Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 07, 2016, 10:34:13 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: Two classes of membership here?  (Read 12952 times)

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2012, 09:45:20 AM »
That does seem to be the main reason why posts get deleted there. If they ramble, go too far OT, or start getting repetitious, they tend to disappear.

That bothers me a little, I can see how the "inflammatory" posts could get modded out, but "rambling, and getting repetitious" starts to get a little close to the slippery slope for my taste. Because I bet rambling repetitious posts in *praise* of something probably stay, and only the critical ones disappear, right?


40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2012, 10:05:39 AM »
@Tao - Couldn't say. Im not an advocate for BDJ. I have bought stuff through them I was generally happy with however. But that was also my characterization of their posting policies - not the official word of BDJ.

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2012, 10:36:48 AM »
@Tao - Couldn't say. Im not an advocate for BDJ. I have bought stuff through them I was generally happy with however. But that was also my characterization of their posting policies - not the official word of BDJ.


Unfortunately, see the five threads of Being Safe and Acta...., I distrust Official Words lately. "They" hire wordsmiths good at spinning "Fridge Logic", when in the end it is your post that is only rambling etc that gets deleted.

Fridge Logic - term comes from TvTropes (Warning, site known to induce lots of clicks!)
http://tvtropes.org/...php/Main.FridgeLogic

Slashdot used to have a legendary policy of "almost no deletetions ever" (The Church of Scientology got them once in an infamous incident.) But just last year they introduced a "Flag comment" button, which was almost ludicrous, since they had purposely spent fifteen years where the First Post (or second) was a known troll post.

So just to delete an entire post "because it rambles" bothers me, if true and proven.  That sounds too  close to those other threads of "rights being removed". Aka "Let's delete it if it's not Astroturf/Groupthink".
Edit: Excuse me while I spend the obligatory 15 minutes getting lost in TvTropes. :)



superboyac

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,070
  • Is your software in my list?
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 11:12:21 AM »
Now that it's been pointed out, I'm glad that I'm in the upper class in at least one area of my life!  So what are we, one-percenters?  Do i get to tax the donationcredits of non-exclusive members?

Contro

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2007
  • *
  • Posts: 2,619
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2012, 11:28:06 AM »
40hz, I kindly ask you if you could you comment on this site's policy / background or refer me to a page detailing these? As one of those posters who's done thousands of posts here, you might be best apt to inform me, and I'm sure many not-yet posters here ask themselves some of my questions, too, so clarification would certainly be welcomed by some people.

- Some people with many posts here often express very strong opinions and get away with it, they ain't banned and not even reprimanded - so it seems they have the "right" to do so

- I jumped in here, some days ago, not because of virtual kvm's, all the less so because of a given offering, but bec of another thread which treated censorship on bits, and MANY people here had been very astonished by this - this was TOO MUCH for me to not speak out, so I related my censorship history with bits, tongue-in-cheek, but the real reason was my having been TOTALLY CENSORED HERE: Some time ago, under another avatar, I had dared to make some posts where I had related bad experiences with software, and instead of triggering other posts on these subjects - perhaps with better experiences than mine -, I got deleted my posts within minutes, AND got my "account" deleted, i.e. no further posting possible, without getting the slightest explanation, which would have perfectly been possible since I had given my real mail account (which is certainly not the case with this current account that will probably be deleted within minutes from my clicking on the "Post" button.

- At the time, I had been totally surprised by that move, since I had thought to write about subjects of not too remote interest, and since I had not in any way been agressive, cynical or something in this order; on the other hand, this current "censorship at bits" thread here had made me laugh out loud, since people who do heavy censorship themselves shouldn't complain about them being censored elsewhere, right?

- You speak about "mouser" - who is "mouser", did he ever gave his name, or is anonymity important to him? I suppose he's the creator of this forum, right? Allow for another question: Why is he considered "God" or similar, here? Has he done exceptional things? Get me right, please, I'm not suggesting he didn't, I'm just in total absence of knowledge, so I'm asking.

- Then, is he funding this forum? It seems that for the financing of the servers, this forum relies upon public funding, by donations, so there might not be any (more) funding by "mouser", or is there? So here again, I haven't been successful in getting why "mouser" is considered "above it all", instead of this forum being sort of a democratic one.

- When I see the kind of speak of the "very frequent posters" here, addressing newcomers or "infrequent posters", I see sort of condescension and patronizing and which does NOT seem to be related to the respective content of the respective postings of either side, but simply to a "rule" or something that the former would have the "better rights" as the latter ones - of course, I don't discover this phenomenon in any thread and any exchange of posts, but it appears rather often and much more frequently than being coincidental or unintentionally.

- So what's going on here? What is the reason behind "unworthy" contributors here being treated like schoolboys were fifty years ago in civilised countries, especially in view of the fact that, as said, "regular" posters, the "masters" here, are allowed LOTS of "strong opinioning", so there does NOT seem to be a general rule of utmost complacency and attenuation, etc. that'd apply to everyone, far from that?

- What is the general idea behind this allowing to freely discuss things for a minority here when for everybody else, it's permanent self-censorship in order to avoid reprimands or even kick-out?

- This being a discussion forum with lots of participation, it seems to me that the questions I ask here are of some relevance, since for many a potential poster to such a forum, it's a question of adhering to such rules that need some explanation, or to shut up to begin with. There are many countries in this world where people ain't equal, and much worse, but for a forum where you'd instinctively presume equality among the participants, this blatant non-equality in the treatment different classes of participants are granting each other, mutually, seems astonishing and worthwile a little more info about the underlying reasons for all this than you can get by simple observation, hence my request to get some background to all this.

- Is there a chance go get this, or will the censor act first?


First in my native language . Primero en mi lenguaje nativo.
Then automatic translation and I will revise.
Luego ya traduciré al inglés para no equivocarme.


Donationcoder, en su género de software de desarrollo, creatividad y diseño es uno de los pocos foros que ofrece ayuda en "code snack" o códigos ejemplo sencillos.

Hay otros foros por ahí soporíferos, insoportables, que ni ayudan y que además descalifican al que sabe menos. Al que no es programador, al que simplemente arrrastra sus traumas y pide ayuda. En donation coder se ayuda incluso si no tienes dinero. Incluso en momentos tan difíciles para los programadores. Y en Donation Coder, esto es una opinión particular, están los mejores programadores del mundo.

A veces me ha dado vergüenza ajena recibir ayuda en un foro donde no coopero económicamente, porque a lo largo de los años he recibido mucha ayuda.

Esta mañana tuve cita con mi psicólogo. Con mi psicólogo sí. Soy humano. Pido ayuda. Y le comentaba que quizá muy pronto pueda superar mis traumas con windows xp, y pasar a focalizar otros temas, otras cosas. si lo supero será en buena parte por foros como DonationCoder y su gente.

Yo no puedo decir otra cosa que me he sentido bien tratado aquí.

Y mira que visito foros. También tengo que decir que no es el único foro que me ha tratado bien. Y esto es consecuencia de que internet está poblado de buena gente.

En español soy asiduo de fermul.com. Con fernando muñoz me llevo muy bien y a veces se me saltan las lágrimas cuando me encuentro con la gente.

DonationCoder no es diferente en este aspecto. Creo que tienen mucha paciencia conmigo. Con mis boberías. Con mis consultas recursivas e insistentes de persona con dudas.

Y la verdad es que lo agradezco.

Es curioso que sea en foros como Donation Coder donde surgen este tipo de temas de reconocimiento, de utilidad, de finalidad manifiesta.

Donation Coder no se oculta precisamente en este sentido. La via de la donación está abierta. Yo que soy enemigo de los bancos, enemigo de las fórmulas corporativas de gran poder, enemigo del Bill Patas aunque tenga que usar su sistema operativo, reconozco que las cosas en nuestro mundo cuestan dinero.

Soy de los que se aprovechan de un trabajo como el que hace Mouser. Chapó por Mouser. Soy de los que no pago ni aporto un duro en Donation Coder.
No soy un miembro de apoyo, no colaboro en nada en concreto, y sin embargo no he notado un trato diferencial importante.

Nadie me ha negado su ayuda. Y son muchos ya en donation coder los que me la han prestado.

Nadie me ha escachado bajo su pie o tratado preferentemente mal.

Yo la verdad, me siento bien en donation coder.

*****************

Please. Translate the above declarations with your favourite translator.
The web , the entire internet is plenty of automation. but this time I prefer talk with my heart.

 :-*

superboyac

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,070
  • Is your software in my list?
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2012, 12:27:13 PM »
Very nice, contro.

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,327
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2012, 01:47:58 PM »
@Contro,
nice to get your perspective in your native language ;)
Tom

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,091
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2012, 03:17:26 PM »
@Contro, nice reading ♥
I hope your psychologist can help you with your XP trauma. hehe ("LOL").



cranioscopical

  • Friend of the Site
  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,367
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2012, 07:08:55 PM »
Two classes? Of course!

There is me… and everybody else.

cmpm

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,025
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2012, 12:29:35 AM »
from "about" DonationCoder.com

Quote
The programmers at DonationCoder.com are dedicated to providing professional quality software and professional quality support. We take seriously the need to solicit donations, and the need to distribute donations to the people who contribute to the website, whether in the form of software, support, or editorial content.

I see this working in it's dynamics constantly here.
We all invest a bit of ourselves, with our thoughts, input, or finances,
each as important as the other, separate or combined.
The donations here are not limited, and are treated with respect.
As your donation is, clean.

TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,550
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 11:16:09 AM »
I don't trust the OP's motive to be clean, he is just trying a new angle to continue his fight against Bartels Media.

By the way, clean, your post on Bits du Jour, the one that was 'censored', it was most likely deleted because it was way too long.

I'm starting to second this. I checked his last posts; they are all sorta on a theme. It's not clear why he thinks DC is censoring him too. I have a minor peeve when someone posts a "reactionary" post and then never replies again to the some thirty responses he gets.

mouser

  • First Author
  • Administrator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,408
    • View Profile
    • Mouser's Software Zone on DonationCoder.com
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2012, 11:19:41 AM »
Just fyi -- haven't received any message or follow up from clean.

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2012, 12:16:56 PM »
@Mouser - That was probably to be expected.

But at least you and everybody else here did what we could to say we disagreed with his/her impression and give our reasons why. We also repeatedly asked that clean remain a member with no hard feelings on anybody's part.

"So it goes."

It's now out of our hands. Next (if any) move belongs to clean.

Onward! :Thmbsup:

cranioscopical

  • Friend of the Site
  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,367
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2012, 04:31:22 PM »
Just fyi -- haven't received any message or follow up from clean.
Watch this space for word from Squeaky!

Target

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,605
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2012, 04:37:45 PM »
Watch this space for word from Squeaky!

isn't that you?

Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,099
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2012, 04:45:10 PM »
Nope, cranioscopical only shines when spitting...

mwb1100

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 1,522
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2012, 05:12:21 PM »
It's not clear why he thinks DC is censoring him too.

It was because he was asked to 'drop it' when posting another response to Bartels.  I don't have a clue who clean is (apparently some other DCer's do) but maybe he isn't familiar with how tired the rest of us are with the little Bartels flame wars that flare up at slightest provocation.

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2012, 06:19:51 PM »
^I sent a PM explaining that just in case.

But I somehow suspect clean wasn't completely unaware of this prior to posting. ;)

PhilB66

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 1,522
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2012, 06:39:18 PM »
^I sent a PM explaining that just in case.

Hmmm, waste of time, maybe?

I had given my real mail account (which is certainly not the case with this current account that will probably be deleted within minutes from my clicking on the "Post" button.
(Emphasis mine)

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2012, 06:44:25 PM »
Hmmm, waste of time, maybe?

Never! ;D `

(see my previous post)

clean

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2012
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2012, 11:17:25 AM »
Quote from: Renegade on November 15, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
"So far, I'm quite happy with Synergy."
Already considered to donate for their work?

Spot on, Bartels, so no wonder they immediately closed the thread.

And there's so much dumbness here, it's a real pity that any time something deliberately illogical but oh so funny comes about (from Bartels here, not Gunnar but Michael, goo school, no irony, I appreciate a lot!), they invariably come with their menaces of throwing out. But I think there's a deeper reason: 90 p.c. (ok, let's make it 85, and I've always savoured many of 40hz' posts I must say, among some others') of what you can read here is a little bit dumb, so there might be a bit of envy playing a role.

Anyway, this total mix-up of "donations" for the functioning of a forum - outrageous: some even ask you to "donate" for your posts / account being deleted! -, "donations" for some obscure sw that obviously doesn't find its way into a real market - not worth even let's say 8 bucks apiece? -, and then, even asking for "donations" for unwanted sw, in order to twice "donate" for the right of express yourself in a forum, is not only chaotic and de-focused, but profoundly unhealthy as a business scheme. What do they call it, "voodoo marketing". "Original" but not in a pleasant way.

Oh my, mankind without lotsa denial, that seems to be unimaginable, even among people proud of their logic. (Religious belief is a similar flaw in many otherwise intelligent people, then - oops, no politics here!)

So they don't but have to close down this thread, too.

joiwind

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2009
  • *
  • Posts: 484
  • carpe momentum
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2012, 12:09:30 PM »
;D ;D ;D
.: I use K-Meleon - the browser you can control - but I love Pale Moon too :.

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2012, 12:10:13 PM »
@clean - glad you enjoyed some of my posts (assuming you were being sincere) but you've sort of lost me with what you're saying in the above. And possibly you've missed out on some of what's being said.

Here's how I see what's going down here...

You irked more than a few people by implying that there were different levels of membership when there are not. I'm not sure where you got that impression, but people responded because that runs counter the experience of virtually everybody (I say virtually because not every member registered on this site responded) at DoCo.

Regarding BartlesMedia, there seems to be some ongoing feud running on the web between people on either side of whatever issues are involved. Some of them have surfaced in DoCo forums at various times. We've all heard from both parties and our conclusion is that for whatever reason it's going on, DoCo's forum is not an appropriate venue for slugging it out in. Many of us here are frankly quite tired of hearing it. Especially since it occasionally reemerges despite repeated requests it be taken elsewhere. So if you aren't one of the parties involved in that apparently ongoing spat, I'm sorry that you might have felt jumped on about some your comments. Suffice to say it's not a good topic for discussion here. And whenever it comes up most of us start gritting our teeth waiting for that nonsense to start up once again.

Please understand we're not an advocacy group or a consumer affairs council - or really much of anything else beyond being a group of friends having a conversation. And much like any group of friends, there's just some topics we don't feel like constantly revisiting. And there's only so many times you can politely say "that's not my problem" or "I really don't want to get involved with this" before the tone of voice starts getting a little sharper. So if you stepped into that unawares try not to take it as a direct rebuke. In this case, people are reacting far more to the topic than they are to you. It happens. And many of us have inadvertently pushed hot buttons around here now and then.

But that's always a risk when you come in cold to any established community. Until you've been around long enough to get the lay of the land there's always the chance you'll innocently bump into something that sometimes sets people off or dredges up a bad memory. If it is innocent, just make note of it and move past it. Especially here, where memories for annoyances tend to be very short if the annoyance was a one-time thing.

Beyond this, there really isn't much else I can say. Hope this helps clarify a few things. And if I failed - well...it wouldn't be the first time. At least I tried.
 :)

And btw - welcome back! I was afraid we might not see you again. And that would have been a real shame. :)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 12:20:03 PM by 40hz »

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,406
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2012, 12:33:54 PM »
And... I'm not sure it was mouser that closed the thread.  That seems... unlike him.  And I don't really see a reason to close it, as it did serve a use.  Sometimes people get fed up and overzealous.  I think this was a case of that...

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: Two classes of membership here?
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2012, 12:46:42 PM »
^Agree w/wraith on that one. Wouldn't be surprised to see the lock removed before long.