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Last post Author Topic: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds  (Read 10752 times)

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
This is not over yet. :(

http://www.techdirt....wn-his-service.shtml

Quote
Feds Threaten To Arrest Lavabit Founder For Shutting Down His Service

from the either-you-help-us-spy-on-people-or-you're-a-criminal dept

The saga of Lavabit founder Ladar Levison is getting even more ridiculous, as he explains that the government has threatened him with criminal charges for his decision to shut down the business, rather than agree to some mysterious court order. The feds are apparently arguing that the act of shutting down the business, itself, was a violation of the order:

 :o

Are.you.fsck.ing.kidding?

Ahem... There's this thing that's illegal in the US and pretty much everywhere else in the world.

It's, uh, called "slavery".

"Slavery" is when you force someone to work for you against their will or where you steal someone's labour against their will.

Rather than become a slave for these criminals, he shut his business down. Now they're trying to say that not becoming a slave is illegal?

We are so fscking deep in shit if this is the kind of thinking we have in our governments... We are completely and truly fscked.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Attronarch

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2013, 02:39:02 AM »
P.S. If anyone knows of a good email service provider with a similar policy, please let me know.

riseup.net

wraith808

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Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2013, 09:51:31 AM »
^^
Quote
short of extended incarceration

I like how they say that twice. :) "We're not going to prison for you." Very reasonable!  :Thmbsup: (Do read the rest - I've taken that out of context there.)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2013, 10:19:51 PM »
Good article over at Techdirt on "corporate seppuku":

http://www.techdirt....seppuku-pledge.shtml

Quote
Who Will Take The Privacy Seppuku Pledge?

from the after-you dept

When Techdirt wrote recently about yet another secure email provider opting to close down its service rather than acquiesce in some future US government demand to spy on its users, we noted that Cryptocloud has promised something similar for a while -- what it terms "corporate seppuku":

Check there for more and links to other stuff.

It's a good question. It basically asks you to come forward if you have any decent principles. i.e. Don't expect many companies to do so. ;)

Crypto-cat and Cryptocloud are the only 2 to do so as of yet. I hope more get on board.

I think Patrick Henry came up with the most popularly cited precursor to "corporate seppuku":

Quote
Give me liberty, or give me death.

https://en.wikipedia...ty,_or_give_me_Death!

Longer version
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace – but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2013, 11:26:41 AM »
Whoever made this one must know Renegade: ;D

libertarian-chicken.jpg

 ;)

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2013, 12:42:14 PM »

Meanwhile, it's a few years before comedy gets outlawed, so they're trying.

Enter Codefellas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codefellas

"...In the first episode "When Topple Met Winters", protégé hacker Nicole Winters (Emily Heller) who works for "Special Projects", an electronic surveillance governmental agency, receives a call from elderly Special Agent Henry Topple (John Hodgman) informing her that she has just been assigned to him to spy on the general public."


Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2013, 06:05:49 PM »
Whoever made this one must know Renegade: ;D
 (see attachment in previous post)
 ;)

Hahahaha! ;D

I saw that and considered posting it, but held off. ;)

But, while you're bringing up the topic, here's a bit of satire I posted over at /r/whowillbuildtheroads:


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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Edvard

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2013, 06:27:21 PM »
Because with everything that's been happening lately, there is no longer any doubt that it is they who are the criminals.  This government has firmly and forever overstepped the bounds of the Constitution it claims to derive it's existence from.  

I really hope not "forever". :(

Me neither, but name me a time when the government or any of it's agencies did something 'over the line' and subsequently went "Oops, my bad" and backstepped?
I'm sure it's happened, but I'm also sure it got spun 'til it puked and buried in the background (and therefore, out of the history books) very quickly.

No fair replying "Watergate".

P.S. If anyone knows of a good email service provider with a similar policy, please let me know.
riseup.net

Interesting, thanks for the link.  I've also found a lot of other encrypted mail services lately, but they all charge quite a bit for their services (understandably so...).  It was very gracious of Mr. Levison to offer not one but TWO different tiers of free accounts, and though I used IMAP, I always kept the setting "Delete message from server" on.

Whoever made this one must know Renegade: ;D
 ...
 ;)

LOL!!  Awesome!

IainB

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2013, 08:34:21 AM »
No surprises here. Good to sea some more open discussion about it: Switching To Gmail May Leave Reporters' Sources At Risk
Just some snippets:
Quote
..."I have been running around in my newsroom, screaming about this ... for years," says Julia Angwin, who covers computer security and privacy at The Wall Street Journal. "There's so much evidence now that journalists are being targeted, that our communications are vulnerable and, mostly, that our sources are being put in jail."

...It's in this context that The New York Times decided to outsource its email to Google. This summer, the paper moved all of its reporters onto corporate Gmail accounts. Before the switch, Times emails were stored on servers it owned; now those messages are in Google's digital filing cabinet.

...Fred Cate, the director of the Center for Applied Cybersecurity Research at Indiana University, says a large email service provider like Google may very well offer better security. Still, Cate says, when it comes to mounting a legal defense against a leak investigation, the Times is making itself vulnerable.

..."There will be a gap. There is no question that there's going to be a gap," Cate says. "Because previously you would have had to serve that piece of paper on The New York Times."

Now, an investigator would serve Google. And if the request comes with a gag order, the Times might never know.

So, knowing the certified/documented risks - post Snowden - under what circumstances would it make sense for The Wall Street Journal to outsource their email to Gmail?

...Hmm...tricky question...    :tellme:

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2013, 08:42:02 AM »
So, knowing the certified/documented risks - post Snowden - under what circumstances would it make sense for The Wall Street Journal to outsource their email to Gmail?

...Hmm...tricky question...    :tellme:

Not really. It's actually pretty simple.

Just figure out how much business they'll lose when they completely sell out, which is probably not a lot because they don't actually report on any real news anyways, but assume the worst case, then figure out their entire email volume, project those numbers into the future as you would normally for business forecasts, then charge Google a rate for handling your email that will guarantee you an increased profit over any potential business loss. There's still the insurance and other risk factors, but meh, it's all just math.

The long & short is that they just charge Google to let Google snoop. :P

Because it's not about ethics or legality or serving customers... it's about abusing anything you possibly can to make a buck without getting caught.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2013, 08:48:22 AM »
Nah.. Forget all that...

Just figure out how much business they'll lose when they completely sell out,

They've already totally sold out, so what's the point? :P ;D
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2013, 11:39:56 AM »
From a security standpoint you'd have to be slap whacky to believe that cloud hosted anything is going to be more secure. It's a larger tastier target, with an exponential increase in moving parts exposure, and lines of responsibility that are as thin as air.

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2013, 07:33:01 PM »
http://www.theguardi...surveillance-snowden

Quote
It appears that Levison – who would not confirm this – has received a national security letter (NSL), a legal attempt to force him to hand over any and all data his company has so that the US authorities can track Snowden and anyone he communicated with. The fact that he closed the service rather than comply may well have opened him up to other legal challenges – about which he also can not comment.

More at the link.

It sounds like he's being hunted for having some principles.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

esoito

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2013, 11:27:56 PM »
Many of us managed for years without email...

Simple solution:  

*  Toss out your PC

*  Go and buy a quill

Happy days are here again.  ;)








If you're going round in circles then you're cutting corners.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 11:46:39 PM by esoito »

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 12:18:22 AM »
Many of us managed for years without email...

Simple solution: 

*  Toss out your PC

*  Go and buy a quill

Happy days are here again.  ;)

Hmmm... The nerve damage in my thumb is saying "no thanks - hitting the space bar is easier". :)

I do remember those days, but not so much the quill. ;)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

4wd

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2013, 12:49:05 AM »
Just started reading a new book, (fiction), in which a method was stated to avoid having your email read, without having to encrypt it, (they used simple word code in the book).

Both parties use the same email account and only write drafts, ie.

Person A writes a draft and saves it.
Person B reads, deletes, and writes a new one.
Person A reads, deletes, etc, etc.

No email is actually sent between servers.

Interesting idea, don't know how feasible it would be, (barring unauthorised remote access to the email server).

Renegade

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 03:45:43 AM »
Just started reading a new book, (fiction), in which a method was stated to avoid having your email read, without having to encrypt it, (they used simple word code in the book).

Both parties use the same email account and only write drafts, ie.

Person A writes a draft and saves it.
Person B reads, deletes, and writes a new one.
Person A reads, deletes, etc, etc.

No email is actually sent between servers.

Interesting idea, don't know how feasible it would be, (barring unauthorised remote access to the email server).

That method has been used in real life. I know a fellow who set up systems for the Hell's Angels years ago, and that was one of the things he taught people to do.

For it to work, you need to control the email server/web server, etc. You can't really do that with Gmail or Hotmail.

Another obvious problem is that you need a specific account for every contact. e.g. 4wdandrenegade@blah.com, 4wdand40hz@blah.com, etc.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: Edward Snowden's Email Provider Shut Down Rather Than Comply With Feds
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2013, 06:36:56 AM »
I like the idea of hiding things in plain sight. Like having two women on Facebook having an ongoing pissing contest over their children's minor scholastic achievements...that should bore the hell out of anyone in no time flat. However if each child and achievement is actually a weighted reference to something else, well... (slang is such a funny thing) it all becomes a matter of what's not said.