Found on the Web: Short Rant Against Users of Free Web Apps

[superboyac]

The only really "free" software out there is that which comes for "free" as in "no money" AND has a GPL-type license (or BSD or whatever -- you know what I mean there).

-Renegade link=topic=29521.msg273891#msg273891

I do, being involved with the FOSS yahoos.

But one problem is they're as guilty as the next guy with their "free as in beer" spiel. While it's a clever argument, it just causes more confusion for most people. That's why I was hoping a term like "Libre" would catch on for the FOSS world. But I'm not holding my breath.

And in all fairness, calling it "free open-source software" wouldn't have become the source of confusion it has - if pretenders and commercial interests didn't adopt the exact same terminology for things that are very different from what the FOSS movement originators meant (and almost everybody understood it to mean) - when they first started using the terms "free" and "open-source."

Of course, one of the best ways to dilute an opponent's argument is to try to "ambiguate" it by calling its opposite by the same name. That's why some of the most brutal and oppressive dictatorships took to prefixing the names of their nations with: The Democratic Republic of...
 

-40hz (January 06, 2012, 07:29 AM)

So true.

[superboyac]

Okay, here's we go:

Freemium from the start is just fine. Freemium is different from CrippleWare. For some definitions: Crippleware is that really irritating business where they offer a trial version say of a music converter, then it pops up "sorry, the 'free' version only processes 15 seconds of your song. To process a whole song, pay $29.95". Into the trash it goes. That feels 90's to me, and remember *every* one of these widgets is 29.95 or something. Nag screens also suk.

Good Freemium (according to a book at home) is "80-20" etc. (I think the book even put it at 90-10). 80% of basic usability is there, and even some nice tweaks. The Paid version has a few complicated but powerful features aimed at power users. 80-20 also describes the user base - 80% would use it to convert 7 songs for that mix and forget about it.

Forget Google and Facebook - they're one shot deals "not likely to happen again" for years.

You can't make a living writing fun little apps. It's the same thing the media companies are whining about - they can't make money with cheap copied 200 word rehashes of AP releases, or maybe comics.

It's an educational process. It really is the Information Superthruway, which includes techniques to do things such as with software widgets. The Old Timers are sad that low hanging fruit isn't cutting it anymore. Then again, neither is door to door lint brush cases. In this educational process, it's a GOOD thing that people can do the basics now. That means in general we're not seeing those "support call jokes" about people who can't find the on switch. Society as a whole improves when the support calls change to "How do I downsample (is that the right word - I don't know) an MP3 into a MIDI format for my keyboard?"

Edit: I meant to add that you can't (easily! Hello Angry Birds!) make a *living* at writing small apps. Hoping I'm not being obvious, a good living is at least $1000 gross a month and that's assuming you're in an area with cheap rent. (After all, Apps are mostly location-agnostic.) What I do see is that someone has the "rent paying" job and then a side venture with apps brings maybe $200 a month for Entertainment.

-TaoPhoenix (January 06, 2012, 10:30 AM)

So how can people who are good at programming make a living now?  Let's say you thought you could do it by making a couple of cool shareware things, but now you realize you can't make a living doing that.  What else can these developers do?  Because the skillset is there, and it's not obsolete...so somehow they should be able to make a living with it. But what is the way?

[wraith808]

But what is the way?

-superboyac (January 06, 2012, 01:37 PM)

*sigh*  Work for the man.  *sigh*

And I say this from heartbreaking experience.

[40hz]

Because the skillset is there, and it's not obsolete...so somehow they should be able to make a living with it. But what is the way?

-superboyac (January 06, 2012, 01:37 PM)

I think what you're seeing is a natural consequence of a maturing market and technology. The same thing happened with automobiles and radio. There used to be dozens of car companies and probably several dozen radio manufacturers.

In the early days there was a big opportunity to make your mark on the industry because best practices and industry standards don't yet exist. Those that got in early got the opportunity to shape the technologies and industries into what their own personal vision of the Age of Wireless was. Those that followed (in most cases) either had to have a breakthrough idea (and successfully market it) - or fall into line with where the trends were going.

The advantage is this brings standards to an industry - which frequently benefits the consumer. The downside is it creates barriers to entry for innovation - and tends to favor the biggest players.

In places where there isn't a universally agreed upon set of industry standards (eg: tablet PCs, smartphones, ebook readers) there a great deal of confusion and infighting as each player tries to impose their vision on the rest of the world. And coincidentally pocket all the money in the process.

There was a time when business competition was confined to marketing and technical innovation. Nowadays, it's legal subterfuge and chicanery - with (often groundless) patent litigation being the tool of choice for fighting the battle - all with the intent of eliminating competition in the courtroom before the customer gets a chance to weigh in on it.

So what's the future look like for an indy software developer? I think wraith hit it on the head with his comment above. And as the lion's share of market is gradually moved into various licensing silos, proprietary formats, and walled-garden distribution mechanisms by the likes of Microsoft and Apple, it's only a matter of time before most developers are either forced to go with them - or quit the field.

This won't happen overnight. But right now, it looks like the die is cast and the Golden Age of Open Standards and Personal Computing is heading into the realm of history and legend. Major tech businesses, after befitting from the huge market created by open standards, are now flagrantly opposed to 'open' anything. And they are spending their legal and political influence money to make sure whatever openness there is comes to an end as quickly as possible.

And the politicians and governments of the supposed "free world" are not opposed to this happening. Open standards in personal computing, and unrestricted global communication, are becoming viewed as a threat - either to national security in the form of cyber-terrorism and criminal actions - or to vested political and business interests in the form of unrestricted communications. Maybe the governments can't find a 100% effective or legal way to stamp out something like Wikileaks - but they certainly can put a stranglehold on the communications pipeline such that it will no longer be possible to evade government censorship over the main data networks. Or get the word out to the entire planet in a quick and efficient manner.

I wish software developers the best of luck. Because as things stand right now, the Powers That Be very much want the Internet as we know it, along with the classic personal computer, to be seriously gone.

Once everybody is safely corralled into heavily monitored and remotely controlled tablet computing and smart phone platforms, the governments will breath a collective sigh of relief. After which it will be back to business as usual without any of the 'rabble' rocking the boat, asking embarrassing questions, or posting things those in power would rather not have us see.

And so far at least, it looks like the bulk of the general public no longer cares.

[superboyac]

Damn 40.  Thanks.

So it's not just me being paranoid about it, glad to know.  I don't usually get to see the big picture so it's really good to hear the perspective of the wiser ones like you explaining the history of these things.  I've felt the restrictions over the years.  I closely follow news about cloud computing, hard drives, mobile technology specifically for this reason.  I want MY computer to be my data headquarters.  I'll use other services and methods as auxiliary tools, but in the end, I want everything with me.

But...I still think there's an opportunity still there.  I don't know what it is, if I ever figure it out I'm coming here with it to make everyone here rich.  There's a way to do this without doing anything illegal or harmful, except for pissing off some big boys who just want to sit back and collect money.

1) We don't need to do anything like Wikileaks.  Software developers shouldn't be a threat to national security.  Sure, you can use developed tools for anything, just like I can bash in someone's head with my "harmless" paperweight.  But that's no reason to ban paperweights.

2) Yes, the market for third-party windows shareware is small.  But I believe with the proper marketing and price points, there are enough people to justify making a living.  Sure, it won't employ thousands of people, but maybe a hundred?  It's all relative...small market, small number of employees making a living.

3) Quality.  I've constantly struggled with developers who insist on ugliness, inconvenience in their programs as if they are "not important" things.  So this mindset needs to be changed if you want to evolve with the industry.  People do care about ease of use and good looking things.  Does that mean you have to sacrifice quality for superficial looks?  No!!  But it does mean that when it comes to making a button for something and you're thought is "Well, it will take me 3 hours to program this...and in those 3 hours I can add 10 additional command line features.  Therefore, I'm going to go with the command line features."  This mindset needs to be changed.  You don't want to restrict the already restricted pool of customers by doing that.

4) Easy to buy, low-stress purchases.  I've talked about these before.

5) Flexible employment structure.  Do we all need to be in one building.  No!  Do we need to go to a lot of meetings?  No.  Do we need salaries with benefits?  It would be nice, but it would be better if the software was bringing in enough money for the programmers to take care of those needs themselves.  Salaries and benefits are characteristics of big companies...but they have a lot of money to pay for those things up front.  The better goal is to make products that pay for all of that.  This is obviously a very difficult area to figure out.

6) We don't need to be the bad guy to anyone!  We're making software that most people don't care about.  If they cared about it, they'd be doing it themselves.  Oracle is not going to make tools to, say, organize things in our system tray.  So they shouldn't care how someone else does it.

It can be done.  How is the question.  I'm going to try to figure it out...

[TaoPhoenix]

So how can people who are good at programming make a living now?  Let's say you thought you could do it by making a couple of cool shareware things, but now you realize you can't make a living doing that.  What else can these developers do?  Because the skillset is there, and it's not obsolete...so somehow they should be able to make a living with it. But what is the way?

-superboyac (January 06, 2012, 01:37 PM)

I believe that the answer is in the size of the app. There's a lot of really low end widgets out there, "many clones, all alike". They're all 1-man shows. Now I absolutely think for deep social reasons we need free widgets, you're just not going to get 29.95 each for them.

Start getting all the 1-man cowboys to begin teaming up and multi-bundle the functions of apps into bigger packages. Hoping I don't sound stupid, it can't be that hard to take what would have been two small apps and smash them together to make one bigger more powerful app. Once that bigger app passes some threshold I believe it might be worth the Freemium fee, say $5 or less.

But you're really using Apps as *ads* for your programming, to be picked up by a corporation. *That's* what I see as the real future. Cool little app won't make anything, but I wasn't kidding that Commissioned Coding is part of that future. Look at my purposely (slightly wacky!) PGN processor app. Dunno how long you super-experts would take but I'd consider hiring some of you for whatever next commission project comes my way. I know there's a Price-Drilldown effect, but I still think I paid about $100 for that because once you get beyond the Snack level Apps explode and I was respectful of debug time.

So then if you're a smart programmer you might get a real corp contract for something. (This senile birdy seems to think there's still bugs in my NANY edition. I am half decent at versioning, and I lost the Final copy. Quick guess says one bug was the Last Name system, I think it messes up compound names like Louis-Charles Mahé de La Bourdonnais and Conel Hugh O'Donel Alexander.)

[40hz]

@superboyac

I agree on all your points.

What I was trying to say was that it has become difficult - and will become even more difficult as time goes on - for indy software developers due to the nature of how the market for technology, and its adoption patterns, usually work from a business perspective.

So what does this mean?

1. Most of the low-hanging fruit has been harvested and the easy wins are gone. Whatever innovation follows will have to be more original and innovative than it has been previously if it hopes to become viable products.

2. The adoption of walled gardens  poses the single most serious threat to software developers who don't wish to enter into the 'indentured servant' arrangement such a distribution approach will inevitably lead to. There's already precedent. Ask most musicians and the authors how well their record labels and publishers have treated them over the years. And furthermore how far these same distributors are willing to go to screw the consumer to protect their sinecures. (SOPA anyone?)

3. The elimination of broadly implemented open standards is the second deadly threat to independent software developers. Proprietary file formats, mandatory DRM and other embedded protectionist 'features,' and restrictive licenses are all pathways that lead directly to the walled gardens previously mentioned.

4. Don't expect government to do the right thing. The closest most governments come to behaving ethically is honoring their commitments to whoever bribed them fair and square.

5. With the advent of an increasingly linked and network dependent planet, the good old "Wild West" and "Free Range" days are, of necessity, coming to an end as far as the Internet is concerned. Law and order has finally arrived. And with it, so has the lawman - who now carries a gun - and is prepared to use it. Expect only as much fairness, honesty, and integrity as can be found in the character of the people who will be enforcing the law.

And we all know who they are.

From this it follows that:

6. Personal computers are powerful tools.

Many in positions of power are beginning to realize just how powerful they can be in the hands of those who know how to use them. And just like firearms, automobiles, and 2-way radios, there's been some motion to begin reining them in. And a desire make them less powerful and far more regulated than they have formally been.

That means imposing arbitrary legal restrictions on their capabilities and requiring some sort of license or registration to use them. Not something that bodes well for the developer who's looking to push the envelope or open up new vistas for the user.

Then there's the issue of privacy as it affects what software gets used and written.

Because tablets and smartphones usually go through a public carrier, they  effectively act as a user registry. And because they do billing, they also establish positive ID on the user - and actively log all user activity on their networks - so there goes any privacy and anonymity on the internet. AT&T recently even went so far as to change it's terms and now claims ownership of its customers browsing activity.

Note: It's interesting that the US government needs a court order to set up a wiretap on a in individual. But telcos, ISPs, banks, search engines, and credit agencies can be requested to furnish the government with whatever information on an individual is asked for without any court or oversight committee becoming involved. And without the formality of a warrant.  Not that it would matter all that much. Most have admitted they've provided the government with such information - and voluntarily, since the Terms of Service most customers unwittingly accept gives these businesses the right to do so.

Brave new world out there.

[iphigenie]

I was going to jump in and add my own opinion on pay/free as I differ from many in a)paying for things many take free on the web (eg: email/webmail), b)really dig "Free Software", and donate c) use freeware, and donate, and d) own almost none of the big AA list software but buy lots of independent software or indie shareware. Was going to explain why and how some of it is also powered by wanting to have the diversity continue

... but in between this thread is all turning very gloomy - in line with many recent posts I have read
http://falkvinge.net...mist-happy-new-year/
http://blog.p2pfound...orow-28c3/2012/01/01

- from the pirate party to computer and hardware pioneers, nobody likes where the world of controlled app stores, crazy invasive security laws and the aggressive copyright industry are going.

I can see that this is where the system that corporate and governement are trying to build, but I can also see that this is not the world that people think we're in - even people that are using tightly constrained devices are sharing, dabbling, trying, creating etc. And they consider this normal, and they will not accept when they are told they cannot do things they take for granted (like creating their own videos, their own writing, or a wonderful playlist, or letting their kids do fan fiction or create games) due to anti piracy rules.

As Switzerland recently stated: anything that turns most of the population into criminals for doing something they feel is normal is ridiculous and must

General purpose computers are everywhere, and they are too important a tool for systems and individuals for us to let them go and to let them be controlled by a few players and the rest of us use locked devices... Can't happen.

And I don't think it will happen - not when kids grow up able to build games for themselves on their PC or xbox. Making music on the computer, able to learn to code, hack things together. And nowadays able to bridge the virtual with the social and the physical in so many ways. We have hobby robotics and 3d printers and so much more of it is open and improving...

The change is not going away. The PC is still going strong, even though it's not cool. There's so much shareware on it, and more and more people find it (although there's so much more to find). People on the mac are buying and releasing shareware in increasing numbers. Indie games are booming. Kickstarter is enabling more and more projects to happen at less risk to the initiator.

Free software has not failed it has changed the world - nowadays you can program in any language you are interested in and release software without having to pay for the compiler. I remember when it wasn't so, and I'm only 40. I can't imagine what the world would have been without GNU and co - but I bet most of you would never have been able to even write software much...

And as for the network and carriers, it is right that they can become bottlenecks. But many don't want to, and the technology is easy enough that we will soon get grids and village carriers and a lot of ways to bypass any ridiculous limits. But I doubt it will get to that, because once the squeeze is started people will react.

Anyway, it is "program or be programmed" and I know where I want to be

[40hz]

.
.
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And as for the network and carriers, it is right that they can become bottlenecks. But many don't want to, and the technology is easy enough that we will soon get grids and village carriers and a lot of ways to bypass any ridiculous limits. But I doubt it will get to that, because once the squeeze is started people will react.

Anyway, it is "program or be programmed" and I know where I want to be

-iphigenie (January 07, 2012, 05:04 AM)

I'd really hope that will become the reality. But I'm not very optimistic.

However, this is an example of some what you can expect in the US when communities try to do just that:

Telco wouldn't install fiber network, sued to prevent city from doing so
By Nate Anderson | Published July 23, 2008 9:20 PM

The small town of Monticello, Minnesota seems an unlikely spot for a battle over city-owned fiber-to-the-home. The town, which is a distant commute to Minneapolis, thought it could better attract residents and business by building its own fiber-optic network. After a couple years of due diligence, the town held a referendum; 74 percent of voters agreed to fund the $25 million scheme. The city sought the needed municipal bonds, but the day before it closed on them, the local telco filed suit to stop the plan. Its claim: taking out bonds to build a fiber network is illegal.

Bridgewater Telephone argues that the city cannot use tax-exempt bonds to "enter into direct competition with incumbent commercial providers of telephone, Internet, and cable television services." The odd thing about the complaint, a copy of which was seen by Ars Technica, is that it makes almost no argument; instead, the company simply quotes a short bit of Minnesota law and essentially says, "See, it's illegal!" without offering an explanation.

Link to full article here.

The article does point out that the legal arguments in the suit are largely groundless. But in many places, the very threat of a lawsuit is enough to make local governments back down in order to avoid long and costly litigation. Even if they think they will eventually win.
 

[Renegade]

Brave new world out there.

-40hz (January 06, 2012, 05:57 PM)

I so hate when you're right sometimes... 

The article does point out that the legal arguments in the suit are largely groundless. But in many places, the very threat of a lawsuit is enough to make local governments back down in order to avoid long and costly litigation. Even if they think they will eventually win.
 

-40hz (January 07, 2012, 08:06 AM)

Again... very much hating that you're right there... 


Talk about a system that seriously need a reboot...

[40hz]

Brave new world out there.

-40hz (January 06, 2012, 05:57 PM)

I so hate when you're right sometimes...  

-Renegade (January 07, 2012, 10:09 AM)

Yeah. Me too...

I'd love to wake up some morning soon and discover everything I've been worried about (and harping on) for the last six or seven years was totally groundless.

Nothing would make me happier than to be conclusively proved the fool here.  

[iphigenie]

I alas agree the US will be scary for a while, but do you think it really will turn out different in the end than things like prohibition, mccarthy, civil rights, suffrage, etc. Turmoil and change happens, we fear the worst, and in the end at least some of the progress sticks. Sometimes some progress it fought for but lost, but the next generation tends to get it back.

They can't quite roll back the clock on transparency or empowerment for long - too many people care in too many different walks of life and countries, and the rest will care when push comes to shove.

I'd love to wake up some morning soon and discover everything I've been worried about (and harping on) for the last six or seven years was totally groundless.

Now that won't happen - but it might happen that you will find out that your harping and other people's harping and all the actions taken in so many places have helped move the plot forward.

You just have to get used to most people not even understanding why you are harping about these things because they just don't get the need or the problem at all - until the very day where it becomes so self evident to them that they don't understand why you are harping about it since they get it too, always have! 

[iphigenie]

Anyway to go back to software and people who buy etc. I

a) only use free web apps when I don't care much, since if I care I find something where I can expect accountability (and that usually means either free software self hosted OR paid for services)
b) use quite a lot of freeware small tools for things I only occasionally use
c) if a freeware tool turns out to be used a lot I will donate (if that is possible). I donate to 1 thing a month at least (usually freeware/donationware, rarely web, although I have donated to a fiction site and a poetry magazine)
d) if I need software for a task, i search for shareware (and here on DC) first
e) and I buy software, I tried to make a list for 2011 and it's perhaps a tad shorter than 2010 but not much (think i missed some small tools incl 1 donation here but it gives an idea) http://iphi.net/inde...ftware-i-bought-2011
f) for games I also often buy indies including pre-ordering games in early development. Think I did that to almost 10 games in 2011, not all of which are yet released. And already 2 in 2012. I can't see why I wouldnt do that for the right kind of software, too!

At the moment I am still looking for many things which I cannot yet find the right solution for - and I will buy

[iphigenie]

Since the original article was about webapps, here's a list of Webapps I pay for:
* task/todo list - in my case hiveminder
* mail/webmail - in my case fastmail
* time/accounts/invoicing - in my case freeagent
* rss reader - at the moment newsblur was blogbridge for a while
* bookmarks/snippets - at the moment diigo but keeping my eyes peeled for something more open
* backup - spideroak
* librarything
I have also paid for livejournal, blipfoto, a mapping site and a few topic content/community sites.

Webapps I would pay for:
* a good calendar that is easy to integrate/link to/access/share - must support setting meetings, capturing what one might want to do, and displaying a public calendar - and sync to phone :S
* a personal address/contact management system that is web and web service aware. Trying Nimble, Gist, Plaxo but none ticks all the right boxes.
* a good aggregator of all-of-me that gathers and saves what might else sink without trace and where I can export and own my content...
* a more clever version of dopplr

My problem with webapps is that so many are a single subject, one trick pony. And whereas I might spend $10-20 on a single trick piece of software that sits on my PC, the efforts one has to make to use a webapp means I am not willing to pay $20+ a year for an app that focuses too narrowly - especially if it doesnt use open formats and standards so I can take my stuff away.

[TaoPhoenix]

I wonder if the key problem here isn't so much that a service is technically "free", but that the free users view the service as making money off of them indirectly.  If facebook and google are making billions from advertising off their "free" services, it's not surprising when users don't feel a strong loyalty or bond with the site (how google continues to reap so much good will from people i don't know -- they certainly don't get it from me).

I think the relationship with users is quite different if they don't feel like they are being used as cattle.

-mouser (January 05, 2012, 11:26 AM)

Well, I remember when there were a lot of e-greeting services that existed pretty much for the purpose of harvesting email addresses to spam, before people figured out what was going on. Or maybe people still use those, I don't know. So it probably looked a lot like spam, if people have that memory. And the service he provided seemed to be an e-greeting service of a sort, that just happened to have Santa in it.

I do sympathize with the general case, though, of the developer being harassed and hounded for suppport by people getting something for nothing though. That's why HFSLIP (a slipstreaming tool similar to nLite except it was a 30 page batch file) doesn't exist anymore, and he was being hounded by free business users.

-daddydave (January 05, 2012, 12:57 PM)

Not to go all One Year Later on this, I think 2012 saw more of these sentiments as the ecosystem "matured". I get that there are very few free lunches, maybe only "free snacks", but the early age of computing saw some really fundamental core work being offered for free so that everyone could just move to higher level projects without reinventing round things that make big boxy vehicles go. Especially punctuated with the Apple case, it looks like everyone is rather suddenly in their "free" userbases and trying to cash out not to go broke and escape with their hide as soon as possible. Sleazy finance types know that a classic trick to make people make bad decisions they can profit from is to shorten their customer's timeframe to operate in. From the famous 1-day-sales, to more generalist "Fiscal Cliffs", when the profession is behaving itself, Accounting boards purposely put "Going Concern" concepts into GAAP so that playing games with accounting cut off periods doesn't hide swindles.

So the problem with "Free" services is the little guys running fun little projects are facing the brutal monetization themes that Google and Facebook are doing. So users feel like they can't trust "free" anymore without trying to look into the fine print.

[wraith808]

Not to go all One Year Later on this

-TaoPhoenix (December 30, 2012, 11:59 AM)

...but you did! 

[TaoPhoenix]

Not to go all One Year Later on this

-TaoPhoenix (December 30, 2012, 11:59 AM)

...but you did! 

-wraith808 (December 30, 2012, 12:17 PM)

'Cause everyone luvs gratuitous MouserBot tells in the almost-unused chat room!

[Tinman57]

I've done both and I basically agree. Too many "customers" of my freeware were demanding and rude. The customers of my payware are courteous, thoughtful and pleasant.

cheers,

-berry (January 05, 2012, 11:08 AM)

  There are way too many people that expect things for free.  Seems to be the norm today, everyone expects something for nothing.  I'm a firm believer in supporting freeware, even when they don't ask for donations.  I have tried to donate to several programmers that flat out refused because they do it as a hobby or are well off.
  When I read some of the post requesting help or suggestions on freeware, these folks get downright nasty and actually makes demands.  For something that's FREE???  Really pisses me off, and I usually slam them and then get slammed by others just like the one I slammed, more freeloaders.
  Then on the flip-side there's the small apps that has only one function, like to clear out cookies, that the programmer wants $15.00 for the app.  Are they that proud of their product or just that self-important?
  Anyhow, I'd rather donate for quality freeware/shareware software like Screenshot Captor than to buy from big software companies that over-bloat their software, ask for too much money and have shitty support.