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Last post Author Topic: Video Editors  (Read 15497 times)

4wd

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2014, 04:30:19 AM »
On the old XP box I do have firewire but not on this 8.1 machine.

The XP machine should have no problem, you'd need about 20GB per 90 minutes.  As long as it's not doing something else CPU or HDD intensive you should be fine.

I use to do all my DV editing on an old 1600+ Athlon XP machine.

Happy Expat

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2014, 07:23:38 AM »
Hi Vurbal:
I've installed and tried VirtualVCR on the XP box - seems fairly frustration free.
I have a couple of observations:-
Video format properties did indeed default to the NTSC version you intimated but I noticed your own example was showing PAL and being in Europe I originally thought I would need to set PAL as well. I did however leave it at the default NTSC and it seemed to work fine - confused!
When I tried to adjust the audio volume input level it refused any changes from the default -99db, although after I eventually reset the audio channels to mono I did seem to get the correct amount of audio from both speakers. Not an issue, just wondered why it wouldn't let me change it!
I also observed that the Default Video Frame setting was 320x240 as you can see from the image below

But, the preview monitor showed 640x480 which I believe is probably the source definition. Again, playback through VLC and just about everything else I've tried seems to be the correct ratio so it's probably not a problem - just more confusion. Yeah, you're right ...I seem to be easily confused.

I've attached below, the statistics produced by both VVCR and MediaInfo. If you could give them a quick look and verify they're what's to be expected it would be greatly appreciated.
hidden text
Capture Stats
Frames Captured: 1296
Frames Dropped1: 6
Frames Dropped2: 0
Time : 00:00:52
Time Left: 01:32:49
Free Space: 85,197,041,664
Video Bytes: 795,648,000
Audio Bytes: 4,586,400
Total Bytes: 800,234,400
Video Bytes Sec: 15,209,374
Audio Bytes Sec: 87,672
Total Bytes Sec: 15,297,046
Video Compression: 1.001
Video Rate: 25.195656
Audio Rate: 44108.632918
AV Diff: 0.007630
AV Adjust: 0.000000
AV Actual: 0.000000

hidden text
General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Colin\Desktop\VVCRCapture\capture (2014-03-09 at 12-11-55).avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 768 MiB
Duration                                 : 52s 0ms
Overall bit rate                         : 124 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : YUY2
Codec ID/Info                            : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration                                 : 43s 210ms
Bit rate                                 : 147 Mbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 16.000
Stream size                              : 759 MiB (99%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 52s 0ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 8.75 MiB (1%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 208 ms (6.23 video frames)



Now I've got the potential to produce some truly massive unadulterated files, presumably all I need to do is any final editing and then save them out in an acceptable compressed format.

I did observe that both VLC Media Player and the editing monitor with Showbiz seemed to be reproducing as though it were a slow stream over the internet. Could that be because the x86 processor was struggling with the shear volume of data throughput or is it indicative of other issues. I've yet to try the same files and functions on this machine as I rather wanted to get my observations organised first. Will be assessing that as soon as I post this and will update as appropriate.
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Happy Expat

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2014, 07:40:40 AM »
Now tried one of the files with VLC on the faster machine and audio is about 7 seconds out of sync, although the video doesn't now seem to be a slow internet stream.
If you're thinking of trying something make sure you do it at least twice - then you're almost an expert

4wd

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2014, 05:20:45 PM »
Hi Vurbal:

That was me actually, I see I did manage to muddy the waters :)

Quote
Video format properties did indeed default to the NTSC version you intimated but I noticed your own example was showing PAL and being in Europe I originally thought I would need to set PAL as well.

I thought you were in the USA at the time, that's why I mentioned the NTSC settings.  Now I know you're in Europe your settings should have been the same as mine except for the Format which might be different from the PAL-B we had in Australia.

Quote
I did however leave it at the default NTSC and it seemed to work fine - confused!

It's the wrong frame rate.  As you can see from your two texts outputs above, VirtualVCR is trying to capture at close to 25fps, (PAL), because that's what the EzyCAP is reporting the source is, whereas MediaInfo is reporting 29.97fps, (NTSC), because that's what you've told it to capture at.

This will cause A/V sync problems as you found.

Quote
When I tried to adjust the audio volume input level it refused any changes from the default -99db, although after I eventually reset the audio channels to mono I did seem to get the correct amount of audio from both speakers. Not an issue, just wondered why it wouldn't let me change it!

It's dependent on the capture device because the EzyCAP performs the digital conversion in the device it probably automatically adjusts for audio gain - so it's probably not necessary to adjust volume for it.

Quote
I also observed that the Default Video Frame setting was 320x240 as you can see from the image below

The Use Custom Setting isn't checked so it's ignored - which is why I didn't mention it ;)

It will default to the resolution of the capture device and this is where we come to with this:

Quote
But, the preview monitor showed 640x480 which I believe is probably the source definition.

640x480 is not the resolution of the video source, it's 720x576 - standard PAL.

This is why I don't use the EzyCAP because it's default resolution isn't a television one - it's 640x480, which is standard VGA resolution.

I used it once - the only resolution I could get it to capture at was 640x480, which is definitely not the normal PAL resolution of 720x576.  At that point the EzyCAP was consigned to the cupboard never to see the light of day again.

I didn't care if it was scaling the input signal to produce a nice square pixel output, I wanted the full video frame to work with - which is why I switched to an internal TV card for capture.

Quote
I've attached below, the statistics produced by both VVCR and MediaInfo. If you could give them a quick look and verify they're what's to be expected it would be greatly appreciated.

As I mentioned above, you're capturing at the wrong frame rate, you need to set it for the same as I show in my post.

If that doesn't work then under Settings->Video, check the Use Custom Settings and set them to: 720x576 (may or may not be honoured); Colour Format YUY2; Frame Rate 25.00.

If VVCR complains because of the resolution then you might have to change it to 640x480.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 06:11:57 PM by 4wd »

Happy Expat

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2014, 02:32:55 AM »
My apologies to both of you. I hadn't noticed the change of roles and thought I was still talking to Vurbal about the current capture facilities and 4wd about the scope for the Sony HandyCam :-[.
BTW Vurbal, I have noticed your aversion to, Sony ---- Their appalling treatment of GEOHOT and the independent developer community in general?
If you're thinking of trying something make sure you do it at least twice - then you're almost an expert

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2014, 07:16:58 AM »
Just tried VirtualVCR. Seem to be having some problems with the interface as well as Audio Sync. I also experimented by trying to capture direct to a USB stick but that results in far too many dropped frames! Will probably try capturing to a real USB hard disk to see if that's fast enough - unless either of you can already advise that would be a complete waste of time.
When changing VVCR's settings, it doesn't always seem to save them to the "default" settings, and when they are forced out to a profile, they don't all seem to save as I defined them.
It seems that each tab must be saved as soon as it is modified, otherwise any subsequent changes to other tabs causes those not yet saved to revert to their original state. Weird, confusing and frustrating, especially when you discover that you've just spent ten minutes running as fast as you can - and you're back where you started.
Audio only syncs when I can force the preview monitor into 720x576 but again, sometimes it seems I only thought I'd changed the resolution, so the audio is still not synced. (It won't allow that resolution for PAL_B but it will for PAL_G and NTSC so I have to select and save one or the other and then change it to PAL_B, where the resolution should be 640x480 but "sticks" on the other formats' 720x576. Does that description of the problem make any sense or is my definition just too confusing?
Even when I actually get an audio synced file, the image seems to be composed of visible lines and loads of jaggies on any curved or moving edges - just like an old 405 line TV - yes, I am that old!
I suspect I still need some tweeking of the settings, but it's difficult to be sure precisely what I have been able to change, when the parameters don't seem to be stable between experimental captures. I have completely removed and re-installed VVCR as well, in case I had a suspect installation but all the issues mentioned above remain.
For the record, here are the MediaInfo stats for a file saved direct to the USB stick and the virtually identical clip saved directly to the hard drive. Not sure if these will help resolve the issue of audio syncing vs resolution but they certainly do indicate how much gets lost trying to save to a USB stick.
hidden text
General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Colin\Videos\VVCRfiles\capture (2014-03-10 at 08-59-03).avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 606 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 7s
Overall bit rate                         : 75.9 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : YUY2
Codec ID/Info                            : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration                                 : 1mn 5s
Bit rate                                 : 75.7 Mbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 5:4
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 7.300
Stream size                              : 594 MiB (98%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 1mn 7s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 11.3 MiB (2%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 246 ms (6.14 video frames)



hidden text
General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Colin\Videos\VVCRfiles\capture (2014-03-10 at 09-01-25).avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile                           : OpenDML
File size                                : 1.20 GiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 2s
Overall bit rate                         : 167 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : YUY2
Codec ID/Info                            : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration                                 : 1mn 1s
Bit rate                                 : 166 Mbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 5:4
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 16.000
Stream size                              : 1.19 GiB (99%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 1mn 2s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 10.4 MiB (1%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 249 ms (6.23 video frames)





If you're thinking of trying something make sure you do it at least twice - then you're almost an expert

Happy Expat

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2014, 08:23:55 AM »
Well chaps, you're gonna find this hard to believe.
It seems one of the packages that came bundled with this computer - Power Director 10 by Cyberlink - has an automatic function for precisely what I need.
All I had to do was right click the source file within PD10 and one of the features in the context sensitive menu is "Scene Detection".
It simply scans the entire file, tags all the probable scene changes and allows you to further edit, retain or delete the clips.
That simple.
If you're thinking of trying something make sure you do it at least twice - then you're almost an expert

Vurbal

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2014, 09:59:22 AM »
My apologies to both of you. I hadn't noticed the change of roles and thought I was still talking to Vurbal about the current capture facilities and 4wd about the scope for the Sony HandyCam :-[.

It's an understandable mistake since 4wd is giving you the same technical advice I would have if I hadn't forgotten some of the things he has mentioned.

Quote
BTW Vurbal, I have noticed your aversion to, Sony ---- Their appalling treatment of GEOHOT and the independent developer community in general?

That's part of it, or perhaps I should say it's a symptom. I find their treatment of consumers, going back to Sony Music's audio CD rootkit, extremely offensive. Having said that, the best solution for your capture needs is likely to involve Sony hardware, and conveniently it would almost certainly be used so even I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

Rather than focusing on what you've done already it may be more helpful to take a fresh look on your options now that I'm taking something of a fresh look at things. In part that's because I think it may be helpful to arm you with a little more information about your source format, but also because 4wd's posts have jarred some things loose in recesses of my memory.

Let's start with your Hi8 tapes. I initially thought it would be more useful to skip this part but that was probably a mistake. Feel free to ignore this if you're already familiar with the technical specs.

Hi8 is really just a prosumer version of Sony's high end (analog) tape format called Betacam. Actually that's true of every Sony analog tape format. Video8 is more or less the same as Betamax and quality-wise roughly equivalent to VHS. Hi8 is roughly equivalent to S-VHS (Super VHS) which is why (here in the US) it became the defacto standard for local news reporting. Eventually higher end Hi8 equipment also added support for stereo digital audio, similar to audio CDs but with slightly lower quality. This may have been primarily in Hi8 studio decks rather than the actual camcorders. To be honest I'm not exactly clear on that point.

Digital8 is Sony's implementation of miniDV, just using a different tape format to enable backwards compatibility with Hi8 media. As 4wd mentioned, the simplest way to capture Hi8 tapes is using the built-in conversion feature on a Digital8 camcorder. You do have to be a little careful since I seem to recall not every Digital8 camera included support for reading Hi8. I'm guessing this is limited to first generation units but that really is just a guess.

Once the file is encoded and transferred via firewire you will have either a Type 1 or Type 2 DV file. This is entirely dependent on the camcorder since all you're doing is copying the original file stream and packaging it as an AVI file. There's a lot more you will want to know about working with DV if you get to that point but there's no point in covering it unless/until you get to that point.

Assuming that's not an option, my first recommendation for analog capture would actually be an external Canopus DV converter. The video quality would be nearly as good and the capture process nearly as simple. Unfortunately it's likely to cost as much as a used Digital8 camera. Back in the day the ADVC-300 was their best consumer converter but I know they stopped making them some years back. After that was the ADVC-100 which was replaced at some point by the ADVC-110. Canopus, which is now Grass Valley, stopped making consumer DV converters entirely at some point IIRC.

If you can find a used DVD recorder that has analog inputs rather than being limited to capturing from a built-in VHS deck that would probably be the next best option for quality and simplicity at a reasonable price. You would also want to make sure it offered S-Video input and not just Composite because otherwise you would lose most of the quality advantages of Hi8.

The discussion about EzyCap's apparent resolution limit reminded me of some analysis I read a few years back about USB capture devices in general. Now that you guys mention it I believe that's standard, if not universal, for USB capture. As you've noticed already you're getting dropped frames even at that resolution. That's the USB transfer limitation I was talking about. If you could directly access the Phillips video chip's output - and you probably can't - you would get full D1 (720x576) resolution but almost certainly with a significantly higher frame drop rate.

Back when I first got into analog capture I was lucky enough to have a Sony multimedia PC (yeah I see the irony) which came with one of their proprietary capture cards. Their cards actually used a MPEG-2 hardware encoder developed for Japanese market DVRs. You could probably find one of the cards for sale but I've never found solid evidence they will work on a non-Sony PC. Unless somebody has repackaged it themselves, the driver is installed as part of the GigaPocket software which came with it. In fact back when I was using mine there wasn't any other capture software which even recognized it. That was quite a few years ago so things may have changed.
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I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

Vurbal

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2014, 10:03:12 AM »
Well chaps, you're gonna find this hard to believe.
It seems one of the packages that came bundled with this computer - Power Director 10 by Cyberlink - has an automatic function for precisely what I need.
All I had to do was right click the source file within PD10 and one of the features in the context sensitive menu is "Scene Detection".
It simply scans the entire file, tags all the probable scene changes and allows you to further edit, retain or delete the clips.
That simple.


Not surprising at all - knowing the right terminology is half the battle. Power Director started out as primarily a DVD authoring suite so that makes sense. The primary use for scene detection is actually for improving encoding - like when you're converting prior to disc authoring.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

Happy Expat

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2014, 12:09:46 PM »
Well, would you believe it, I've just reclaimed an old DVD recorder that I was about to put into the local Waste Collector's Bin.
Digital audio out via optical and coaxial
Analogue audio out via stero RCA
Video out via RCA and s-video
Scart in & out
AV3 in via RCA and s-video
I also cut the power lead off but that's just a five minute job to reinstall :-)
Am I likely to get somewhere with that little lot?
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2014, 12:12:37 PM »
Actually, I think I've got another one in the attic with a similar spec.
Unfortunately, something went wrong on the recording side so disks were rarely readable once recording sessions were closed.
I intended to turn the lasers into light-pens but never got around to it.
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2014, 12:23:21 PM »
Your best bet is probably to focus on finding a more general purpose editor that has such a feature (most of them do) and figuring out whether it can be tuned to do what you want.

The general feature you're looking for is typically called scene detection........

I should have paid more attention to your first post on the topic and thoroughly investigated what I already had.
But I've now got the bug, so I can't wait to play with pipelining the Camcorder through the DVD and seeing what happens.
Clearly, more time on my hands than the sense to do something leisurely with it.
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Vurbal

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2014, 01:02:12 PM »
Hopefully your recorder is of the newer and far superior DVD+VR type rather than the older and nearly useless DVD-VR. It almost certainly is the newer variety unless it requires DVD-RAM media which IIRC is a requirement for DVD-VR.

Assuming it is the +VR variety I believe Power Producer can work with them. If for some reason they aren't readable from a regular DVD player you may still be able to extract the video in Power Producer for editing or just to save as standard MPEG PS (MPEG Program Stream) files.

Also, if the recorder has an option to record in either DVD+VR or standard DVD-Video format you should choose the latter to make your life easier.
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2014, 05:23:37 PM »
Digressing a bit:

You do have to be a little careful since I seem to recall not every Digital8 camera included support for reading Hi8. I'm guessing this is limited to first generation units but that really is just a guess.

It's why I mentioned model dependent but the situation was worse in Europe because of Government greed.

A lot of camcorder models were crippled deliberately by the manufacturers because of EU tax laws.

Briefly:
  • If a camcorder recorded video through the lens, (ie. normal operation), it was classed as a camera recorder and the manufacturer was taxed as such.
  • If the camcorder could also record through its inputs, (firewire, USB, A/V), it was also classed as a video recorder, (ie. the equivalent of a VCR), and the tax for that was also added to the camcorder tax, (ie. double taxation).

So the manufacturers in order to avoid paying the import duty for a VCR on camcorders, removed that functionality from a lot of models.

I have a nEUtered Sony DCR TRV-10e that, (as opposed to the Australian version), did not record via Firewire and the complete analog digitiser circuitry is not installed.  However, input via Firewire could be enabled by the interfacing of the LANC port with a computer serial port and a little hex editing :)

Quote
Assuming that's not an option, my first recommendation for analog capture would actually be an external Canopus DV converter.

Completely forgot about them, I was hoping to get one when I was doing all my video transfers but could never scrape up the money or they weren't around when I did have the money :/

My next choice after that was going to be a TV card with a hardware encoder which are still available.

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2014, 07:01:18 PM »
Digressing a bit:

You do have to be a little careful since I seem to recall not every Digital8 camera included support for reading Hi8. I'm guessing this is limited to first generation units but that really is just a guess.

It's why I mentioned model dependent but the situation was worse in Europe because of Government greed.

A lot of camcorder models were crippled deliberately by the manufacturers because of EU tax laws.

Briefly:
  • If a camcorder recorded video through the lens, (ie. normal operation), it was classed as a camera recorder and the manufacturer was taxed as such.
  • If the camcorder could also record through its inputs, (firewire, USB, A/V), it was also classed as a video recorder, (ie. the equivalent of a VCR), and the tax for that was also added to the camcorder tax, (ie. double taxation).

So the manufacturers in order to avoid paying the import duty for a VCR on camcorders, removed that functionality from a lot of models.

I have a nEUtered Sony DCR TRV-10e that, (as opposed to the Australian version), did not record via Firewire and the complete analog digitiser circuitry is not installed.  However, input via Firewire could be enabled by the interfacing of the LANC port with a computer serial port and a little hex editing :)

Yet another tidbit I lost in the recesses of my memory. Now that you mention it I seem to remember reading complaints about that silliness. OTOH my big complaint with my Canon miniDV camcorder was the lack of S-Video in (even though it had S-Video out) which I considered a significant flaw.

Quote
Quote
Assuming that's not an option, my first recommendation for analog capture would actually be an external Canopus DV converter.

Completely forgot about them, I was hoping to get one when I was doing all my video transfers but could never scrape up the money or they weren't around when I did have the money :/

I really wanted an ADVC-300 for the longest time. It was really more of a prosumer unit thanks to the reportedly excellent TBC (time based correction) circuitry. I believe that was what made it so much more expensive than the ADVC-100.

Quote
My next choice after that was going to be a TV card with a hardware encoder which are still available.

I don't think I've ever seen any particularly positive comments about any consumer hardware encoder cards but that includes the Sony card I had and it really was excellent. And unlike my camera it did have S-Video in.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
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I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2014, 12:23:30 AM »
Hopefully your recorder is of the newer and far superior DVD+VR type rather than the older and nearly useless DVD-VR. It almost certainly is the newer variety unless it requires DVD-RAM media which IIRC is a requirement for DVD-VR.
No such luck RAM, -RW & -R............Saves having to put the cable back on
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2014, 12:33:19 AM »
That EU silliness isn't confined to recorders, any recordable material - Tapes, DVDs CDs USB sticks and after-market HDDs all carry a duty. The motivation being - if you can record you will undoubtedly record copyright material, so they collect the reproduction rights up-front and distribute to the various copyright protection agencies. They're talking about slapping the duties on smart-phones too! That's why it's not illegal to access streamed copyright material here - we've already paid the fees!
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2014, 01:06:39 AM »
I think it's time to go back a little.

Originally;-

I captured the stream with EZCAP and Showbiz written to MPEG2.
I then used Audacity to capture the audio and Power Sound Editor to twin the single STEREO track into two MONO tracks.
I then used POWER Director 10 to clip out the original audio and insert the twin track MONO - simply to balance the sound distribution. Saved as MPEG4.
I now propose to use PD10 to cut it into scenes and remove the dross.

Is the resultant file likely to have suffered significant loss in the process?

Should I now see if PD10 can actually capture the primary stream from the EZCAP (or an appropriate DVD recorder) and hopefully (remembering that ShowBiz slugged the AAC CODEC), correctly handle the MONO audio?

In this manner I can probably undertake "one" project to capture, correct the audio if required, cut the dross and save the final file. Only one file from capture to final cut - hopefully with minimal potential for conversion losses.

I have to say that the output from the EZCAP, even after all my "editing", appears to match that from the CAMCORDER when the source tapes are simply played back through a compatible TV, so I don't think I need to worry too much about superior transfer capabilities as I only have what I've already got as a source tape.

Qualifier - Serious Amateur Status, with the divine right to spout bulls**t and sufficient time available to simply re-capture from the original tapes, and follow the experts' advice :)
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2014, 02:30:23 AM »
I captured the stream with EZCAP and Showbiz written to MPEG2.
I then used Audacity to capture the audio and Power Sound Editor to twin the single STEREO track into two MONO tracks.
I then used POWER Director 10 to clip out the original audio and insert the twin track MONO - simply to balance the sound distribution. Saved as MPEG4.
I now propose to use PD10 to cut it into scenes and remove the dross.

Is the resultant file likely to have suffered significant loss in the process?

Rather than export the file as MPEG4 from PD10 and then working on that file, I would have done the scene cuts in PD10 at the same time as the sound work - this way it's only recoded once.

I assuming that PD10 doesn't re-encode just needed parts - it may, it may not but why take the chance?

You should be able to save the project so that you can come back to it later, saves unnecessary encodes.

Quote
Should I now see if PD10 can actually capture the primary stream from the EZCAP (or an appropriate DVD recorder) and hopefully (remembering that ShowBiz slugged the AAC CODEC), correctly handle the MONO audio?

Yes, if you can reduce the number of encoding steps to one all the better.

Quote
Qualifier - Serious Amateur Status, with the divine right to spout bulls**t and sufficient time available to simply re-capture from the original tapes, and follow the experts' advice :)

As long as I'm allowed the same, spout BS that is :)

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2014, 03:50:59 AM »


Quote
As long as I'm allowed the same, spout BS that is :)

If you feel the need - be my guest ;)
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2014, 04:04:12 AM »
I guess I'm now going back to the cellar to re-encode all the tapes to files at maximum possible resolution and transfer them to a pluggable Drive without the 4GiB file size limit and then bring them back to this machine and spend some happy retirement time creating something Cecil B.Demille would chunder upon ;D.
Another quick question:
The EZCAP device and/or ShowBiz permit three levels of MPEG2 "quality" if I try all three variants, how can I tell if the higher resolutions are simply extrapolated?
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2014, 06:33:40 AM »
I'm not sure that you'll be able to capture from the EzyCAP to a USB HDD, (I'm talking USB2 of a few years old), without a lot of dropouts due to the way the USB ports are controlled, (polling by the host).

One way to find out I guess.

By MPEG2 quality I'm pretty sure they mean bitrate - the higher the bitrate, the better the quality, (in theory), up to ~9.8MB/s for the video stream.  The three settings might be something like 3500, 6000, and 8000kbps.

If you run MediaInfo on a short sample of each quality it should tell you.

Here's an online bitrate calculator that'll tell you the minimum transfer rate that your HDD will need to maintain to ensure it's not the cause of frame drops, stuttering, etc.

Video Bitrate Calculator

If you click the link for DVD (PAL) on the right, you'll see that you need to maintain a minimum rate of ~15.55MB/s to the HDD - I'm guessing that's at the rate of a normal movie release DVD but you'll probably need to be somewhere close to that.

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2014, 07:33:21 AM »
Checking the software again, I can see that I can't control the rate at which the stream is either captured or written to disk. It's the edited save compression post-capture that I can define and, as I won't be using ShowBiz for any of the post processing - that's purely academic.
Once I know what my source quality is, I can control the format and compression through Power Director.
When I experimented with capture straight to a USB stick earlier, the dropout rate was awful, so I imagine the throughput to a pluggable hard drive will be just as dire. Only got USB2 on the XP but obviously, I can simply capture to the XP's HDD and then transfer to the pluggable 1TB drive. When I move it to the 8.1 machine, hopefully the OS error correction protocols should ensure a smooth transfer and I can take advantage of the USB3's superior throughput. With 1.6TB free on this box, I think I may just be able to cope.
One of the joys of transferring on the XP in the cellar is that I can set a timer and then come back up here and stay in touch with the rest of the world pro tem.
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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2014, 06:10:00 PM »
I wouldn't trust USB in any way or form for sustained transfers of video, to be honest. Sure the advertised speeds look good, but most coupled products cannot sustain these speeds. I would even go further by saying that not that many products even achieve the advertised speeds. A portable hard disk will drop less frames than a normal pen drive, though.

If you are really serious about video, then get a proper SCSI card and 15.000 rpm SCSI hard disks or even faster. Then you venture in the area of server grade hardware made specifically for you. Don't worry, for the same amount of money you could have bought a new mid-range car of a decent brand. However, dropped frame rates will be non-existent.

A decent internal SATA3 hard disk will do the job you'll ask from it just fine. Don't use USB for capturing video directly, because the quality of USB products varies too much. There are type of ports that were actually designed for these kind of jobs. Firewire in the "old" days, Thunderbolt is the latest I believe.

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Re: Video Editors
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2014, 06:36:45 PM »
A decent internal SATA3 hard disk will do the job you'll ask from it just fine.

No problems here with capturing RAW or DV to 5400RPM IDE HDDs.

UDMA mode 4, (~66MB/s), will cover all analog TV resolutions whether it be a compressed or uncompressed capture.

Even UDMA mode 2 will cover all of them but it's good to have a bit of overhead.

It's a good use for those old IDE HDDs lying around providing you have a computer that still has an IDE port and don't put it on the same port as a ODD or the OS HDD.