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Last post Author Topic: Google Reader - Mini-Review  (Read 22921 times)

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2013, 10:56:03 PM »
Hmm. Yeah I knew Google was trimming, but it was stuff like "Google Cooking" and "5 misc features of that". This one feels different somehow, it had a different userbase. I'll have to give this a month to shake out as part of the bigger computing landscape and see what I think later.
Oh, Google has canceled a few more "projects" then GR and "Google Cooking".... here's a few offhand:
Jim

Yeah I mis-used a word or two, I vaguely recall the list being up there, and the Google blog was saying it was some 70 services. I recall that wide spread being why Google was "innovative". Now that they're "cashing in" Google is feeling "boring" in some sense, of not having a cool new story of "what is Google up to?" I do kinda wish some random company just picked up all that stuff and some "magic charisma" or whatever and suddenly became a new cool "playa".


J-Mac

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2013, 12:34:36 AM »
What's really a shame is that some of those "projects" were really excellent web apps that Google purchased and then killed off. So now we don’t have a Google version nor the original version.

Jim

wraith808

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2013, 07:53:27 AM »
What's really a shame is that some of those "projects" were really excellent web apps that Google purchased and then killed off. So now we don’t have a Google version nor the original version.

Actually, in many cases we do.  For example, Writely is now basis for google docs editor.  Some cases they just killed them off, but in many cases they used that technology as the basis for another service (in many cases, just rebranded).

40hz

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2013, 08:43:45 AM »
Some cases they just killed them off

Unfortunately, that's a real problem in a world where independent and small software developers are attempting to coexist with large monopolistic businesses such as Google, Apple, and Microsoft.

As long as so much software remains closed-source and proprietary, there is nothing to prevent the behemoths from buying up and killing off innovation and useful products. Or, where that fails, bullying and/or litigating them out of existence with ridiculous IP infringement claims.

Say what you like about the F/OSS model. The one thing it does better than anything else is protect the enduser from having a product capriciously pulled out from under them. Hardly surprising in that this was Stallman's stated raison d'être for FOSS - to protect the user.

AFAIK there is no other software development/licensing model that can claim the same.

Something to think about. 8)


J-Mac

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2013, 02:16:02 PM »
What's really a shame is that some of those "projects" were really excellent web apps that Google purchased and then killed off. So now we don’t have a Google version nor the original version.

Actually, in many cases we do.  For example, Writely is now basis for google docs editor.  Some cases they just killed them off, but in many cases they used that technology as the basis for another service (in many cases, just rebranded).

That's true, however from what I can tell they have abandoned a lot of what was really good about a lot of them and only picked what they needed. I still would prefer Writely very much over the Docs editor. But, that's what happens with free software I guess.   :(

Thanks!

Jim

wraith808

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2013, 02:55:01 PM »
I guess it comes down to what's been said several times - if you're not paying, then you're the product, not the consumer.

Was Writely making money?  Not enough to support you and what you like over taking a payout.  In essence, you were their tester and their product.

J-Mac

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2013, 03:30:27 PM »
I know all of this. Still, can't I miss it? Or must I take your attitude?

Jim

wraith808

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »
I know all of this. Still, can't I miss it? Or must I take your attitude?

I wasn't trying to give attitude, just have a conversation.  :huh:

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2013, 10:36:40 PM »
Why would anyone want to use Gmail?

:tuxman - talk about obvious.
 flamebait anyone? :-))

OK, I'm game. Why would they?
I have never seen or compiled a list of the functional needs of Gmail users - neither mine nor anyone else's.
If we were to try to formulate a serious response to @tuxman's apparently rhetorical and provocative tongue-in-cheek question, then this could become a useful email requirements-gathering question.

Well, I started using Gmail because I was given an invite by my son, and I thought I'd give it a trial "suck-and-see".
Previously, I was a confirmed email-client user, and thought web-based email was for the birds.
I had originally started with email by POPping my email from my ISP email account, using the FREE Pegasus email client. I later migrated to InfoSelect (a very good PIM) which had an integrated email client and thus enabled me to use emails as data/information in my database - which was a primary and previously unmet requirement of mine.

However, I was initially reluctant to use Gmail - mainly because of a strong dislike of what always seemed to be deliberately crippled and/or locked-in web-based email products (e.g., Yahoo email), and my skepticism regarding email services provided or operated on a basis of demographic market data collection principles. I knew they probably "had designs" on my data and wanted to read through it all. Gmail seemed to me to be potentially like a worse-than-Hotmail product.

Yet, by the end of my trial, Gmail had turned out to be the best for my purposes - you really could use the emails more like data/information - but what won me over over and made me a Google fan as well as a Gmail fan was Google's apparent openness and the progressive additional products/services that Google kept introducing. Some of them were seriously useful, some seemed pretty useless and destined to be consigned to oblivion, but at least the seriously useful bits were great.
For example:
  • Gmail itself - seriously useful, though still a bit clunky; has been continuously improved.
  • the Gmail Labs - mostly seriously useful, but now mostly emasculated and/or shut down.
  • Google Docs/Drive - seriously useful, competitive, and farsighted, though still a bit clunky/constipated; has been continuously improved.
  • Google Reader - seriously useful; has had some improvements, but is now to be shut down.
  • Google Groups - seriously useful, though still a bit clunky; has been continuously improved.
  • Google Picasa - seriously useful Client and Web-app; has had many improvements, but now seems likely to be shut down or forced into the unwanted product g+, thus forcing users with it.

Now though, Google seem to be doing everything they can to try and drive me away from using the Google services I like and trust - and the thing is, I won't be the only user affected this way. If Google continue as they are doing, then they will discover what it means to inadvertently seriously piss off a large part of your user base. People will simply vote with their feet.
For example, for well over a year, I already no longer had much trust in Google - I can't afford to trust them - and rather than use the products/services I like more, I have for about a year had serious misgivings about Google's direction, and have been limiting my use - holding back, waiting to see what the next product/service will be that Google will decide to unilaterally kill off without a by-your-leave.
Quote
"By their fruits ye shall know them."
- actions generally really do speak louder than words.

So, speaking of actions, well, Google have just gone and killed off the Most Excellent Google Reader - which is in my list of seriously useful stuff, above. Only an idiot would wait for another sign, and I am walking away from them. Just as I would not be gullible enough to sign up for a crappy Yahoo email account and all that is implied by that, I shall not remain dependent for any services from an unreliable and untrustworthy supplier over whom I have no control. I am taking my email and other requirements with me.
Google can **** ***.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 10:16:40 AM by IainB, Reason: Minor corrections. »

Tuxman

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2013, 10:49:54 PM »
Outlook.com is a real alternative to Gmail these days. Thanks, Microsoft. Suck it, Google.

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2013, 11:34:27 PM »
Outlook.com is a real alternative to Gmail these days. Thanks, Microsoft. Suck it, Google.
Yes, I reckoned that to be the case too - probably replace Gmail, Google Reader, Picasa and whatever else, right there. In fact that's where I'm walking to.
There's a good list of alternatives to Google Reader (and probably Gmail) being built in another discussion thread on DCF:
Re: Google Reader gone
I'm also looking at Omea, thanks to this suggestion:
Yet another choice: Omea

And OwnCloud looks interesting too:
OwnCloud has finally gotten to a useful state, I'm going to install that this weekend.  :)
Then google can suck it.  :P

Tuxman

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2013, 11:37:29 PM »
ownCloud's RSS reader is not even finished yet.

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2013, 12:01:31 AM »
ownCloud's RSS reader is not even finished yet.
Yes, it's still very much a prototype, I guess, but I thought it looked rather interesting.
I'm trialling Omea PRO at the moment, by the way. Much more than just an RSS feed reader, anyway.

Tuxman

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2013, 12:02:57 AM »
The interface looks cluttered, even worse than NewsBlur.

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2013, 01:25:27 AM »
The interface looks cluttered, even worse than NewsBlur.
Which interface?

wraith808

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2013, 09:42:52 AM »
The interface looks cluttered, even worse than NewsBlur.

I think it's sort of like Onenote, where it has a variety of ways to break things (and the interface) apart, but you don't have to use all of them, i.e. the tabs at the top and sides and tags.  The extra toolbars are also of the tear away type.  So I think it's simpler than you're thinking.

Which interface?

I think he meant Omea Pro.  That's what my reply is based on :)

Tuxman

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »
Yup.

katykaty

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2013, 12:14:35 PM »
I don't really care about losing Google Reader the app.

What I care about is losing Google Reader the cloud service, so when I read an article in Feedly on my PC, it gets marked as read in Beyondpod on my phone.

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2013, 09:00:11 AM »
Well, I shall miss GR - the browser app.
So far, this is my experience with the alternatives:

1. Omea Pro - fantastic potential PIM-type tool; seems to be a dead loss as a feed reader (not really any better than the clunky RSS live feed reader/bookmarks in Firefox); slow as all heck; database gets "stuck" and crashes; does not display feed snippets (you have to be presented with the whole page); a bandwidth and disk space hog. I can see what @Tuxman meant by this:
The interface looks cluttered...

2. OwnCloud - great potential; seems to effectively still be in ß; gave it a miss (no trial).

3. Sage - seems to be a dead loss as a feed reader (not really any better than the clunky RSS live feed reader/bookmarks in Firefox); slow as all heck; does not display feed snippets (you have to be presented with the whole page).

4. Another Firefox RSS add-in - seems to be a dead loss as a feed reader (not really any better than the clunky RSS live feed reader/bookmarks in Firefox); slow as all heck; does not display feed snippets (you have to be presented with the whole page).
If this and Sage are indicative, then they are all much the same, and rubbish as far as I can see.    :(
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 11:11:40 AM by IainB, Reason: Minor correction. »

Tuxman

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2013, 09:17:01 AM »
Have you tried NewsBlur (I wonder if you'd like it) and TT-RSS? Seem to be valuable so far.

40hz

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2013, 12:46:32 PM »
@IainB - what are feed snippits? Is that different than a preview? Because if you hover over the feed article in the sidebar, you get the first few lines of the article - as long as the site provides either a sample or the full article in its feed. Many - but not all - do. And most that do provide the full article.

I also haven't noticed it being any slower than any other desktop based reader I've tried.  But I guess YMMV with this sort of thing.   

Josh

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2013, 12:52:51 PM »
TheOldReader seems to be the best bet as far as a direct-from-Google transition service. Many of the same keyboard shortcuts, a very similar layout, make the transition easy. Newsblur is nice but they have stopped accepting new users and they also have an interface that is quite heavy when used on a work connection that is rather limited. Hence, theoldreader seems to be the best bet.

J-Mac

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »
How do you get your GR feeds into TheOldReader? GR doesn’t have an export facility anymore; instead it sends you to Google Takeout where you can only download your feeds as separate .json files. No OPML export available anymore. Apparently they killed that off back in November 2012.

Jim

Josh

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2013, 01:12:07 PM »
http://theoldreader.com/feeds/import

Note, they have a very long delay right now due to the large influx of users to their product. You might be better just adding them manually. I added all 82 of mine and the process took about 15 minutes.

IainB

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Re: Google Reader - Mini-Review
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2013, 03:48:34 PM »
How do you get your GR feeds into TheOldReader? GR doesn’t have an export facility anymore; instead it sends you to Google Takeout where you can only download your feeds as separate .json files. No OPML export available anymore. Apparently they killed that off back in November 2012...
Google Takeout gives you an "export" .ZIP file for GR that includes the file subscriptions.xml - this file is the only one you need to import all your feed subscriptions to another feed reader.
TheOldReader will accept this file as an import, and put it into a queue for importing to your account - they have to use a queue as they do not have a humungus data centre. There were something like 3,875 predecessors already in the queue when I joined it last night, so that will take a while (days?) to get there.
If you didn't want to wait, then you could do what @Josh did - put them all in manually whilst online to TheOldReader. I didn't have the patience or the need to do that as I am happily using GR whilst it still exists, and can wait for TheOldReader queue to clear. I have to say thatTheOldReader looks like it might just be the trick for me, but we shall see.