HP has always been a bit funny that way.

Or did you read something else that said they were instating a policy shift? Dumping driver download onto the support staff sounds like a great way to inspire a revolt to me.

I'm just curious, because I've heard nothing about this ... And you'd think that kind of think would get mentioned in the news letter...Ya know?

40hz

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 12:13:32 PM »
did you read something else that said they were instating a policy shift? Dumping driver download onto the support staff sounds like a great way to inspire a revolt to me.

I'm just curious, because I've heard nothing about this ... And you'd think that kind of think would get mentioned in the news letter...Ya know?


Per PC World:

Quote
HP starts charging for server firmware updates

PC owners probably don’t give firmware updates much thought and rarely, if ever, seek them out directly. Enthusiasts and small businesses running low-end servers, on the other hand, have a keener interest in firmware since sometimes skipping an update can be fatal for their investment.

But getting those firmware updates for Hewlett-Packard’s servers are about to get a little more difficult. HP says that beginning next Wednesday, February 19, it will effectively start charging for access to firmware updates through the company’s support center. Only customers with an active warranty, an HP Care Pack subscription, or support agreement will be able to download the updates directly from HP.

Previously, HP firmware updates were freely available.

“This decision reinforces our goal to provide access to the latest HP firmware, which is valuable intellectual property, for our customers who have chosen to maximize and protect their IT investments,” HP’s Mary McCoy vice president for technology services said in a blog post.

Here's McCoy's blog post mentioned in the above article.

And here's the official FAQ.

Apparently "safety & security" related patches will still be made freely available. At least for the time being according to the FAQ. But everything else (performance/enhanced features/etc.) is pay to play.

The official response from HP is:

“These changes will provide our customers with a consistent experience for downloading ProLiant firmware and SPP based on product level entitlement.”

Interesting that "based on  product level entitlement" part. Guess HP figured they were leaving money on the table and decided to protect their authorized support partner channel members with that one. Looks like they feel too many non-authorized (and more cost effective) support orgs are poaching on their "rightful" turf.

It's been all over the web AFAICT:

Spoiler
Quote
   HP Restricting Access to Server Firmware Updates | LINDSAY HILL

    Feb 9, 2014 ... HP Restricting Access to Server Firmware Updates ... So now when we go to download updates we are going to have to ensure that those ...

    www.lkhill.com/hp-restricting-access-to-server-firmware-updates/ - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP clampdown on 'unauthorised' server fixing to start in January ...

    Dec 23, 2013 ... Exclusive Hewlett-Packard will start restricting who is allowed to fix its ... and Service Pack for ProLiant (SPP) access for ProLiant Servers that will protect ... will see HP "create a consistent customer experience for downloading ...

    www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/23/hewlett_packard_support_clampdown/ - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP starts charging for server firmware updates | PCWorld

    Feb 10, 2014 ... Hewlett-Packard says its firware updates for servers are valuable ... or support agreement will be able to download the updates directly from HP. ... It's not clear if HP will restrict access to critical firmware updates that are ...

    www.pcworld.com/ article/ 2095434/ hp-starts-charging-for-server-firmware-updates.html - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP Proliant Servers - Solutions to Common Download Problems

    To access download files availabel on the HP Business Support Center web site, you .... See "What do I do if my company firewall restricts access to ftp" below.

    h20564.www2.hp.com/ portal/ site/ hpsc/ template.PUBLIC_SP4TS_REDIRECTOR/ bizsupport/ TechSupport/ Document.jsp?objectID=c01844814 - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP to begin charging for firmware updates and service packs - ZDNet

    Feb 8, 2014 ... Beginning this month, HP is restricting access to firmware updates and .... But downloads for Cisco servers (the Cisco Unified Computing ...

    www.zdnet.com/ hp-to-begin-charging-for-firmware-updates-and-service-packs-for-serve rs-7000026110/ - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP to restrict access to ProLiant service packs and firmware updates ...

    Feb 10, 2014 ... HP server customers will need an active warranty, HP Care Pack or ... is required to access the latest firmware updates and SPP downloads.

    www.v3.co.uk/ v3-uk/ news/ 2327963/ hp-to-restrict-access-to-proliant-service-packs-and-firmware-updates - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP Adds Restrictions to Server Patching - Tom's IT Pro

    Dec 26, 2013 ... HP plans to stamp out the under-cutting support services allowing only ... Service Pack for ProLiant (SPP) access for ProLiant Servers that will protect ... will see HP "create a consistent customer experience for downloading ...

    www.tomsitpro.com/ articles/ hp-service-updates-proliant-servers, 1-1508.html - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    hardware - HP plan to restrict access to ProLiant server firmware ...

    Essentially, you must have active warranty and support on your servers in order to access firmware downloads (and presumably, the HP Service Pack for ...

    www.serverfault.com/ questions/ 571933/ hp-plan-to-restrict-access-to-proliant-server-firmware-consequences - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    HP Restricts ProLiant Firmware Updates to Warranty Customers ...

    Feb 12, 2014 ... HP is restricting access to firmware and service pack upgrades for its ... HP's Mary McCoy says ProLiant server BIOS and other firmware updates are ... easily accessible way for our customers to download firmware updates.

    www.thevarguy.com/ computer-technology-hardware-solutions-and-news/ 021214/ hp-restricts-proliant-firmware-updates-warranty-cust - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight
    iTWire - Hewlett-Packard to restrict ProLiant firmware and driver ...

    Feb 5, 2014 ... If your business is running HP ProLiant servers you'll know that HP makes ... To use these drivers you could either download stand-alone drivers or, ... Select server firmware and SPP on these products will only be accessed ...

    www.itwire.com/ opinion-and-analysis/ the-wired-cio/ 63021-hewlett-packard-to-restrict-proliant-firmware-and-driver-update s - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight


 8)

Addendum: If I go to the support download page based on the p/n you gave, I see "Entitlement Required" for Smart Update, the Service Pack (SPP), the Maintenance Bundle for SPP, and BIOS. Most seem to still be capable of being downloaded however. (AFAIK the Smart-stuff always required a subscription, so that's no surprise.)

They do, however, have this language on some of the download pages:

Quote
These downloads are available for customers according to the terms in the HP Software License Agreement. Certain software may require a valid warranty, current support contract with HP, or a license fee.

I wonder if maybe they've backed off on some of this in practice - even though not officially?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 02:06:06 PM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 01:48:16 PM »
Well, shit. I never generally pay much attention to news about HP, as most of it's marketing crap and I figure if it's really that important they'll tell us. But this would have been handy to know back before the deadline so a few things could have been saved while still accessible. :-\

...Then again I could have just missed it. I do have a tendency to reflexively gloss past certain - draconian corporate - terms that conflict with my definition of fair use... That and I make it a policy not to trust anyone that uses terms like synergistic fiscal lubrication.

But thus is the appeal of the dark side, where things really do just work...because that's the way they were made - or remade as the case may by.

40hz

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 01:51:48 PM »
Note: the license for that OEM copy of Windows that ships with a PC is not transferable and is legally for use only on the machine it originally shipped with. That's why it cost much less than the full retail version Microsoft would be happy to sell you. Not to say an OEM licensed copy of Windows can't be physically installed and validated on another machine. But it is a EULA violation to do do.

Just sayin'  ;)
For the record - this is not fully true in Germany:
from an(y) ebay.de reseller of OEM Windows 7 -
Quote
Lizenzbestimmung: Durch das Urteil des Bundesgerichtshofs wurde der Verkauf von OEM-Versionen und DSP-Versionen ohne zugehörige Hardware erlaubt. Daher dürfen Sie diese Lizenz auf jedem xbeliebigem Rechner einsetzen. Dies ist im Bundesgerichtshof Urteil vom 06.07.2000 - I ZR 244/97 auch eindeutig dokumentiert.
-
roughly: the courts ruled that OEM versions may be sold without related hardware.

FWIW, they usually resell Dell OEM's


Most interesting! More on that here.

Glad to see the EU courts aren't falling for the arguments used in the US to abrogate a buyer's 'first sale' rights.

Thx for sharing that. :Thmbsup:

40hz

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 01:59:49 PM »
But this would have been handy to know back before the deadline so a few things could have been saved while still accessible. :-\

...Then again I could have just missed it.

I doubt it. They seemed to be trying to keep it off the radar as much as possible without being too obvious about it. I do read most of the HP propaganda and I don't recall seeing it talked up in any of the normal pubic announcements. They probably only really gave it significant mention in the partner channel communiques. (And I don't get those any more.)

I do have a tendency to reflexively gloss past certain - draconian corporate - terms that conflict with my definition of fair use...

Yup. And I'm sure they're hoping most people will continue to do just that... :-\

Because the devil is in the details. And the rabbit punches and "liver jabs" are often found in the fine print. Usually somewhere halfway down on page 88 of 173. :tellme:

tomos

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 03:06:49 PM »
Note: the license for that OEM copy of Windows that ships with a PC is not transferable and is legally for use only on the machine it originally shipped with. That's why it cost much less than the full retail version Microsoft would be happy to sell you. Not to say an OEM licensed copy of Windows can't be physically installed and validated on another machine. But it is a EULA violation to do do.
For the record - this is not fully true in Germany:
from an(y) ebay.de reseller of OEM Windows 7 -
Quote
Lizenzbestimmung: Durch das Urteil des Bundesgerichtshofs wurde der Verkauf von OEM-Versionen und DSP-Versionen ohne zugehörige Hardware erlaubt. Daher dürfen Sie diese Lizenz auf jedem xbeliebigem Rechner einsetzen. Dies ist im Bundesgerichtshof Urteil vom 06.07.2000 - I ZR 244/97 auch eindeutig dokumentiert.
-
roughly: the courts ruled that OEM versions may be sold without related hardware.

Most interesting! More on that here.

Glad to see the EU courts aren't falling for the arguments used in the US to abrogate a buyer's 'first sale' rights.

Not sure if that EU ruling has had a direct influence on Windows OEM resale** (anyone?) - the ruling I quoted was from the Federal German Supreme Court. I see Windows 7 OEM's for sale on UK Ebay and they oddly quote the ebay and MS policy/license limitations:

Quote
Please Ensure you read the below Policy and Legislation very carefully so you fully understand everything involved in the sale of this item.
If you have ANY questions whatsoever, then please message us through ebay and we will be happy to get back to you within 1 business day, or the next available business day where weekends/holidays are effective.
Ebay Policy States: OEM, bundled, or recovery software may be listed only if it is included along with the original hardware, such as the motherboard, hard drive, or computer sold with the OEM software.
Microsoft Policy States: "Large brand-name computer manufacturers, such as Dell and Compaq, often include OEM software on non-holographic “recovery” or “reinstallation” discs that show the manufacturer’s brand name. These software packages are typically marked with a phrase that states, for instance, “For Distribution with a new Dell PC only.” Recovery or reinstallation software is licensed only for distribution with new computers and can be redistributed only with the computer for which it was initially distributed. Distributing such software with individual PC hardware components (e.g. hard drive; RAM) does not comply with Microsoft’s OEM distribution requirements." In compliance with the above, we confirm that you will receive an original Microsoft Disc, and that the decommissioned PC is also included in this sale, however the Dell PC models vary and all are damaged beyond economic repair. Due to the size, weight and low value, PC's are only available by collection only. This item is also intended for use by OEM (original equipment manufacturers) and system builders. It is not intended for consumer use.

sounds like they're saying you're breaking the law if you buy this (nudge nudge wink wink :p)
** Presumably that EU ruling does give them the security to resell openly in the EU without fear of hassle or conviction.
Tom

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Re: Are Recovery Disks Brand Specific?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »
They probably only really gave it significant mention in the partner channel communiques. (And I don't get those any more.)

But I do ... And have no recollection of its mention. However  there is a good bit of pompoms oriented signal to noise ratio in there too.


I do have a tendency to reflexively gloss past certain - draconian corporate - terms that conflict with my definition of fair use...

Yup. And I'm sure they're hoping most people will continue to do just that... :-\

Because the devil is in the details. And the rabbit punches and "liver jabs" are often found in the fine print. Usually somewhere halfway down on page 88 of 173. :tellme:

Primary detail IMO is how practical is it to actually have an attorney available to read, decipher, and explain the nonsense contained in the average EULA. Nobody in the SOHO/SMB space has the time or money for that. And I don't have a law degree, so I'm not about to try understanding the inane level of doublespeak contained therein.

- The party of the first participle shall for all eternity henceforth and forthwith be subject to all covenants not to be confined only to the herein but also to include that which is felt to be subject to any and all implied whims of the holding issuer -

Not to mention the chronically reserved right to change the content at any future point to retroactively apply to the signature acceptance of button clicking back when. So I prefer to reserve the right to error on the side of the client regarding what is to be considered fair and reasonable usage.

My 25 words or less rule you see, is strictly enforced. ;)