Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 03, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: Worth Reading: Trevor Pott's editorial on NSA PRISM and its real ramifications  (Read 64486 times)

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Eric Snowden 'missing' in Hong Kong

I'm of a mind that this is not foul play.  No one would be that stupid yet, would they?

Part of me feels like there's some vague irony in the fact that his name is "Snowden", like as in the Snowden from Catch-22.

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Funny really how the act of a patriot, and the Patriot Act are diametrically apposed.

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Eric Snowden 'missing' in Hong Kong

I'm of a mind that this is not foul play.  No one would be that stupid yet, would they?

Part of me feels like there's some vague irony in the fact that his name is "Snowden", like as in the Snowden from Catch-22.

Hmm.

"Snowden's choice to remain in Hong Kong was "baffling to some legal experts" reports the BBC's Jennifer Pak from the Chinese territory"

Earlier an article (that I can't quite place right now) was saying that going to Hong Kong was "brilliant" because it was supposed to be hard to extradite him from there.

He also applied to Iceland for asylum but they invoked a technicality and gave him a grumpy chilly answer back.

So we'll see a nice case of "if you anger the big bad wolf", does he blow your house down and eat you?


app103

  • That scary taskbar girl
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2006
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,666
    • View Profile
    • App's Apps
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Well, let's hope we don't hear reports about him being seen attempting to run across the N. Korean border.

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
New Facebook Privacy Controls

nsafunny.jpg

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Well, let's hope we don't hear reports about him being seen attempting to run across the N. Korean border.

I expect him to disappear, never to be seen again. Later, there will come rumors and "high credibility" reports of him being seen in Beijing or Moscow - which will "only go to show he was working with foreign enemies all along" and that his going public was a desperate attempt to gain sympathy and protection after his original deal with "whoever he was working for" with went sour.

ack.jpg

I also expect to see more airplay for his dippy dancer girlfriend who is now spouting childish and self-serving nonsense on her blog. Gag!

(Note: her actual blog has become inaccessible lately in the wake of the above. Try the wayback machine...)

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Actually, as of now, he's in hiding voluntarily.  There was an interview with his contact at the BBC (can't get to the link right now) with a pointed question of do you know where he is now?  And the answer was yes, but I'm not telling.

Of course, that makes that bloke a target...

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Well, let's hope we don't hear reports about him being seen attempting to run across the N. Korean border.

I expect him to disappear, never to be seen again. Later, there will come rumors and "high credibility" reports of him being seen in Beijing or Moscow - which will "only go to show he was working with foreign enemies all along" and that his going public was a desperate attempt to gain sympathy and protection after his original deal with "whoever he was working for" with went sour.


Hm... No, they need to keep him in view as an example warning to others. It's to easy to write one's own ending (DB Cooper) if he vanishes. Mock trial and a Public apology while looking defeated before being whisked off to prison ... Where he can easily be incidentally killed to keep the official story short and tidy.



CenturyLink Prism TV

logoCenturylinkPrism.gif
Prism TV Premium.jpg


Is this accidental truth in advertising?

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Hm... No, they need to keep him in view as an example warning to others.

No they don't. And his silence is more valuable than him being around as an example. The spin doctors are only preaching to the choir and the borderline undecided anyway. And roughly 50% plus change of the population already think he shouldn't have done it regardless.

[quotq=e]It's to easy to write one's own ending (DB Cooper) if he vanishes.
[/quote]

Yes it is. But that works both ways. Like BinLaden - it's scarier when you know the shark is out there somewhere rather than right alongside your boat where you can do several things about it.

No...out in the wild somewhere (eeek! :tellme:)...using his knowledge to aid and abet the enemy? I think he's far more valuable to the current powers if it's generally believed he's still loose and unpunished. That gets people angry because "he got away with it." And also serves as justification for expanded "security" legislation and suppression of freedoms.

Not to say they couldn't just wack him and still let people think he was alive. That strategy proven effective too.

Not like they need to keep him alive. With the overall hostility being shown towards this guy by the media (and the Legislature) there's small chance of him attaining martyr status if they do. Which is why whistleblowers generally get pilloried with impunity despite the so-called "protections" that are on place to prevent it. And in this case, there's very little chance of much public support since this county seems to be doing everything in it's power to not see that a very real coup took place within the government shortly after the WTC attack - and they're now living in a police state. That's the elephant in the room nobody even wants to acknowledge, let alone deal with. (DC isn't the only place that has a Basement for topics some people consider threatening or inappropriate.  ;) :P  ;D)

elephant_in_the_room_talk.jpg

And as time goes on, it will become increasingly difficult (or "legal") to do anything about it. Especially since no government - no matter how enlightened - has ever willingly relinquished additional power once they've been granted it. And ours is far from enlightened.
 :(
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 04:45:59 PM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Which is why whistleblowers generally get pilloried with impunity despite the so-called "protections" that are on place to prevent it. And in this case, there's very little chance of much public support since this county seems to be doing everything in it's power to not see that a very real coup took place within the government shortly after the WTC attack - and they're now living in a police state.

Cynical as I am...it really is hard to believe people are that stupid. What it is going to take to galvanize them into action before it's to late? ...Or is it already to late?

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
ifindyourlackofcynicism.jpg

Like sheep to the slaughter... U.S. majority backs N.S.A. surveillance

idontwanttoliveonthisplanet.jpg

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Like sheep to the slaughter... 18900012-us-majority-backs-nsa-surveillance

(Nice graphic :))

Okay, but here's the thing...where are all these people who allegedly think it is just Jim Dandy fine to spy on the public? I've never met one yet. Could this be a classic case of BS statistics where the question is framed in such a way that the outcome is virtually guaranteed? Or does half the country really have single digit IQs?

I mean seriously trusting the media to give us an honest assessment of what people really think? I'm thinking that the reality poles are closer to 98% screw that ... But some of the votes got lost on their way through the propaganda machine. They (of the infamous "Them") are just trying to use peer pressure to make people feel like they (the singular individual - poor bastard) are alone in feeling violated by this insane behavior.

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
There's that good old cynicism. :)

And you've got a point.  It could be to gather support.  But, in truth, I don't think so.  For the most part (as shown by the graphic) even in the case of gross wrongs committed, as long as they're legal if not moral, people's support is along party lines.

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
*Sigh*

Bart Simpson: What do you want for your birthday grandpa?

Grandpa: I want to be dead!

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
I have a rant about this and party lines... but I'll post it when I get home.  It's a doozy. :)  So I guess it's going in the basement.

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Would you stop aiming for the basement...we'll lose 40hz when it goes there. :(

zridling

  • Friend of the Site
  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,292
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
assange-vs-zuckerman.jpg

Hate to tell you so, but Richard Stallman said that all your computer data belongs to them:
"One reason you should not use web applications to do your computing is that you lose control," he said. "It's just as bad as using a proprietary program. Do your own computing on your own computer with your copy of a freedom-respecting program. If you use a proprietary program or somebody else's web server, you're defenceless. You're putty in the hands of whoever developed that software."

And then there is Paul Craig Roberts:
The presstitute media handled these stories in ways that protected the government’s lawlessness from scrutiny and public outrage. The usual spin was that the public needs to be safe from terrorists, and safety is what the government is providing....

There is no longer any doubt whatsoever that the US government is lawless, that it regards the US Constitution as a scrap of paper, that it does not believe Americans have any rights other than those that the government tolerates at any point in time, and that the government has no fear of being held accountable by the weak and castrated US Congress, the sycophantic federal courts, a controlled media, and an insouciant public....

Demonization is the US government’s technique for discrediting Bradley Manning for complying with the US Military Code and reporting war crimes and for persecuting Julian Assange of Wikileaks for reporting leaked information about the US government’s crimes. Demonization and false charges will be the government’s weapon against Snowden.

If Washington and its presstitutes can convince Americans that courageous people, who are trying to inform Americans that their historic rights are disappearing into a police state, are espionage agents of foreign powers, America can continue to be subverted by its own government.

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Would you stop aiming for the basement...we'll lose 40hz when it goes there. :(

Sorry... didn't think of that.  I'm just surprised that its not there already, so its sort of tongue in cheek.

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Would you stop aiming for the basement

Damn right. THEY monitor the Basement don't ya know?  :tellme:

Quote
...we'll lose 40hz when it goes there. :(

Why do you say that as if it were a bad thing? :P 8) ;D

(Thx btw! ;) )


barney

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,282
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Basement?  Doesn't belong there.

This thread is about folk who want security, the ability to avoid decisions (i.e., avoid thinking), and the few of us that choose not to follow that particular route.  Franklin said it best (please forgive any misquote), "Those who would exchange liberty for security deserve neither."  Apart from the political side, this thread has impact upon every person who creates software and many who use that software, regardless of their political stance.  In the 1984 position we find ourselves, such creation and usage is anathema to the powers that [would try to]  rule over us.  Given that precept, this thread is timely and important to most everyone here, even the lurkers.  'Tis not a basement topic so much as it is a survival topic.  (I'm not much into Viva la Revolucion, but I'm damned proud of my freedoms, and will do my best to keep them.)

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,294
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
+1^ - Well said barney!

CWuestefeld

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,001
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
... led the new generation to believe the US Constitution, through its government,  grants it's citizens rights - when in fact, the actual wording only serves to restrict the powers given - by the people - to their own government.

This is true, but there's more to it than that.

Virtually everyone I talk to believes that America was a great experiment in democratic rule, showing that the revisionism has successfully erased the single biggest aspect of our nation's founding principle. The idea that America was a bold experiment in a new concept of democracy is false: by the time the Constitution was written, democracy had been around for a couple of millennia. We all know the ancient Greeks did it, but somehow fail to connect those dots.

During the American revolution, John Adams went to the Netherlands seeking loans to support the American war effort. Even at that time, the Netherlands were democratic, with Adams appealing to their parliamentary body. So it can even be said that part of what enabled the independence of America was the pre-existing democratic states.

Democracy is a red herring, it's just a by-product of the real triumph.

What was really revolutionary about the US Constitution and the nation it defined was the idea of government that only possesses limited, explicitly enumerated powers that the people have decided to cede to it (as described in Thomas Paine's Common Sense, which I urge you to read in addition to the text of the Constitution itself).

In this paradigm, no matter how much we believe that some policy is a good idea, the government is only allowed to undertake it if it's one of the powers granted by the Constitution. There is an explicit list of what Congress is allowed to do in the document, under Article I Section 8. Consider the types of things that our federal government does today, and try to find some justification for it in that list. Regulations covering the War on Drugs, universal healthcare, standardized education, federally-defined drinking ages, and countless other things require huge stretches of the imagination to find in that list.

In other words, almost everything the federal government does today is illegal, given an objective reading of the Constitution. This is nothing new, it's been going on since the early 20th century, if not longer.

Most all of this crap started from the G.W. Bushy era

This is quite false. The problems with invasions of our private communications began under Clinton, at least (recall, for example, the Clipper chip). The ridiculous War on Drugs was brought to us by President Nixon. The vast reach of the Nanny State began with FDR, with big bumps under LBJ, GWB, and Obama. But the seeds of the preeminent federal government (as opposed to the sovereignty of the States) was planted by Lincoln (of course slavery is evil, but Lincoln's actual goal wasn't to stop slavery, but to cement a strong federal government; Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery, but freeing the slaves didn't happen until the war was well underway, a strategy to weaken the South).

UPDATE: fix spelling
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 11:24:50 AM by CWuestefeld »

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member

I dunno, it feels different now.

I ignored the War on Drugs as the comedy it is, and it never mattered to my life.

But the interlocking agenda selling/sniffing internet data are different - they are much closer to the old horrors of 1984 and Harrison Bergeron. (No one seems to invoke that story lately!)


wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,405
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Basement?  Doesn't belong there.

I think that's part of where the divide comes in seeing that things sometimes *do* belong there, and what it's for.  The vast majority of DC come here for the software and to discuss issues surrounding that central vision.  Every thing else is added on.  Because of that focus, there's a wide range of people here, that coexist for the most part peacefully.  Politics and religion are unfortunately not areas of peace.  And many times, though things are on the surface seemingly related to that vision of software (and by inclusion hardware and things computer related), they are in reality political/religious issues swaddled in a technological covering.  And, let's not judge the acceptance of said issues by the vocal majority either- there are several that are by the nature of such threads excluded.  To take SJ's mention of losing 40 when we go to the basement... there are some that are lost when the mention of said topics goes off into political land.  It is for that reason that I was actually surprised when it wasn't there... because this thread isn't talking about the technology behind said issue, but rather diving head first into the politics.

Also, I'd note that I only said surprised.  Whether I agree or disagree that this needs to be front and center, that's a different story.  But it is definitely not something that if we were to sit around in a true living room with everyone on the board that would be able to be discussed among the non-homogeneous population of DC IMO.  And that's what the basement is for IMO.  Not to make something second class, nor to say something intrinsic about the topic.  But to keep the peace, and keep the boards from spiraling into what so many become.