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Last post Author Topic: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible  (Read 16287 times)

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2012, 09:25:27 AM »
Curious thought - what happens if this scenario happens when Windows 9 is released? Is MS really going to allow OEMs to restrict future MS upgrades?

Funny. That crossed my mind too. I think they might float some trial balloons to see if they can. But I don't think it will fly. Probably be a Pyhrric victory at best if they actually can get away with it.

(BTW - somebody tell Ballmer & Co. they have to get busy! Better toggle 'troll mode' and start suing the living daylights out of kernal.org, the FSF and the Linux Foundation before too many people figure out the obvious. Hey Steve? Don't wait a second longer. Do it today.)

SBLinux.jpgStrategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 10:55:14 AM by 40hz »

Darwin

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2012, 08:19:54 AM »
Don't know what people are in such a lather about.

The issue is that it brings nothing new to the table. It's 99.9% change merely for the sake of change. That, and to start the process of slowly moving Microsoft's customer base over to a company app store/closed ecosystem like Apple has.

If that doesn't put you in a lather, you're exactly the sort of customer Microsoft is looking for - and no harm done. For the rest of us, it's a seriously BFD - and we want no part of it as it currently stands.
 ;D



OK point taken. I've looked in the Windows Store but haven't given it much thought. My gut understanding is that this is more an issue with Windows RT and Windows Phone and not Windows Pro?

Agree that Windows 8 doesn't really bring anything to the table (hence my no need to upgrade comment) but don't feel that there is a compelling reason to downgrade when buying a new computer with 8 preinstalled. Seriously, on the same equipment, 8 boots much more quickly than 7 did... I was pleased when after extensive tinkering my 4 year old Gateway laptop booted Windows 7 in under 3 minutes. It boots Windows 8 in about 30 seconds and is MUCH peppier overall, so it follows that from a performance perspective downgrading new hardware to 7 would be a step backward (though granted, on newer equipment the difference migth be measureable only in tenths of a second).
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

dr_andus

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2012, 08:46:37 AM »
Have you turned off UAC just to see if they work?  Perhaps it's that interaction that's causing the problem.  Not sure... but this just interests me, and I don't have anything like it to test.

I have now turned UAC off. It resulted in some improvement for some software, and not for others. Outline 4D now recognises my text expander app, so it seems some kind of a barrier was removed. However, Paintshop Pro 8 still crashes, when I try to crop an image. I will try the emulator route next.

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2012, 11:38:04 AM »
OK point taken.

@D - thanks for taking my comment in the spirit it was intended. :)

BTW - regarding performance, Win 8 is not that bad. As an OS it's middling decent. But my problem with Win 8 isn't with it as an OS. My problem is that it's no longer just that. It's now the linchpin in a larger overall strategy to move the population away from open standards and general purpose computers to a completely closed data appliance. It's a giant step backwards to 1960 when Sperry-Rand and IBM controlled just about everything related to computing.

To me it's not so much the greed and power trip Microsoft is on that I object to. It's the abandonment of an ideal. This move represents a betrayal of all the work everybody Microsoft ever rode in on the coattails of - and who made possible most of what power and wealth Microsoft enjoys today. It's a betrayal of the social contract. To me it feels almost like the ending of Orwell's book Animal Farm where the animals can no longer tell the difference between their old oppressors and their new masters.

Quote
Like all of Napoleon's speeches, it was short and to the point. He too, he said, was happy that the period of misunderstanding was at an end. For a long time there had been rumours-circulated, he had reason to think, by some malignant enemy-that there was something subversive and even revolutionary in the outlook of himself and his colleagues. They had been credited with attempting to stir up rebellion among the animals on neighbouring farms. Nothing could be further from the truth! Their sole wish, now and in the past, was to live at peace and in normal business relations with their neighbours.
.
.
.
There was the same hearty cheering as before, and the mugs were emptied to the dregs. But as the animals outside gazed at the scene, it seemed to them that some strange thing was happening. What was it that had altered in the faces of the pigs? Clover's old dim eyes flitted from one face to another. Some of them had five chins, some had four, some had three. But what was it that seemed to be melting and changing? Then, the applause having come to an end, the company took up their cards and continued the game that had been interrupted, and the animals crept silently away.

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.




But maybe that's just me. :huh:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:09:06 PM by 40hz »

BCHOWDHURY

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2012, 11:46:15 PM »
If you don't mind missing the start menu, Windows 8 is way better than Windows 7. You have to get used to desktop full of icons. No one is missing Windows 7.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2012, 03:09:03 AM »
Agree that Windows 8 doesn't really bring anything to the table (hence my no need to upgrade comment) but don't feel that there is a compelling reason to downgrade when buying a new computer with 8 preinstalled. Seriously, on the same equipment, 8 boots much more quickly than 7 did... I was pleased when after extensive tinkering my 4 year old Gateway laptop booted Windows 7 in under 3 minutes. It boots Windows 8 in about 30 seconds and is MUCH peppier overall, so it follows that from a performance perspective downgrading new hardware to 7 would be a step backward (though granted, on newer equipment the difference migth be measureable only in tenths of a second).

Trouble is that all operating systems slow with time. I remember how fast Win 7 was at booting when I first installed it - now it takes ages.

Give Windows 8 a year and I bet it won't be booting in 30 seconds.

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2012, 08:18:13 AM »
Trouble is that all operating systems slow with time.

FWIW I haven't noticed that to be the general case with most nix-based operating systems. They either start off slow and stay slow (usually due to improper initial configuration or poor driver support) or they remain reasonably peppy. YMMV
 ;)

Darwin

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2012, 08:03:48 PM »
Just to note, my installation started out with Vista 64-bit, I did an inplace upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit and then an inplace upgrade to Windows 8 64-bit. So, while I agree that OS installs slow down over time due to crud accumulation, my system has over 150 programs installed, and my Windows 8 install inherited that. Now, I do expect it to slow over time, but not too drastically as my software selection is fairly stable and I've weaned myself off the obsessive upgrade path.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

tomos

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2012, 02:56:31 PM »
I'm very impressed by how fast win 8 can boot - and close down. Admittedly I have very little software installed and very little starting with windows, but this is way faster than a clean win7 install - I remember being impressed by that being around the 30 second mark.
I just booted Win8 in well under 10 seconds, and that involved me clicking on the login page (dont currently have a password).
Tom

dr_andus

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2013, 08:55:21 AM »
I could see their prices drop after (or even before) Christmas, but then who knows, if Win8 turns out to be a disaster, could scarcity start driving up prices of Win7 machines fairly soon?

Well, the price for Win7 Home Premium retail package did not drop, at least in the UK. On Amazon UK back in November the price was around GBP118-ish, today it's GBP139. So the price seems to be climbing upwards quite significantly. Draw your own conclusions  ;)

I wish I bought it then...

Carol Haynes

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2013, 09:21:54 AM »
I have already noticed Win 8 slowing down on my laptop. Doesn't seem much faster than Windows 7 to a working desktop.

Don't have much installed and all my data is on a separate partition.

Granted it is quick to the tiled interface and that works as soon as it has loaded but I have used Start8 to boot directly to the desktop and I don't think I am noticing any huge imporvement - especially as it is a clean install which is only about 1 month old.

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2013, 10:06:03 AM »
I have already noticed Win 8 slowing down on my laptop. Doesn't seem much faster than Windows 7 to a working desktop.

Don't have much installed and all my data is on a separate partition.

Granted it is quick to the tiled interface and that works as soon as it has loaded but I have used Start8 to boot directly to the desktop and I don't think I am noticing any huge imporvement - especially as it is a clean install which is only about 1 month old.

Interesting. I noticed that too but thought I might be imagining things...

If anything, once Office and some other (all Microsoft) software got loaded following a fresh install of Win8 it seemed to become slightly sluggish on the the Core-2 Duo (T7250/2Ghz/800mhz w/4Gb RAM) laptop I've currently got it on. After a few MS winupdates it seemed to feel even more sluggish. Which is funny because Linux Mint with Cinnamon is very peppy running on the same box.

I'll be putting Win8 on an i3/8Gb RAM laptop shortly for another extended tryout. Or will as soon as the new drive (WD Scorpio Black 750Gb) I ordered arrives. Hopefully it will feel snappier with that combo and the faster disk.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2013, 10:13:56 AM »
Yep Core 2 Duo with 4Gb RAM here too.

Josh

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2013, 10:21:53 AM »
Running an i3/6GB of RAM and I have not noticed this to be the issue. This laptop currently has a full load of office, kaspersky A/V 2013, VS 2010 and several other tools. I am to a desktop in about 12 seconds after boot and login with approximately 14 start-up processes.

f0dder

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2013, 01:05:44 PM »
Haven't noticed slowdown either - only thing that's become slower is the crap enterprise Adobe software I work with daily, but a from-scratch-nuke-data reinstall helped.

Also, NTFS does fragment a bit faster than other modern filesystems, defragmenting (with a proper tool) can definitely help in some situations.
- carpe noctem

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2013, 05:58:29 PM »
Running an i3/6GB of RAM and I have not noticed this to be the issue. This laptop currently has a full load of office, kaspersky A/V 2013, VS 2010 and several other tools. I am to a desktop in about 12 seconds after boot and login with approximately 14 start-up processes.

The startup/shutdown times aren't that big a deal to me. But I don't reboot a lot.

I'm more concerned with data access speeds and programs opening and closing since I'm in and out of things constantly with what I do. I should probably shrink my tookit down and just leave everything open. Different OS - different workflow, right?
 :)

skwire

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2013, 06:15:17 PM »
I'm more concerned with data access speeds and programs opening and closing since I'm in and out of things constantly with what I do.

One acronym: SSD.  With backups, of course.

Darwin

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2013, 09:08:25 PM »
Hi all - I noticed the same thing: Win8 started out considerably faster than Win7 on the same notebook hardware (T9300 Core 2 Duo at 2.5Ghz, 4Gb RAM, and a 7200 rpm 320GB HD) and then over time it slowed down, not to former Win7 levels, but close. I cloned the harddrive to a 240GB SSD and it's been blazing fast in every respect since. Now, I do expect this setup to slow down over time, but not to the levels I saw pre-SSD...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2013, 09:44:34 PM »
Okay, sounding like a broken record, this is a cousin thread to the "who is on XP" one. Staying with Win 7 should be CAKE. It's only one OS back and none of that "discontinuing" nonsense should apply. No dev anywhere should be dropping support for Win 7!

J-Mac

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2013, 09:35:24 AM »
Microsoft Vista made me really resent Microsoft in a way I never had before, purely because of their treatment of Vista Ultimate! Vista Ultimate, while costing a couple hundred more than the other editions, gave me nothing more than the Business or Pro versions, except for the promise of what were supposed to be some fantastic "Windows Vista Ultimate Extras" - which were never released! Oh, wait a minute: they actually DID release some extra language packs and a few "Ultimate Only" wallpapers. That was it. The rest of the Ultimate Extras were dropped and they quietly ended the Vista Ultimate life in early 2012. Quickest End-of-Life in Microsoft history.

Never again for me.

Jim

Carol Haynes

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2013, 11:35:03 AM »
Microsoft Vista made me really resent Microsoft in a way I never had before, purely because of their treatment of Vista Ultimate! Vista Ultimate, while costing a couple hundred more than the other editions, gave me nothing more than the Business or Pro versions, except for the promise of what were supposed to be some fantastic "Windows Vista Ultimate Extras" - which were never released! Oh, wait a minute: they actually DID release some extra language packs and a few "Ultimate Only" wallpapers. That was it. The rest of the Ultimate Extras were dropped and they quietly ended the Vista Ultimate life in early 2012. Quickest End-of-Life in Microsoft history.

The joke is they didn't learn and still released Windows 7 ultimate - which didn't even get the wallpapers!

40hz

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2013, 12:35:23 PM »
I'm more concerned with data access speeds and programs opening and closing since I'm in and out of things constantly with what I do.

One acronym: SSD.  With backups, of course.

Yeah...been looking at those. (Installed a few for clients already. The reliability experiences were definitely mixed.) I'm going to give SSD another 6 to 12 months to mature further before I'll seriously consider it for my own use. Right now the benefits don't outweigh the risks enough for me. YMMV.
 :)

f0dder

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2013, 02:10:00 PM »
40hz: as someone who has had two SSDs (including an enterprise Intel one) go belly-up, I'd still say they're totally worth it. You do need a very good backup scheme, but you ought to have that anyway, so hey :)
- carpe noctem

Josh

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »
Running an i3/6GB of RAM and I have not noticed this to be the issue. This laptop currently has a full load of office, kaspersky A/V 2013, VS 2010 and several other tools. I am to a desktop in about 12 seconds after boot and login with approximately 14 start-up processes.

The startup/shutdown times aren't that big a deal to me. But I don't reboot a lot.

I'm more concerned with data access speeds and programs opening and closing since I'm in and out of things constantly with what I do. I should probably shrink my tookit down and just leave everything open. Different OS - different workflow, right?
 :)


Definitely so. I do not see any slowdowns, minus a small one when I installed Kaspersky, when opening files or programs. Everything is still fairly snappy. Office 2013 programs open in about 1-3 seconds, depending on the size of the file being opened (I have some VERY large powerpoint slideshows).

Darwin

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Re: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2013, 08:32:59 AM »
Just upgraded my father's netbook (Win7 Pro 64-bit with 4GB RAM and and a low energy Intel single core processor - not an Atom, can't recall the name U something?) and the difference is night and day. Office 2010 programs open immediately and boot times are down to around 30 seconds. Impressive for a 3+ year old netbook.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin