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Last post Author Topic: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door  (Read 11011 times)

Josh

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win8install2_med.png

Quote
Before you read another word of this review, I need you to do something very important. Take all of your preconceived notions about what Windows is today and what you are familiar with, and put them aside. It’s time to reinvent the desktop OS and Microsoft is leading the charge.

At the end of this review, you will see three scores. One score is for using Windows 8 with a keyboard and mouse, one is for using Windows 8 as a touch-based platform and the final is a combined score. The reasoning for this is that each input method offers two distinct experiences and to combine them into a single score would not accurately reflect the true value of the product; the summary score is made up of the two independent scores.

Source

Like Neowin says, take Windows 8 for what it is. Do not try and compare it to the past versions of Windows. While some will oppose this change, those that I know who run Windows 8 are actually enjoying it once getting past the new "Metro Screen".

On a side note, I have been running Windows 8 for over a month and love every aspect of it. Once I get a touch screen laptop (next month or two), I can see a lot of this new functionality being VERY useful.

eleman

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 08:52:44 AM »
Quote
Before you read another word of this review, I need you to do something very important. Take all of your preconceived notions about what Windows is today and what you are familiar with, and put them aside. It’s time to reinvent the desktop OS and Microsoft is leading the charge.

Source

Why? I like my notions better than a corporate product.

40hz

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 08:59:22 AM »
Quote
Before you read another word of this review, I need you to do something very important. Take all of your preconceived notions about what Windows is today and what you are familiar with, and put them aside. It’s time to reinvent the desktop OS and Microsoft is leading the charge.

Source

Why? I like my notions better than a corporate product.

Agree. :Thmbsup:  Once again somebody is presenting their conclusion as a premise.

<Buzzer sounds!> Faulty logic. :-\
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:11:16 AM by 40hz »

40hz

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 09:05:15 AM »
While some will oppose this change, those that I know who run Windows 8 are actually enjoying it once getting past the new "Metro Screen".

Really? :huh:

I have yet to meet any client of mine (who has given Win8 a respectable tryout) that felt it brought anything compelling to their work environment.

Quite the contrary, their consensus seemed to be it was "ok" - but only if viewed as a consumer/home product. "Different just to be different" and "Not worth the hassles or the upgrade" were the two most common assessments I heard. And these are techno-literate power users mostly.

 :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:10:54 AM by 40hz »

wraith808

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 09:16:57 AM »
Why? I like my notions better than a corporate product.

It seems that what the reviewer is saying (after reading the review) is that if you put your preconceived notions aside and give it a chance, you'll see that it's not what everyone thinks.  Not sure about the conclusions he draws, but the statement is quite valid.

eleman

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 09:24:10 AM »
Why? I like my notions better than a corporate product.

It seems that what the reviewer is saying (after reading the review) is that if you put your preconceived notions aside and give it a chance, you'll see that it's not what everyone thinks.  Not sure about the conclusions he draws, but the statement is quite valid.

Everyone's word against his (or her).
The PR machines of corporations really bore me. Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I lived in a crowded city one day too much, but I can't bring myself to read reviews of how microsoft's latest os rules, or how apple's latest gadget is coolest, or how amd's latest chip will really turn the tide. They almost never live up to the hype, so I just end up wasting my time reading and thinking about them.

I'm happy with my eleven year old os, 4 year old cpu, and 4 year old nokia dumb phone. And my notions :)

superboyac

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 09:28:35 AM »
I still haven't really seen a reason, other than price or business practices, to dislike Windows 8.  I still feel the whole traditional desktop environment vs. tiles freakout is not that big of a deal.  if the tiles suck so bad, somebody will create a third-party freeware that fixes it fine.  I just can't tell what actual features people are really hating, and why?  I get the criticism of the business practices, and changing the interface drastically...but functionally I am having a hard time seeing what the problem is.

Some of the traditional UI stuff has changed, there are sliders instead of checkboxes and the settings look different.  But these changes had to be made for an OS to be both touch and mouse/keyboard friendly.  I guess they could have only made a touch OS and left the desktop OS alone, that might have been better.

I see ^^^ that one of the complaints is that it's not that good enough to warrant a change from a business rollout point of view.  That's a good point.  I agree with them in that it's probably not worth the trouble to change.  However, I will add that regular Windows is woefully touch unfriendly, so I'm personally looking forward to tiles, which I think is a pretty good idea for a touch interface.  Also, I've used Android and was not terribly impressed by anything that it did, nor any of the devices running it, including the flagship Samsungs.  I've tried iOS on the ipad and iphone and while the touch response is excellent, it's apple so it can't really do anything.  There's no linux offering for touch yet.  So in the end, if you are using windows to do anything productive, you don't have that many options for touch interfaces.  It's basically android, ios, windows 8.  And of the three, I'm looking forward to windows 8.

But again, this is purely a functional argument.  I'm not talking about tricks to get people to upgrade, or forcing people to use the cloud office360, or compatibility with business applications, etc.  Just as a touch-friendly OS, it seems to be a nice offering.

40hz

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 09:30:03 AM »
@eleman - if you're going to continue clouding up this thread with logic and common sense it's going to end up being a very short discussion. ;D

eleman

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 09:31:34 AM »
@eleman - if you're going to continue clouding up this thread with logic and common sense it's going to end up being a very short discussion. ;D
hahaha :)

wraith808

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 09:42:45 AM »
If you're happy with what you have, that's cool and a valid point.  It took me a while to get any machines upgraded to windows 7 because XP works very well for me.  But in terms of people actually taking a look at windows 8, I think that's who the article is aimed at, not those who aren't going to (or willing to) upgrade.  And there's a massive amount of FUD that has preceded this release (similar to Vista).  I think that there are a lot of missteps that are obvious to me (a hybrid OS just doesn't seem like a good idea, and their marketing hasn't helped), but I don't think that this review is truthfully a PR ploy after reading it.  But that's just my opinion, and as to the OS itself, I reserve judgement until after I've tried it.

superboyac

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 09:57:33 AM »
But that's just my opinion, and as to the OS itself, I reserve judgement until after I've tried it.
Same here...I'll be getting the lumia 920 soon, so I'll have more to say later.  I have high hopes...but then again, I always do.   :(

rgdot

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 10:23:25 AM »
I have had the chance to read industry type publications like Information Week (as opposed to consumer stuff like PC World) and I have kept some issues somewhere in a pile in my dusty closet. One of the things I remember in the years leading up to Vista was MS flirting with making a big change and I remember abandoning 'legacy' being mentioned in several articles. It never happened because there was a backlash, not a consumer one because this was before any public releases, but a developer and business one. Windows 8 seems to be at least a bit of a step in that direction. My point is change will encounter resistance, not to be pro or anti Windows 8, but to realize any change will meet resistance and I don't think DC would be any different in reacting to it.

40hz

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 10:41:09 AM »
The best I can suggest to anybody is they download the eval copy, install it on something, read a basic guide to using it (you'll need to btw), and try using it exclusively for a week or two.

I did. My opinion of Win8 didn't change very much for the positive.

But I was also glad that I do most of my personal work under Linux.  And have for the last few years.

YMMV.  :)

vlastimil

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 12:32:15 PM »
I think I can live with the touch UI, lack of Start button and all that - it may be even better than Win7 after one gets used to it. But the real show stopper is the Microsoft store, namely its closeness. Since I won't be able to create Metro/Modern UI app and distribute it without Microsoft's approval, I'll simply not even try to develop an app and jump through all the loops. And since Win8 makes me feel bad as a developer, it makes me feel bad as a user. I was actually considering buying Surface as my first tablet, but due to the Microsoft Store policy, I will not be getting one and I won't recommend it. You were so close, Microsoft...

Nod5

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 12:32:55 PM »
That was the most informative Win8 review so far. Most of the new start screen stuff seems possible to skip so no problem there (why would anyone want such a thing where there is FARR? :) ).

 I'm more worried about the Ribbonization of the GUI. Has that been shown possible to disable?

tranglos

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 02:57:37 PM »
Quote
It’s time to reinvent the desktop OS

Says who? Seriously, whoever pronounces such a grand ex-cathedra statement better do some heavy lifting first to support this argument.


Quote
Like Neowin says, take Windows 8 for what it is. Do not try and compare it to the past versions of Windows.

Why not? It's not a new Clint Eastwood movie. It's not a work of art. It is a tool which I expect to make my life and work easier. If I buy a new hammer, it is perfectly reasonable to compare it to the one I had before.

Anyway, how's that touch UI on a screen positioned some three feet away from the user? :-)

While I'm ranting, who came up with that infinitely lame and untranslatable name, "charms"? In Polish version of 8 this thing is now simply called a "panel". We do have a word for a "charm", of course, but used for anything other than a physical artifact such as an amulet or a talisman, it just sounds too weird and nonsensical. As a software translator, I am thankful I was not the one who had to figure this one out. Next, why not call folders "teepees" and files, "gems"? That would be really modern and really hipster-like, oh my!

tomos

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 03:10:19 PM »
^ lol tranglos :D

_______
general comment:

I havent used 8, but it seems to me there's a share of reaction against it because of the [very understandable] fear that MS might be planning to abandon the desktop. This is not helped by them trying -to a certain extent at any rate- to force the (non)Metro interface on us. Of course this could be them just trying to familiarise us with it so we're open to buying xyz with Windows 8 (or something similar) on it. As a corporation, I know MS dont care about the desktop, but business wont tolerate it's disappearance so I feel reasonably secure -
but not rock solid :-\

A lot of people more expert than me doubt the wisdom of combining desktop and touch interfaces, but from reading reviews it *sounds* like they've done a reasonably good job.
Tom

40hz

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 03:19:16 PM »
A lot of people more expert than me doubt the wisdom of combining desktop and touch interfaces, but from reading reviews it *sounds* like they've done a reasonably good job.

Perhaps. But I beg you to consider that should you attend a carnival - and find yourself in an audience that's applauding the performance of a "dancing" pig - it's important to remember most people aren't so much applauding the pig because it dances well. They simply bought their ticket, and are now applauding, because they're amazed a pig could do something which roughly resembles a dance at all.
 :-\
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:24:30 PM by 40hz »

tomos

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 03:26:00 PM »
A lot of people more expert than me doubt the wisdom of combining desktop and touch interfaces, but from reading reviews it *sounds* like they've done a reasonably good job.

Perhaps. But I beg you to consider that when you attend a carnival - and find yourself in a crowd that's applauding the performance of a dancing pig - it's important to remember most people aren't so much applauding the pig because it dances well. They're simply applauding because they're amazed a pig can do something which resembles a dance at all.
 :-\

You've tried it - I haven't (maybe I should give up there...)
For business people there is no advantage to this over 7, which probably means that 7 will be the next XP.

Maybe with 9, [they'll have done their advertising] they'll bring back start, make it so as desktop is completely separate from the other.
We'll see...
Tom

superboyac

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 03:34:01 PM »
A lot of people more expert than me doubt the wisdom of combining desktop and touch interfaces, but from reading reviews it *sounds* like they've done a reasonably good job.

Perhaps. But I beg you to consider that should you attend a carnival - and find yourself in an audience that's applauding the performance of a "dancing" pig - it's important to remember most people aren't so much applauding the pig because it dances well. They simply bought their ticket, and are now applauding, because they're amazed a pig could do something which roughly resembles a dance at all.
 :-\
That's a pretty accurate description of my perspective. :Thmbsup:

rgdot

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2012, 03:42:49 PM »
Has anybody tried WinMetro by IOBit, that kind of emulates Metro on XP and later?

I played around with it, it is not too bad, such as it is (not the real thing obviously)

Carol Haynes

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 04:19:54 AM »
I havent used 8, but it seems to me there's a share of reaction against it because of the [very understandable] fear that MS might be planning to abandon the desktop.

That is precisely what they are doing and that is precisely their intention.

They want new users to switch the computer on and find internet, email, facebook etc. right there in front of them and never have to click on Desktop at all - hell on ARM tablets Desktop won't exist.

This is all pretty clever from MS - the next stage in the game is 'you have used Windows 8 on a PC why not make your next purchase a tablet - you don't really need all the other stuff that comes with a netbook, laptop or desktop computer ... oh and hey, we have you covered MS Now run the shop so you know everything you want is easy to get and we also make the hardware."

Microsoft's slogan by the time Windows 9 or 10 appear (depending on how much crap they take over Windows 8 ) will be "Microsoft - locked in like Apple".

Businesses will put up with crap for so long but eventually they will move - if for no other reason than MS will phase out support for Windows desktop products at some point. In the meantime they will still be coughing up corporate subscriptions for old versions of Windows and old versions of Office (so why should MS care). I wouldn't be surprised if MS at some point doesn't change the corporate licensing to force the move to the latest version of windows and office ('so we can provide the best support') - given that they unilaterally rewrite EULAs and contracts all the time.

We have to accept that MS is getting out of the operating system and office software game and moving into the consumer/service/subscription business with a manufacturing arm (pun intended).

We can all squeal and squirm as much as we like.

Personally I am quite pleased I will reach retirement age before all this comes to full fruition but I pity anyone working in the IT industry over the coming decades. The 80s saw the death of big industry in the west, I suspect the next 20 years will see the death of information technology (as a business) in the west - everything will be locked into two or three large conglomerates and most of the work will be outsourced to suicide camps in the far east.

When are western governments going to notice that the west is gradually losing all forms of income apart from loans from China ?

mahesh2k

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2012, 05:23:50 AM »
On locked scale and the patent fights, I think apple wins any day. I don't think microsoft will be as successful like them with appstore and stuff. It took apple 3 years to push people for dependency on ITunes store and app store. MS can't push people that quickly with Windows 8. It will take some years and some biased media news to push people to use MS app store for purchase.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 05:37:31 AM »
On locked scale and the patent fights, I think apple wins any day. I don't think microsoft will be as successful like them with appstore and stuff. It took apple 3 years to push people for dependency on ITunes store and app store. MS can't push people that quickly with Windows 8. It will take some years and some biased media news to push people to use MS app store for purchase.

Depends how quickly major developers make the move to the new interface and the AppStore. Utlimately if not-Metro works as well as some think it will on tablets there is a good chance MS could gain market share rapidly - most of the reviews see a lot of advantages of not-Metro over iOS - and for me not having to depend on iTunes is a major draw. Even Apple fans who use Windows boxes hate iTunes on Windows. I think Apple deliberately make it suck to try and move people to Apple hardware.

Daleus

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Re: Neowin reviews Windows 8 - Leave your pre-conceived notions at the door
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2012, 06:53:31 AM »
This is quite an intersting discussion.  Just this morning, I completed a survey by InfoWorld Research, focused on the consumerization of IT and yesterday I read this piece on SlashDot:

http://news.slashdot...shdot+%28Slashdot%29

I tried Windows 8 when the Consumer Preview version was offered earlier this year.  It was slightly buggy and I found without a touch interface it was difficult to use.  I also understood the strategy of making some form of Windows a direct competitor to iOS. Whether or not it is a successful strategy is beyond me.

My thought is that the overwhelming popularity of iThings has got a lot of computer/IT companies in a Big Fat Stir(tm), but all I am seeing from any of them is a sheep-like determination to make a product just like an iThing.  It may have pretty colourful squares on it, but in my estimation, Win8 is essentially a wanna-be-like.

Pursuant to the SlashDot article linked above, the copy-catism seems to have taken Microsoft right down the rabbit hole into another walled garden app store.  I have never liked that idea and I look forward to the witch burnings and drownings I predict will occur when Microsoft starts taking a 30% cut (or whatever it is) of every product that goes through its own store.

Finally, and I understand *I* might get burned at the stake here myself, I am no fan of portable devices like the iThings and data capable phones. I don't believe them to be innovation, but rather a step backwards and very much playing into the hands of entities both corporate and governmental who want to double-speak me and control parts of my life they have no business concerning themselves with.  While the move to the "cloud" has certainly opened some doors to convenience, I use these services with the expectation that they will be yanked from under my feet, the moment I stop measuring up to someones expectations in some way. Consider the poor woman reported this week, who lost her library of legitimately purchased eBooks, just because Amazon is run by a bunch of pricks. With the reliance of portable devices on such cloud services and their attendant walled-garden purchase/installation setups, I'm staying way clear.  If I can't secure my purchase in my own home, on a non-connected device, I'll have no part of it.



Daleus, Curmudgeon-at-Large