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Author Topic: new alt.comp.freeware usenet thread with criticism of DonationCoder  (Read 11007 times)
mouser
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« on: May 16, 2006, 10:25:01 AM »

Someone pointed out to me there is a thread on alt.comp.freeware currently debating/criticizing donationcoder.com:

Quote

I'm mentioning it here in case anyone wants to chime in there and add their views, whether supportive of the donationcoder.com approach or expressing similar concerns as those on that thread.

If you do feel like standing up for this site it would be very much appreciated, but please be respectful and courteous and let's show them the kind of respectfullness that this site is all about.  no need to attack anyone and let's recognize that some of the issues they raise are valid ones. But it would be nice if they could hear from some people who know the site from personal experience and can let them know what we are really like  huh

We probably need to do a better job of simplifying the policy on this site; it's something i've been working on steadily, but sometimes it's hard when people say things that aren't true and can scare people away without them even giving our ideas a chance..



(note you can post through that google goups interface with just a quick signup if you aren't already signed up for google groups - i highly recommend you do register if not for this post, for later usenet posting).

ps. this has come up before on alt.comp.freeare in the past and has been discussed on the forum (http://www.donationcoder....um/index.php?topic=1756.0)

« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 10:28:20 AM by mouser » Logged
vegas
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2006, 11:05:05 AM »

These people are just anal zealots, DonationCoder has a great policy for its software & it isn't going to, nor should it change. And yes, I DO consider it to be Freeware, because in the end you can get it permanently for free, so what if you have to jump through a couple hoops.  I say let them argue all they want, they obviously have nothing more important to talk about.  If I like a program I'm not gonna let some very simple steps stop me from using it or calling it Freeware.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2006, 11:38:21 AM »

This has been debated, as you say, a number of times now - how about considering a rebranding to stop the squabbling. You could, instead of using the emotive word "freeware", call it "free2registerware"  which tells people it is free but you need to register.

Or start a new trend - communityware - all you need to do to get free software is join a community for free!
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mouser
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2006, 11:47:02 AM »

here's the real problem though:
no matter what we call it *here* -
people don't first download the software from this site.  that's a bit part of the problem.

they download it from software listing sites - fileforum, tucows, softpedia, snapfiles, etc.

none of those sites have a category for donationware.  It's either Shareware or Freeware - those are the only choices.

I like the name communityware (though there is a squatter on the domain name communityware.com).
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tinyvillager
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 04:16:26 PM »

 Try ---ing  not to--ooo  maaaake personal attacks on nay-sayers,ugh.

 I'm not gonna bother with the usenet thread,some people just fit a profile and you'll
never convince them,those who think this site is malicious and confusing either don't give
the premise a five second chance (literally) or are most likely those confused by doors
that open one way (and will stand in front of for 10 seconds).<i witnessed this the other
day and came close to murdering a close family member,i have a very short fuse. cheesy

 I donated to this site before the software key thing (which i fully support) and i donated not out of obligation or promise of reward but out of respect.Respect of genuine software developers,that listen to the end users.I respect the time and effort of the contributers of this site,be it software development or plain old helpful insight.If software discounts and givaways ceased to exist tomorrow i'd still donate and encourage others to do so cause bandwidth isn't free and again their is nothing wrong with rewarding someone with a financial compliment be it out of respect for the individual or the project(s) at large.The forum here practically moderates itself,it seems that way to me anyway, i believe that is do to the quality people donationcoder has attracted.When i listened to the first podcast and heard the different dialects i was amazed and fascinated by the diversity of donationcoder's members,call me naive,but i thought that was pretty damn cool.

Keep up the good work mouser Thmbsup


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zridling
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2006, 12:22:56 AM »

Perhaps we could start a targeted email campaign to ask that the major download sites begin distinguishing donationware.

It seems mouser hit upon the crux of the matter with users thinking they're downloading traditional "freeware." Even most freeware authors welcome donations — any donation — on their sites anymore. Hell, would an occasional thank you kill you?

 smiley
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 12:40:55 AM by zridling » Logged

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kimmchii
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2006, 02:26:43 AM »

one more comment here:
http://forum.maxthon.com/...iew=findpost&p=260520
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thomthowolf
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2006, 09:22:57 AM »


 I donated to this site before the software key thing (which i fully support) and i donated not out of obligation or promise of reward but out of respect.Respect of genuine software developers,that listen to the end users.I respect the time and effort of the contributers of this site,be it software development or plain old helpful insight.If software discounts and givaways ceased to exist tomorrow i'd still donate and encourage others to do so cause bandwidth isn't free and again their is nothing wrong with rewarding someone with a financial compliment be it out of respect for the individual or the project(s) at large.The forum here practically moderates itself,it seems that way to me anyway, i believe that is do to the quality people donationcoder has attracted.When i listened to the first podcast and heard the different dialects i was amazed and fascinated by the diversity of donationcoder's members,call me naive,but i thought that was pretty damn cool.

Keep up the good work mouser Thmbsup



Amen Brother (or sister)
I also donated out of respect for the software, and all the other stuff is just really great side benefits.
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2006, 02:17:34 PM »

I didn't read the thread to the very end. At one point long threads tend to regurgitate old arguments over and over. But my feeling is this:

People who are open to new ideas and differing views, are still open to new ideas and differing views. The others cannot be easily convinded and maybe they don't want to. And then there are many people in between who differ more or less from my views. uhm I just lost track of what I was going to say. Anyway, to quote from one of the five books in Douglas Adams' trilogy "Hitchhiker's Guide to(?) the Galaxy": "People are a problem".

I like it here. People who know me will take this simple statement into consideration. People who don't know me probably don't place any value on my brainfarts ayway ;-)
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thomthowolf
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2006, 02:27:32 PM »

OK, so I went to that site and managed to read the thread all the way to the end.  I posted a comment.  Now I just have to say how happy I am to be back here on this site.   cheesy  Some of the people over there need a mommie very, very badly. tongue
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4vrqrisPt
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2006, 02:45:50 PM »

OK, let me add my 2 cents worth.
I totally agree with  "tinyvillager's" assessment.
I came very close to posting in the alt.comp.freeware forum,
but decided it would be a total waste of time.

A lot of these people are ignorant and selfish.
There is absolutely nothing free in this world.
I was told this by my father when I was about 7 years old
and how true it is.

Some things may be "free" to you but somebody has to pay.
in the case of "freeware" , the author pays with countless hours
of coding,not to mention his/her equipment,ISP and website costs,
loss of free time to spend with their family etc etc

I think their (the many alt.comp.freeware people)attitude is
totally insulting to the software authors.
Not only that,but they act like they have the right to "Freeware".
Just ask many freeware authors,they will tell you how demanding
some people can be to the point of being totally obnoxious.

I think that "mouser" has found a very good balance with his
approach to DonationCoder.This approach is fair and very unique,
but unfortunately not appreciated by a few selfish individuals.

Thumbs up for "mouser".
To the supporters of DonationCoder:Consider yourselves more
enlightened than the other ignorant bunch.

Pete.
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Renegade
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2006, 05:32:35 PM »

I've found that there are quite a few people that expect far too much from freeware. They seem to think that just because you offer them something for free with no strings attached that you then owe them a lot more. They generally don't understand that creating software takes time, effort, and skills. Compensation for effort never occurs to them.

There are a lot of people that are appreciative too though. You always get the good with the bad.

If people can't handle taking a couple minutes of their time or an occasional email in exchange for getting software for free, they shouldn't use it. There are commercial alternatives that they are able to purchase.

Personally, quite often I prefer commercial software as I can then expect support or bug fixes. Not for all things, but for some. Sometimes freeware fits the bill nicely. I bought a piece of software a couple months ago that goes for about $1,000. I could have bought another piece of similar software to do the same thing for about $600, but the company that I bought it from is well known and I simply get a certain peace of mind that I wouldn't get otherwise. Sometimes you need to shell out for that. I really don't have much sympathy for people that are too cheap to spend money when they should be spending money.

Of course I can't post in the Google groups as it's simply too difficult to not rant about this. When I offer something for free, I prefer that people appreciate it for what it is and not simply complain about it.

But I suppose no good deed goes unpunished...  mad
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2006, 09:09:01 PM »

Keep up the 'good' and 'inspiring' work done by all associated with DonationCoder.com.
I thank God for leading me to your site and for the 'discovery' I made ... that there are still folks who believe in blessing others with their talents.
Being involved in voluntary work among senior citizens, hospice patients & the housebound, I was given TOTALLY FREE access to your site ... and I downloaded a very useful & helpful software with free licence for life.  How could I not send a humble donation after such an uplifting experience.   Thmbsup  smiley
Warmest regards from RKW in Malaysia.
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2006, 12:22:03 AM »

I am sorry Mouser I was trying to help however it seems I just muddled things up.
Please forgive me me.
 Sick
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Gothi[c]
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2006, 12:40:39 AM »

Quote
I too used "Screenshot Captor" recived a nag screen. When I questioned
the author he was rather rude .

Mouser? Rude? I don't think he even knows how to be rude. If there was an award for nicest programmer on the planet I'd give it to him. (Though I haven't seen him yet in his angry-at-the-computer mode Grin)
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2006, 04:02:26 AM »

His anger probably extends to "oh deerie me that makes me a little vexed ... now let's solve 30 new problems before lunch so that I can curb this tantrum ..."
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nowshining
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2006, 04:55:19 AM »

I agree with many, its your site and u can do what you when you and how u want, if u want to take this whole site down and post a one page "HAHA SUCKERS,I have got all your donation money and going to spend it all on well anything but this DARN site cheesy" fine....well I do know u wouldn't do that anyway Snowball by the way where is lisa oh wait ur mouser hey AH! I see ur acting name was snowball and were u one or the second one lisa had...so how was the life on THE SIMPSONS (so now when i see u on that show i know ur real name is mouser) XD

seriousely tho, I didn't care for having the wait thingy why should i care, I didn't want to code it, its ur work, your could just charge for visiting the site/forums/software and all like some sites do...no u don't u just ask for a donation of any amount It could even be a penny...plus u send out those neat packs, with magnets, and a donationcoder member card.. smiley by the way since I am here i will be requesting u on another forum to recode some things for me for windows 98...etc...so look for any requests there mouser Wink
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2006, 04:59:29 AM »

oh by the way I have download a many software that CLAIMED FREEWARE, installed it, nope even some that was labeled TRIAL never did have a trial...I just don't get how lazy a person can be, just go to the site here that the software asks and register for FREE and u get a 6 month code, how hard is that... I did and got mine trust me 6 months is a LOOOONG time to get the pop up again...and donating like i said above is not a fixed amount even a penny would do.... smiley and that's some cheap software...

so I give ur site a  thumbs up thumbs up
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2006, 09:00:02 PM »

The attitude expressed there is beyond me.  All I can think is that they didn't really look around here. 

This is one great place, and I haven't even utilized it 20%.  It's one of the most interactive forums I've seen.  That is so important to me.  You get a really good idea of what a software program does, or how something works, or what program in a category you personally would like best, when you have so much informative posting going back and forth.  The reviews are fantastic.  The contests and other interactivity are fantastic.  Most of all, the programmers giving of themselves is fantastic.  And the very savvy here don't seem to have an "elitist" attitude, either.  There are great programs offered here.  To me, it was totally natural to want to donate.  All I had to do was take a look around first to figure that out.  And so if you don't want to donate, big deal, you get reminders.  So what.  You get that with lots of trial software.  You register.  And of all the looking I've done around here, I haven't seen any members who feel they were ripped.  To the contrary, the very good stuff is promoted here.  I'm not the tech "really savvy" types you all are, but I know what's good and what's high-quality when I see it.  Donation Coder rocks. 
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2006, 03:37:25 PM »

The "bit" of the thread that I read was split about 50/50 between whinging about abuse of the true definition of freeware and people who "bottom" post. Better a bottom-poster than a bottom-feeder, I say...
 
Talk about a fuss about nothing. Some people would rather waste their time composing extended and repetitive complaints in newsgroups than spending a minute and a half requesting a free key for excellent software two times, at six month intervals before receiving, free of charge, a license that will never expire. I'm speechless, saddened, and very worried about what this (possibly) says about the state of the world that we live in...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2006, 03:40:47 PM by Darwin » Logged

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Rover
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2006, 11:31:16 PM »

geesh - I don't want to hear anymore whinning about DC policies, etc.  I just got back from phpclasses.org -- where they have FREEWARE -- and the site is so plaged with pop-ups and delay ads, I just wanted to puke.
Also, you MUST register to download some (authors choice) freeware.  When you do, you are automatically subscribed to "several newsletters."  You can opt out after you get your password, but what a pain in the arse.

DC is good.  Thmbsup  phpclasses.org bad!   Angry  thumb down
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Rover
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2006, 11:38:42 PM »

Just to prove my point.... pic 1 is the CLUTTERED site.... count the ads, need two hands?  There is at least 1 more at the bottom of the page.

Pic2 shows the "several newsletters" that you are automatically subscribed to.  I just finished unchecking every stinking one of them.  I almost missed the "allow pop-up" crap. 



* phpclasses1.jpg (112.79 KB, 986x913 - viewed 478 times.)

* phpclasses2.jpg (52.66 KB, 699x472 - viewed 456 times.)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 11:30:43 PM by Rover » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2006, 08:34:56 PM »

There is no valid criticism for this site or it's members.  The keys are there for a reason, and yes many freeware requires registration because most people don't give the feedback authors need.  DonationCoders' Rule!

Love Felicia  cheesy
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