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Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
app103:
An interesting bit from that...
The same applies for centralised virtual currencies, such as Facebook credits.
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So, though they say Facebook credits, does this apply to others also, such as XBox live points, Sony Points, etc?
-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 12:32 PM)
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I think they'll probably mostly restrict it to transactions not locked into a single business like most of the gaming currencies. Anything that acts as a ready substitute for cash (i.e convertible to real cash - or - broadly accepted) will probably come under the rubric.
Look at it this way - if they're even slightly serious (and in the USA they certainly are) about all Internet transactions soon being subject to some form of state sales tax, you can bet they'll regulate things like bitcoins since you could potentially do an end run around the tax system using them. And that brings up a much more powerful way of going after non-cooperative alternative currencies - TAX EVASION! (That's how they ultimately got Al Capone.)
I stand by my earlier comment: The reaction was inevitable. The outcome is predictable. :tellme:
-40hz (March 26, 2013, 02:10 PM)
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Any service or business in the US, in which one can pay cash for a virtual currency and then convert that currency back to cash is covered by this and has to comply with their rules.
Bitcoins falls under that to some degree, at least those businesses that buy and sell bitcoins.
Facebook does, because you can buy Facebook credits and transfer them to someone else, and if you have enough facebook credits, turn them back into cash.
The government isn't so much looking to catch tax evaders (but that could be a bonus) as much as they are trying to stop money laundering, which supports the drug trade and terrorism.
What I'd still like to know is if this site will be affected by these new rules. Will this site's donation credits system cause it to have to register as an MSB?
40hz:
The government isn't so much looking to catch tax evaders (but that could be a bonus) as much as they are trying to stop money laundering, which supports the drug trade and terrorism.
-app103 (March 26, 2013, 02:36 PM)
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Oh, I don't think it's to catch evaders per se either. I think it's more to criminalize one more thing. With that in place, it allows the IRS (and laws with no statute of limitations on them) to be brought into play. Those are powerful "persuaders" when you want to convince somebody to see things the government's way.
What I'd still like to know is if this site will be affected by these new rules. Will this site's donation credits system cause it to have to register as an MSB?
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I'd suspect if they can be cashed out for 'real' money the answer right now is: possibly probably maybe. ;)
However, long term, I think the answer to that question will very likely be: Yes.
8)
app103:
^I'd suspect if they can be cashed out for 'real' money the answer is: possibly probably maybe. ;)
-40hz (March 26, 2013, 03:23 PM)
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Well, mouser is reading that pdf right now, so we'll soon know what he thinks.
wraith808:
I wonder if there is a floor on the amount of money. I mean, for my years here, I've really only made money to support hobby and entertainment stuff. Not sure if anyone else has made more than that...
app103:
I wonder if there is a floor on the amount of money. I mean, for my years here, I've really only made money to support hobby and entertainment stuff. Not sure if anyone else has made more than that...
-wraith808 (March 26, 2013, 04:56 PM)
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There is nothing in the pdf about what the record keeping and reporting rules actually are, just who has to comply with them.
It is possible that it only applies to transactions over a certain amount. One wouldn't know unless they got a copy of those rules.
It might turn out that even if this site does have to register that the rules may not affect us at all, beyond the need to register, due to the smaller size of the donations and cashouts.
But this whole subject is something mouser does have to look into, very carefully, in order to not make any fatal mistakes that could get him or this site into trouble, which is why I brought it to his attention and gave him a link to that pdf, personally. I don't want to see anyone get into legal troubles, especially if it can be avoided with knowledge.
Give him some time to read & digest that pdf, and I am sure he will respond to this thread, or create a new one if he feels the response is that important.
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