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Last post Author Topic: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?  (Read 26121 times)

rgdot

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2012, 04:39:29 PM »
Not sure about locked infrastructure coming to the desktop but on the whole topic of Windows versions...the problem here is new versions too soon and then adding relatively minor stuff for it to be worthy of a new version. I would wait for Windows 9 mainly (only?) because 6 years - between 7 and 9 - will provide me with more of a case to upgrade. Not really because Metro sucks or not.

Curt

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2012, 04:51:04 PM »
By now I have read all the posts in this thread, and I must say, you people have made me feel that Windows 7 will be my last Windows; I really like all my small-company-written programs - but it seems they will die out! No, it can't be so. it mustn't.

Right now I would prefer to stick to Win 7, but on a new machine.


Carol Haynes

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 05:10:14 PM »
It isn't me that described Windows 8 desktop as 'legacy' it was MS! The fact that there is only minimal development on the desktop from Windows 7 says a lot about their intentions for the trad desktop.

I know that some people are calling the classic desktop 'legacy' and I've seen it bandied about... but can you show me somewhere that MS has said it's legacy?  I think that non-Metro says a lot about their intentions towards tablets, but not necessarily towards desktops.  I think if they're guilty of anything, it's feeling things out and not setting their path out there because they don't know what it is.  And I think that's worst case.

Sorry there is so much noise on Google with the use of 'legacy desktop' that I can't find the original article I read when the original consumer preview was released. I remember it was telling at the time that MS used the phrase, since then it has caught on.

Actually one indication of MS's original intentions was that the new version of the free Visual Studio Express was originally intended for developing not-Metro apps only (with no desktop app support) - they have back tracked on that sharply, when the public outcry built up, but I think it says a lot about what they were thinking!

superboyac

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2012, 05:13:48 PM »
By now I have read all the posts in this thread, and I must say, you people have made me feel that Windows 7 will be my last Windows; I really like all my small-company-written programs - but it seems they will die out! No, it can't be so. it mustn't.

Right now I would prefer to stick to Win 7, but on a new machine.
I'm with you, sort of. I'm too clueless where this is all leading to be sure.  Maybe an older wiseman (40!) can clue us in on what the future holds for this.  Here's how I feel: if Windows becomes unfriendly to small developers like mouser and all these other wonderful programmers that make the tools that we use on an almost multi-daily basis, and if MS official ecosystem doesn't offer those kinds of things, then either I stop being a computer hobbyist or turn to Linux and focus my efforts there.  Now, the former is very possible as I start focusing on the things i really want to accomplish, which is independent of computing platforms and software...but uses all those tools.  I don't think I'll be spending 15 years like before eagerly trying every OS, software, freeware, programming language I can get my hands one...I've done that and i've gained a very powerful set of skills that will allow me to get a lot of shit done with fewer resources than many people can imagine.

I don't care anymore is what I'm saying.  I'm going to use the thing that helps me accomplish my own ideas, not vice versa.  I find this the only healthy way to free myself of all of this nonsense.  If a big company doesn't care about the small developers, then I don't really care about them.  I'm not mad at them, i just don't care about them.  i care about the small developers because they care about me.

wraith808

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »
Actually one indication of MS's original intentions was that the new version of the free Visual Studio Express was originally intended for developing not-Metro apps only (with no desktop app support) - they have back tracked on that sharply, when the public outcry built up, but I think it says a lot about what they were thinking!

Not really.  There were a lot of things that VSE was prohibited from doing that they backtracked on.  I think they were trying to pare it down, not really thinking about the backlash.  They do that a lot, unfortunately.  :-\

erikts

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2012, 08:29:14 PM »
Quote
Are you going to wait for Windows 9?

At home : my netbook still run OEM version of Windows XP. I have skip Windows Vista, Windows 7, and now Windows 8. I can't afford to pay the license. So whatever next operating system I use, depends on what's installed on the new computer/device I buy.

At office : I use whatever OS installed on my computer/device. Today I still have to use Windows XP.

Yes, I am learning and trialing other operating system (Linux) and also learning any new OS produced by Microsoft, just in case I have to use it.  :)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2012, 08:31:52 PM »
It isn't me that described Windows 8 desktop as 'legacy' it was MS! The fact that there is only minimal development on the desktop from Windows 7 says a lot about their intentions for the trad desktop.

I know that some people are calling the classic desktop 'legacy' and I've seen it bandied about... but can you show me somewhere that MS has said it's legacy?  I think that non-Metro says a lot about their intentions towards tablets, but not necessarily towards desktops.  I think if they're guilty of anything, it's feeling things out and not setting their path out there because they don't know what it is.  And I think that's worst case.

+1 MS has always gone out of it's way to allow backwards for legacy applications. Take DOS's legacy (CLI Only) interface, cmd.exe isn't exactly hard to find...and I seriously doubt it's going anywhere either.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2012, 03:43:30 AM »
It isn't me that described Windows 8 desktop as 'legacy' it was MS! The fact that there is only minimal development on the desktop from Windows 7 says a lot about their intentions for the trad desktop.

I know that some people are calling the classic desktop 'legacy' and I've seen it bandied about... but can you show me somewhere that MS has said it's legacy?  I think that non-Metro says a lot about their intentions towards tablets, but not necessarily towards desktops.  I think if they're guilty of anything, it's feeling things out and not setting their path out there because they don't know what it is.  And I think that's worst case.

+1 MS has always gone out of it's way to allow backwards for legacy applications. Take DOS's legacy (CLI Only) interface, cmd.exe isn't exactly hard to find...and I seriously doubt it's going anywhere either.

Whilst Windows 7 and 8 include something that look and behaves like DOS it isn't really and I am not convinced you can really expect to effectively run DOS apps on newer machines. Backwards compatibility is being lost - trying running 16 bit windows apps.

tomos

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2012, 04:56:02 AM »
+1 MS has always gone out of it's way to allow backwards for legacy applications. Take DOS's legacy (CLI Only) interface, cmd.exe isn't exactly hard to find...and I seriously doubt it's going anywhere either.

Whilst Windows 7 and 8 include something that look and behaves like DOS it isn't really and I am not convinced you can really expect to effectively run DOS apps on newer machines. Backwards compatibility is being lost - trying running 16 bit windows apps.

still a very good record I'd say.
Tom

Josh

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2012, 06:59:37 AM »
How many 16 bit Windows apps still exist? Why is there a need to maintain backwards compatibility with DOS or 16 bit apps at this point? Even in Windows 3.1, we had the win32s 32-bit abstraction layer which allowed the execution of 32-bit code. I view the removal of 16 bit compatibility as a step forward and I hope to see more of the legacy code removed from Windows. I think this is the one thing that has truly held back Microsoft from being able to move Windows forward in a more proactive manner. At what point do you cut slingload and say "Developers, update your code."? At what point do you tell that user who refuses to upgrade their machine that they will not be able to upgrade to the newest version of Windows because of their choice? At what point is it time to move forward and let those who choose to remain in the past, remain there?

dr_andus

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2012, 07:40:54 AM »
At what point do you cut slingload and say "Developers, update your code."? At what point do you tell that user who refuses to upgrade their machine that they will not be able to upgrade to the newest version of Windows because of their choice? At what point is it time to move forward and let those who choose to remain in the past, remain there?

There is an implicit assumption in your statement that future versions of software will be at least as good or better than past versions. However, some specialist software (and entire categories) developed by independent small developers may not get updated because the original developer or business are no longer around.

So if backward OS compatibility is not made possible somehow, a lot of very original software disappears and gets replaced by nothing in particular. E.g. I'm into outliner and PIM software and many of my favourites (BrainStorm, Outline 4D, Bonsai) no longer seem to be developed and I hear others reminisce about how there is nothing under the sun as good as GrandView or Ecco used to be...

I would go as far as saying that it's about losing bits of human cultural history, except that these software are often much better than any newly developed alternatives, so they are far from just being museum pieces (I use mine daily).

tomos

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2012, 07:48:05 AM »
From the POV of a productive environment:
The desktop is pretty highly evolved. To be honest I see 'the tiles' as fluff really.
Maybe in time there will be software developed that will make it really useful in a productive environment, but I dont know that that's the plan even (?)
Tom

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2012, 08:41:41 AM »
+1 MS has always gone out of it's way to allow backwards for legacy applications. Take DOS's legacy (CLI Only) interface, cmd.exe isn't exactly hard to find...and I seriously doubt it's going anywhere either.

Whilst Windows 7 and 8 include something that look and behaves like DOS it isn't really and I am not convinced you can really expect to effectively run DOS apps on newer machines. Backwards compatibility is being lost - trying running 16 bit windows apps.

still a very good record I'd say.

As would I. Sure one might have to resort to using XP Mode on 64-bit machines ... But the point is that the provision was made readily available to any that need it. Virtualization took the brunt out of the line in the sand that needed to be drawn. I've still got a virtualized DOS v6.22 machine that connects to my domain that has come in handy for testing things more that once.

wraith808

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2012, 08:55:36 AM »
Whilst Windows 7 and 8 include something that look and behaves like DOS it isn't really and I am not convinced you can really expect to effectively run DOS apps on newer machines. Backwards compatibility is being lost - trying running 16 bit windows apps.

Just did on Windows 7, with no problems, to show my wife one of my older projects that I worked on.

f0dder

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2012, 07:00:22 PM »
I'm not a big fan of Win8, and I think there's a lot of things that's wrong with it - but a lot of other people have voiced those concerns, so I won't. I'll keep it to "First they came for the [...], and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a [...]. - and I'm sorry, but no, I don't think that's fatalist thinking. Looking at what Apple is doing and speculating(!) that Microsoft wants to do the same, I do think that's the way we're heading... unless enough people protest. It's not there in current OS X, it's not there in Win8 - and I do realize that "Slippery Slope" is not a given - but things are not heading the right way.

I'll probably do a "Win8 immersion experiment" like I did with Vista, and I'm sure there's a lot to like about Win8 - following Channel9, I know the kernel guys have done really nice things with it. But The World Isn't The Kernel, and marketing people are REALLY evil and I'd like to put some Zyklon-B in their coke...

I'm not sure we'll like win9.
- carpe noctem

barney

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2012, 07:19:17 PM »
I'm not sure we'll like win9.

Or if it will happen  :P?

Guess it will.  After all they survived ME and Vista.  But how long can their luck hold  :-\?!?

myarmor

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2012, 09:08:05 PM »
I'm hoping for something reasonable to eventually replace Windows 7. I don't use a tablet, *pad, touchscreen or
whatever you call it today, so I sure don't need an os built more or less exclusively for that target.
Exclusive as in the differences between W7 and W8. Most of what's new seems to be in the
"built for tablet's, *pads, touchscreens etc" part which apparently leaves much to be desired if you don't
have a touchscreen of some sort.

Remove that "modern ui", "metro" or whatever it's called and you basically have windows 7 excluding the
start menu/panel. Or so it seems. Btw, to me "Modern UI" implies the other one is "legacy".

Btw, where do you even get proper versions of it btw (i.e not OEM or upgrade)?
All I've seen is alot of campaigns for upgrade versions which requires an earlier version of windows to be installed.
In my experience there is nothing which creates more problems, etc than upgrading windows instead of a new install.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 09:14:57 PM by myarmor »

tomos

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2012, 02:46:05 AM »
^ true I can only see OEM copies & upgrades on amazon.de

I always buy OEM versions of windows myself.
Tom

erikts

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2012, 02:55:35 AM »
I read today that product key of pre-installed OEM Windows 8 is embedded in the BIOS.

Quote
So far so good. There is a slight problem though in regards to installing a different version of the operating system on those devices. Say you have bought a laptop running Windows 8, and have an OEM copy of Windows 8 Pro lying around that you want to install on that laptop.

The installer will automatically use the BIOS key during installation giving you no option to enter the retail copy product key during installation. You do end up with an activated copy of the original version of Windows and not the one that you have purchased separately.

app103

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2012, 03:06:09 AM »
Yes, I am waiting for Win9...to decide if I want to continue being a Windows user. If Win9 inches closer to this nightmarish vision, I will probably go Linux and run XP in a VM for the rest of my life.

tomos

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2012, 03:56:06 AM »
I read today that product key of pre-installed OEM Windows 8 is embedded in the BIOS.

:-\ that's a good reason to stick with windows 7
Tom

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2012, 09:15:29 AM »
I'll keep it to "First they came for the [...], and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a [...]. - and I'm sorry, but no, I don't think that's fatalist thinking. Looking at what Apple is doing and speculating(!) that Microsoft wants to do the same, I do think that's the way we're heading... unless enough people protest.

And that's fine. But much like the end of the Myan calendar, we won't know what will actually happen until after it actually happens ... Regardless of how convincingly prophetic ones diatribes may be.

The thing that I'm feed up with, is the simple fact that it seems near impossible to have a discussion about the OS, as specifically and only an O. S. Without it almost instantly denigrating into a discussion about its role as a sociopolitical pawn in a bid for global domination.

There's a time and place for everything...Ya know.

wraith808

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2012, 09:34:54 AM »
I'll keep it to "First they came for the [...], and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a [...]. - and I'm sorry, but no, I don't think that's fatalist thinking. Looking at what Apple is doing and speculating(!) that Microsoft wants to do the same, I do think that's the way we're heading... unless enough people protest.

And that's fine. But much like the end of the Myan calendar, we won't know what will actually happen until after it actually happens ... Regardless of how convincingly prophetic ones diatribes may be.

The thing that I'm feed up with, is the simple fact that it seems near impossible to have a discussion about the OS, as specifically and only an O. S. Without it almost instantly denigrating into a discussion about its role as a sociopolitical pawn in a bid for global domination.

There's a time and place for everything...Ya know.

+100  :Thmbsup:

Carol Haynes

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2012, 10:23:34 AM »
Had my first experience with Windows 8 today where I needed to use a boot CD to try to fix an external hard disk problem.

At least Fujitsu have left the option to use a normal BIOS boot method (disabled by default) otherwise I wouldn't have been able to boot from a WinPE tools disk. As installed by default you cannot start an OEM Windows 8 machine from anything other than the hard disk because all the options are locked out by Secure Boot!

Not sure what will happen when a boot sector virus hits a machine?

Another oddity I hadn't noticed before is that irrespective of where you are when you plug in a camera card it leaps to a full screen tool to import your photos - oddly the full screen (presumably not-Metro) tool then offers to show you the pictures in the folder and leaps into desktop mode. It all felt seriously unnerving.

The two customers I was working with have used computers for a long time (but are 'normal' every day users and over the age of 18) and they are totally befuddled by all the flipping about on their brand new laptop, especially as it seems to happen when they least expect it.

Gwen7

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Re: Are you going to wait for Windows 9?
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2012, 10:33:12 AM »
people who make their living supporting microsoft environments seem to be very much for it now that it's a done deal. as are those people who like anything as long as it's new. my company's IT people are calling it 'job security' for the next two years. the rest of us where i am still want to be convinced. and we still don't want to have to use a touchscreen to get the full benefit. ;-)