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Last post Author Topic: 2013 Version: Browser Wars  (Read 29152 times)

40hz

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2013, 08:37:09 PM »
My biggest problem with Chrome is that I can't escape the feeling that more is going on under the hood than I know about. Mostly in terms of tracking what I'm doing. Maybe it's excessive paranoia on my part. But enough companies (that should know better) have been caught playing those games that I don't think I'm completely crazy being concerned about it.

Tracking my personal browsing is an annoyance that would offend me if I discovered it happened. But I really don't care so much about that. What I do worry about is what may be seen when I access some of my clients' web-based systems. Because I have liability exposure if something leaks or gets compromised because of me.


wraith808

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2013, 08:41:51 PM »
I have to sign into a web service just to get basic security for the browser?

Eh?  What do you mean?

Joe Hone

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2013, 08:47:30 PM »
Judging from the comments in this thread, browsers are like ethnic food - your favorite may be way down on my list. :P

I'm on the net constantly all day long - I do research for my day job, upload about 400 MB of audio a week for my night job, general web surfing. I have 5 browsers on my desktop and they all are open at some point during the week, Chrome, FF, IE, Maxthon, Opera. Day in and day out, Chrome is by far the fastest to open, easiest to use. FF is ridiculous, sometimes taking 60 seconds to update when I need immediate access for a client. Maxthon isn't that easy for me to use, like the minds that developed it don't work like mine. Opera and IE, I'm pretty indifferent to their performance. I'm also using 3 computers, and I find the performance I've described to be fairly consistent between all of them.

4wd

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 08:59:19 PM »
I have to sign into a web service just to get basic security for the browser?

Eh?  What do you mean?

Please point out where I can enter a Master Password to encrypt any saved passwords.  Unless it's changed really recently, they've stated that they're not going to do it and they'll implement it by having you log into your Google account, (and that seems to be for syncing your unencrypted passwords so you can have them spread across even more devices).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:09:52 PM by 4wd »

Josh

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2013, 09:13:23 PM »
To be honest, I've had a love-hate relationship with opera. I really have tried to like it. I've made it my default browser, uninstalling all others so I wouldn't be tempted to swap, for months at a time. The problem comes into play when multiple services or sites would fail to work. Yes, Opera does a good job explaining to me that many of these sites intentionally block opera and that there is nothing they can do. To a point, I understand this. My problem, really, is that all other browsers work fine. That, and the fact that they were late to the extensions game helped other browsers get a big foothold on that market. Extensions on opera leave a lot to be desired. Yes, Opera is nice, but I really cannot see making it my default browser any time soon.

But in the end, whatever works for you, use it. I will do the same and right now, that is Chrome as it has been for the last year.

Paul Keith

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2013, 09:34:58 PM »
Never really got into Opera, too much like the old Netscape Navigator, tries to do everything instead of doing one thing really, really well, (yes, I know I can just not use the parts I don't want to but then...why have them there in the first place?).

Convenience and exclusivity when you just need things to work.

There are no other notepad/browser hybrid that is as lightweight as Opera's. (Maxthon cloud comes closest but more because it has a built-in app launcher for an actual external notepad.)

Torrents are meant for seeding but sometimes you just want a no-nonsense quick install of an iso and here again, there are no torrent programs that have a native built-in browser for this type of purpose.

The same can be said for a native Speed Dial, a native RSS Reader, a native mail client.

It's more of a remote control than an I don't need it problem.

The features are nice in theory because they are exclusive to Opera in a pure .exe type of situation. There really is no singular executable out there that does what Opera does at providing a seamless torrent client or a seamless panel notes and many of the seamless features was then adopted by more modern browsers such as cloud sync for notes, active extensions in tray for Chrome (the old Widgets of Opera that need not have Opera open) and things like cascading windows are still trying to be mimicked by tiletabs, vertical splitters and other clunky features in other browsers.

It's really all great exclusive features IF Opera does not bungle up the presentation...but it's still exclusive one of a kind features that when other browsers took it, they were able to present it as a way to differentiate their browser.

Key examples:

Maxthon's "Cloud" Browser is pretty much Opera Unite with an interface and a lot less powerful.

Firefox's exclusive Scrapbook add-on is pretty much Opera not being smart enough to integrate Obook.

Opera mail and rss is pretty much an early edition of Flock's sidebar. (Flock was even smart enough to empower their notes sidebar as a clipper but dumb not to mimic Opera's basic plain text notes for non-clipped content)

Opera links is basically an underpowered resource sniffer that Maxthon has sold as a way to quickly download youtube and image files.

Opera torrent is/was basically the only torrent client that can trick you into thinking a torrent download was a regular download.

Opera widgets is basically one half K-meleon preloader/other half Google apps that stay active when the browser is closed.

Opera MDI like cascading windows is an under-animated illusion that gave the Chrome the illusion of having lightweight separate process tabs.

Opera stacks is a fully featured successor of the Taboo Firefox Add-on if Opera understood not to delegate it to opened tabs.

Opera sessions is still one of the native sessions that could save active window only and can recover full windows via a separate trashcan but Opera just insists on not making it easy to manage it like their bookmarks.

Opera's start bar was the reason why Google's chrome star was better integrated as a lightweight feel bookmarks than Firefox's star which of course Firefox also kind of took and Opera kind of took away.

Opera's keyboard shortcuts are still uniquely it's own for being to switch around tabs by using 1-2 and using gestures right mouse hold - left mouse to move back and forth between pages because of how powerful and unanimous the keyboard shortcuts allow it to be.

...these are not your regular "add-on developers will develop for it" add-on designs nor are these your typical Opera has innovative concepts that get stolen theory. Presented, named and given the same focus as Opera likes to give focus to their Speed Dial and Extensions correctly...these things changed the other browsers and still could have changed the desktop software world forever. There's just no software that presented these ideas other than Opera and by present, I don't mean introduced or included the feature but literally present a product that literally competed and out-exclusive other non-browser software if Opera only went to "update" these features to their modern capability.

(Example, torrent download could have been marketed as a unified download manager that combined the explanation Maxthon has for it's resource sniffer with torrents in general and then re-combined with the wand for private torrent usage while adding some statistics like how many times you leeched/seeded specifically from a wand account but not just for torrents but like a download history integrating with notes log and a wishlist bookmark integrating with weblinks that function as a native way of say...viewing a piratebay link reminder when you are viewing an IMDB page.)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 09:47:02 PM by Paul Keith »

erikts

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2013, 10:20:31 PM »
Main browser : Firefox
Other installed browsers : Chrome, Opera, IE

wraith808

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2013, 11:20:21 PM »
I have to sign into a web service just to get basic security for the browser?

Eh?  What do you mean?

Please point out where I can enter a Master Password to encrypt any saved passwords.  Unless it's changed really recently, they've stated that they're not going to do it and they'll implement it by having you log into your Google account, (and that seems to be for syncing your unencrypted passwords so you can have them spread across even more devices).

I wasn't defending by any means- I just didn't get what you meant, as basic security could mean a lot of things.  And now that you've clarified, truly, I don't know.  I don't save my passwords in my browser, and have that shut off, as I use 1Password to save my passwords in my browser (and have never used any browser for that, for a few reasons).  I looked for a second and couldn't figure it out.  Of course, that doesn't mean anything, but I'll take your word for it.

4wd

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2013, 12:38:14 AM »
I wasn't defending by any means- I just didn't get what you meant, as basic security could mean a lot of things.

Sorry, didn't mean to appear as if I was jumping on you  :-[

Quote
I don't save my passwords in my browser, and have that shut off, as I use 1Password to save my passwords in my browser (and have never used any browser for that, for a few reasons).

Never quite got the hang of using yet another program to store passwords since the only reason I need to store them is for websites, anything else, (banking, LAN, VPS, the important stuff, etc), isn't stored anywhere except in braincells.

Got KeePass on the Android phone so I can always look up the password to a website if I can't remember it but that's about it.

joiwind

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2013, 06:22:35 AM »
I alternate between K-Meleon v 1.7.0 and SWare Iron 24.... depending on my mood  ;D

I feel relatively "safe" with both, particularly with KM as it only does what I ask it to. However KM is sadly coming to an end sooner or later for various reasons (see the KM forum).
.: I use K-Meleon - the browser you can control - but I love Pale Moon too :.

f0dder

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2013, 07:09:09 AM »
I've been through so many browsers that I couldn't list them even if I tried to.

These days, it's FireFox as main browser on my workstation - it's fast, it has addons, and it's Panorama/TabGroups + LazyLoad is invaluable for the way I use a browser. And even if I didn't surf shady areas of the web (which I almost don't do), I still wouldn't surf without the "panzering". I don't like to be tracked, EOD, and even legitimate sites can have their banner-server hacked to serve malware. I use Chrome as my secondary browser when I need Flash content, and for Java content (which is limited to the retarded Danish NemID) I fire up a linux virtual machine.

On my work laptop, I tend to use Chrome more - it simply has better tools for webdev than firefox, IMHO. I keep the "persistant" stuff (JIRA, Confluence, various other work-related webapps) in FireFox, some other browsing/reference stuff as well, but the flurry of "in progress" stuff tends to happen in Chrome. I used to have gmail (yup, we use that corporate-wide) open in FF, but have moved it to Chrome - having it open for extended periods of time causes a lot of stutter in the fox.

Other than that, I open IE (including old versions in virtual machines, *sigh*) for compatibility testing, or when I need to log on to Citrix (again, *sigh*) - and can't really be bothered to use other browsers. There's no reason to do so for me, and compatibility-wise IE+FF+Chrome already covers the three most widely used rendering engines.
- carpe noctem

MrCrispy

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2013, 04:27:08 PM »
The answer is simple - Firefox can do anything the other browsers can, and much much more, thanks to its addons. You *might* see speed differences but these are highly dependent on hardware, plugins, no. of open tabs etc, and thus not really a reliable metric.

Chrome's only virtue is that it increased competition, but it also bought about horrid UI paradigms (tabs in title bar), insane numbering schemes etc.

4wd

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2013, 04:54:24 PM »
...but it also bought about horrid UI paradigms (tabs in title bar), insane numbering schemes etc.


+1000!!!

TaoPhoenix

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 05:50:12 PM »
The answer is simple ... You *might* see speed differences but these are highly dependent on hardware, plugins, no. of open tabs etc...

Except I AM seeing speed differences, over and over. It takes me twelve seconds to render four web pages...

Edvard

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2013, 10:41:00 PM »
Chromium, Firefox Nightly.  In that order.

Jibz

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 12:34:37 AM »
Chrome's only virtue is that it increased competition, but it also bought about horrid UI paradigms (tabs in title bar), insane numbering schemes etc.

I agree about the version numbering, though I do like the reason behind it -- their rapid release schedule has worked well for them (but perhaps not quite as well for FF).

I do generally like the UI though, annoying as it may feel at first, there is nothing getting in your way, and vertical space is still sparse.  And it certainly is better than that odd FF menu button with the double width menu -- if you want to manually check for updates because the auto-check isn't working for a change, you have to find About in the Help menu, which (to me) feels a bit like that game where you have to move your mouse pointer through a maze without touching the walls ;D.

There are two things that do bug me about the Chrome UI -- only one row of tabs, and the missing separator in bookmarks.

MrCrispy

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 04:29:26 PM »
Chrome also insists in going out of its way to prevent me from doing certain things -

- change the location of the profile folder. I don't want it on the c: drive
- not run googleupdate.exe on startup
- no multi row tabs

I've turned off web history for my google account, but I somehow don't feel comfortable in Chrome, as if it might still be tracking me (tin foil hat on). I do like Chrome's sync feature though.

Darwin

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 05:58:59 PM »
I just use IE. Can't be bothered with using different browsers and, as it's part of the OS and I can't rip it out, I just use it. Generally, I am satisfied with it and see no reason to switch to anything else.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

techidave

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 06:49:42 PM »
While I really like Firefox there are a few sites that work better with IE.  Our Office 365 login and MS Volume Licensing download pages work so much better with IE than anything else.  There are others but I cannot remember them right now.  I never was a Chrome fan and have tried it several times.

erikts

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2013, 03:41:13 AM »

tslim

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2013, 04:35:11 AM »
Same book, three different prices. Only difference is the browsers used. (reddit)
 (see attachment in previous post)

That matter is indeed browser irrelevant. Anyway, thanks a lot for the story, it really teaches me a good lesson. I use to believe internet is the greatest mean to protect customer from being bully with unfair pricing simply because they are innocent about how much certain item is sold in other part of the world.

40hz

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 08:38:44 AM »
how much certain item is sold in other part of the world.

I don't really see where that offers the customer any protection.

Local prices have always varied due to numerous factors that include such things as: shipping costs, local regulatory compliance expenses, VAT, import duties, exchange rates, etc.

Sad truth is, an "open market" seldom guarantees good prices for the consumer. Look at drugs. The pharmaceutical industry charges significantly higher prices in countries where there is little government involvement or regulation in prescription drug pricing. I can go up online and check what the price of a prescription medication would be almost anywhere in the world. But knowing that has zero effect on what I'll have to pay for it where I am.

Prices also aren't always fixed. If you're willing to negotiate, many times you'll discover the "price as marked" isn't carved in stone. Maybe not always. But often enough that I've learned to ask if the price I'm originally being quoted is final. About half the time it's not. Especially if I make it plain I'm ready to buy immediately - but not at the price I've just been given.
 8)

Tinman57

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2013, 05:28:04 PM »
  I get the best of all 3 worlds by using Avant Browser which incorporates Chrome, Firefox and IE.   :P

4wd

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2013, 07:27:02 PM »
  I get the best of all 3 worlds by using Avant Browser which incorporates Chrome, Firefox and IE.   :P

monitoring, memory leaks, insecurities ?

 ;D

f0dder

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Re: 2013 Version: Browser Wars
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2013, 05:23:41 AM »
monitoring, memory leaks, insecurities ?
Nice one :D
- carpe noctem