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Last post Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?  (Read 184068 times)

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #700 on: January 28, 2015, 08:08:23 AM »
(see attachment in previous post)
First U.S. bitcoin exchange opens for business

09money190v.jpg

I guess the US government and it's intel apparatus (along with its allies) finally had enough time to sufficiently analyze the way Bitcoin works and get some monitoring mechanisms in place that they no longer feel as threatened as they used to.

Then too, bitcoins could be extremely handy for moving covert ops and hush money around. Blood diamonds are sooo unseemly...

It pays to remember, as William Gibson so nicely put it in Burning Chrome, that "the street finds its own uses for things..." -

So too does government. ;) 8)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: Can you say "co-opted?"

The giveaway is that Microsoft is now accepting bitcoins. That to me is the clearest indication Bitcoin has been greenlighted at the highest levels. Of course The Powers That Be won't acknowledge that's what happened. It's far more useful to let people think they're powerless to stop it and therefor bowed to the inevitable. Like the old saying goes: "You have to let the kiddies win every so often. Otherwise they won't play."
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 08:52:57 AM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #701 on: January 28, 2015, 11:25:12 AM »
It pays to remember, as William Gibson so nicely put it in Burning Chrome, that "the street finds its own uses for things..." -

So too does government.


It's always struck me as funny how - behaviorally speaking - it always seems to be perceived as a pyramid with the government at the top and the - street fighting - rabble at the bottom. Because to me it's not a pyramid at all...but a circle...with middle management being the only ones that truly have to suffer "good" behavior. Because the closer you get to the top of the pile, the less oversight there is constraining ones behavior. And this continues until at the highest levels...where no one is/can be watching ... The typical street rules; posturing, aggressive attitudes, and a reliance/thirst for violence returns as everything circles back to the worst possible behavioral traits.

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #702 on: January 28, 2015, 11:48:49 AM »
It's always struck me as funny how - behaviorally speaking - it always seems to be perceived as a pyramid with the government at the top and the - street fighting - rabble at the bottom. Because to me it's not a pyramid at all...but a circle...with middle management being the only ones that truly have to suffer "good" behavior.

I always saw it more like when you get two equally aggressive, loud-mouthed kids living on the same street.

They're gonna fight.

It's what they do. ;)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #703 on: January 28, 2015, 12:21:08 PM »
As ultimate outcomes go, yes ... But that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out the similarities in behavior at the perceived 'top' and 'bottom' of a hierarchy.

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #704 on: January 28, 2015, 01:05:36 PM »
^Some years ago, an article in The Harvard Business Review noted the curious phenomena of how many antisocial behaviors and attitudes (that are not normally tolerated in regular society, such as: egotism, unprovoked aggression, intolerance, snap judgement, and a callous disregard for the feelings and opinions of others) are somehow magically elevated to the status of virtues, and considered to be desirable and admirable traits when employed in business and government affairs.

Small surprise that so many business and government types seem to live in some weird virtual reality totally divorced from regular life. We apparently encourage our 'leaders' (and I use that term loosely) to misbehave. And furthermore, expect (or possibly even insist) they do so.

Is that more what you were talking about? ;)

(Side note: said tolerance also seems to exhibit strong gender-bias in that many people (including women) are less tolerant of such behaviors in a woman, even if she holds high office, or is the CEO of a corporation. If true, it's not only a matter of different rules - but different rules for boys and girls.)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 01:16:51 PM by 40hz »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #705 on: January 28, 2015, 02:52:06 PM »
Is that more what you were talking about?

Yes.

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #706 on: January 28, 2015, 03:34:23 PM »
Is that more what you were talking about?

Yes.

Good! We aims ta pleeze. :P ;D

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #707 on: January 28, 2015, 03:59:23 PM »
This from ArsTechnica:

Quote
The venture-backed Bitcoin startup CoinTerra has filed for bankruptcy, making it the second major miner manufacturer to do so in recent months.

The Chapter 7 filing, which begins the process of liquidating company assets, was submitted on Saturday and comes just weeks after a Utah-based data center sued CoinTerra over a contract dispute.

Full article here.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #708 on: January 28, 2015, 05:29:19 PM »
It's getting really hard for me to stay in this game. I've basically stopped monitoring anything because it's just become too depressing to watch. If the coin's value doesn't crawl out of the toilet soon, I'm kinda screwed..

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #709 on: January 28, 2015, 07:28:16 PM »
^Some years ago, an article in The Harvard Business Review noted the curious phenomena of how many antisocial behaviors and attitudes (that are not normally tolerated in regular society, such as: egotism, unprovoked aggression, intolerance, snap judgement, and a callous disregard for the feelings and opinions of others) are somehow magically elevated to the status of virtues, and considered to be desirable and admirable traits when employed in business and government affairs.

Yup. Kind of like how theft is bad, unless you're government and call it "tax" or "speeding ticket" or "fine" or "civil forfeiture". Theft is theft, even if you have fancy uniforms and titles.
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40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #710 on: January 28, 2015, 07:53:48 PM »
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #711 on: January 28, 2015, 09:28:42 PM »
That was cute.

Coinbase ran a nice moon rocket countdown time that led to several hours of buying and price-pumping in bitcoin, that came to an abrupt trend reversal the moment it reached zero.

And what can I say? I made bank on that selling seconds before the zero expecting the hype bubble to burst.

Today it is very nearly back to where it was last week, with rumors circulating of another major exchange hack.

At the same time the charts suggest that a major upward or downward movement is imminent, but it remains unknown which direction it is going to move.

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #712 on: January 30, 2015, 06:15:19 PM »
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P

Not in the least. Well, unless you're a communist. And we all know just how awesome communism ends. ;)

Labour theory of property (Locke)

More on Locke & property

It's a bit ridiculous to claim that "property is theft".
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #713 on: January 30, 2015, 07:58:14 PM »
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P

Not in the least. Well, unless you're a communist. And we all know just how awesome communism ends. ;)

About as awesomely as Libertarianism and "Free Market" economics keeps misfiring AFAICT. :P ;)


Quote
It's a bit ridiculous to claim that "property is theft".

No more than taxation IF you accept the argument it's an acceptable trade-off for what you get in return. And that is definitely a case of something where YMMV. Usually the closer you are to the top of the food chain (i.e. where The System really is working for YOU) the less onerous government taxation and regulation generally seems. 8)

It's the age old have/have-not/has-but wants more struggle. That never changes, no matter how often you rebalance the sides. ;D

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #714 on: January 30, 2015, 09:05:39 PM »
^Yes. But on a certain meta-level, isn't claiming ownership of property - in any way, shape, or form - a specie of theft? :P

Not in the least. Well, unless you're a communist. And we all know just how awesome communism ends. ;)

About as awesomely as Libertarianism and "Free Market" economics keeps misfiring AFAICT. :P ;)

I'm not sure where you're getting that. We don't have a free market now. Sure, it's in some way similar, but it's still far from free.

Right now we have governments using Keynesian economics policies, which means creating debt, which bears interest, which compounds, and never gets paid off. Debt slavery ring any bells? :)

So, to right the wrongs, central banks double-down on this failing strategy and being printing more money (QE). Bond interest rates drop to near zero, so investors and savers look for other places to put their money -- housing, real estate, stocks -- and lo and behold, what do we have? Bubbles in the real estate, housing, and stock markets.

The artificial creation of interest rates by central banks creates malinvestment and bubbles. On the other hand, interest rates that float with the market don't create that sort of crisis waiting to happen.

For the last financial crisis, the only economists that predicted it were Austrian economists.

We'll see if their predictions bear out this time though. Given the price of oil, the drop in copper prices, and pressure on commodities, it looks like cash will be king in the next year or so.

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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Arizona Hot

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #715 on: February 20, 2015, 10:30:42 PM »
Marshals to auction Silk Road owner's bitcoins March 5.jpgDoes anyone here use Bitcoins?

Marshals to auction Silk Road owner's bitcoins March 5

Anyone here interested in bidding in the auction? What price do you think they will go for?

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #716 on: February 21, 2015, 04:10:09 AM »
^ Sure! Why not! I've got an extra $15,000,000 USD lying right over here! ;D

They'll probably go for between 10 and 15 million. There's a chance that someone will bid higher though just to get that many all at once -- could go for double.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #717 on: February 21, 2015, 06:57:07 AM »
Yay! ...Just what we need...another government orchestrated nose dive in BTC value.

Steven Avery

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #718 on: February 21, 2015, 09:59:40 AM »

Coming to this discussion late.  Only read the first few pages and this one, so far.

With Bitcoin being used primarily in internet gambling and involving a wasteful set-up application by a geek oligarchy (mining bitcoins) I find it rather an absurd and funky-wrong attempt to have an alternate medium of exchange. With a bit of a ponzi investment element and dubious internals. (There is no there there.)   The early attendees can do good financially if they can find ways to cash out, which is the nature of ponzi.  If they hold everything, they risk everything.

If you want to speculate at this point, it is a bit like day trading, with far less possibility of a sensible strategy. Except, I gather, that you can not afford to make small transactions, due to transaction fees.

And I am a big fan of bullion and real estate as real money and value.  My view: it is hard to say that gold or silver is overvalued or undervalued.  One ounce of either remains at 1 oz a year later. It is the price, volume and confidence in the fiat currencies that varies.  The bullion remains the same.

If you, or a friend or relative, puts some wallpaper money into bullion, it never changes. If the price goes down, that's ok.  If you lose, you win. Since, up to that time, we have not had an economic collapse and hyperinflation .. yet.  Whatever little stash of green is around is still valuable.

=================

If there is a time when Bitcoin has the same amount of convertibility as decent credit card points (transferable gift cards for Target, Bed Bath and Beyond and Barnes and Noble) let me know and I will rethink the above.

Steven
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 10:22:43 AM by Steven Avery »

SeraphimLabs

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #719 on: February 21, 2015, 12:30:10 PM »
Coming to this discussion late.  Only read the first few pages and this one, so far.

With Bitcoin being used primarily in internet gambling and involving a wasteful set-up application by a geek oligarchy (mining bitcoins) I find it rather an absurd and funky-wrong attempt to have an alternate medium of exchange. With a bit of a ponzi investment element and dubious internals. (There is no there there.)   The early attendees can do good financially if they can find ways to cash out, which is the nature of ponzi.  If they hold everything, they risk everything.

And thus we had the late 2013 bubble, which has now crashed. A lot of the early adopters already got out, while people who held are alongside later arrivals in building and maintaining bitcoin. It has been steadily creeping up again for a while now, demonstrating a nice slow growth that translates to lasting value instead of the get rich quick bubble mentality.

While it is true that it is used a fair amount for gambling and contraband, it isn't as anonymous as you think. Law enforcement seizing your bitcoin wallet means that they can now follow all of the transactions you made through the public record that is the blockchain. Like so, it is possible to keep your privacy without compromising law enforcement's ability to collect evidence. Even DPR of silkroad got busted pretty hard by that- they were able to positively identify his bitcoin addresses, and use his transaction history as evidence against him. Anonymous? Not really.

These days the marketplace is dominated by Forex-like strategies, and many people who got into daytrading through bitcoin are actually moving back towards Forex using their bitcoin profits as starting investment. Though it remains unregulated and you can easily lose it all if you are careless or leave large sums of money on a vulnerable exchange, its losing its new frontier impression and settling down to be more business-like.

If you want to speculate at this point, it is a bit like day trading, with far less possibility of a sensible strategy. Except, I gather, that you can not afford to make small transactions, due to transaction fees.
The opposite as point of fact. I was not able to turn a profit attempting to daytrade normal stocks or forex, but I am reliably getting profit daytrading bitcoin. The market is actually more predictable than you would expect, and has a high enough volatility to make regular profitable movements if you are positioned to catch them.

For instance a typical trading fee is 0.02% of the total order value, deposits have no fees, and withdrawls usually involve an 0.0001 btc transaction fee to encourage miners to continue as the yield per block decreases by the planned schedule. These fees are so low that I can put $10 on the table and trade it with profit, where a single transaction of NYSE stocks will often have a $10 fee just to place the buy order.

And I am a big fan of bullion and real estate as real money and value.  My view: it is hard to say that gold or silver is overvalued or undervalued.  One ounce of either remains at 1 oz a year later. It is the price, volume and confidence in the fiat currencies that varies.  The bullion remains the same.

If you, or a friend or relative, puts some wallpaper money into bullion, it never changes. If the price goes down, that's ok.  If you lose, you win. Since, up to that time, we have not had an economic collapse and hyperinflation .. yet.  Whatever little stash of green is around is still valuable.

You can also do leveraged trades now too if you go to the right places. Just this morning I closed some short positions that were made with 50x leverage. Such a capability is doing wonders for taking the volatility out of bitcoin by making it so traders can profit happily from smaller movements, keeping the value stable so people can actually use it as a currency.

Bitcoin's volatility is decreasing, and as it does leverage rates will continue to increase to allow traders to profit more efficiently. But its a nice feedback loop that in time will consolidate the unpredictable and fast paced market of bitcoin to behave like any other forex transaction would. It will always move a little, even normal currency forex like USD/CAD moves from time to time. But that movement can be reduced to tenths of a cent per day, allowing bitcoin to retain a value close enough to constant for people to use it as currency without fear of a market crash.





If there is a time when Bitcoin has the same amount of convertibility as decent credit card points (transferable gift cards for Target, Bed Bath and Beyond and Barnes and Noble) let me know and I will rethink the above.

Steven

A big part of the holdup is updating infrastructure to support it. For an online store this is quite easy- connect the store to a payment gateway or directly to a self-hosted bitcoin wallet (lower fees this way).

Physical stores have to purchase additional equipment to interface a bitcoin processor or wallet with their existing point of sale systems, but in theory it should be able to interact the same way a credit card terminal does with the key exception that at some point it needs to present a code for the buyer to scan and send bitcoin to.

Time is solving this issue, if bitcoin can stay clear of attracting the wrong kind of attentions it should survive long enough to see this become largely solved. It is attractive for small businesses because the per transaction fee is so tiny- at the time of this writing it works out to $0.024 for any size transaction. Compare this to the $3 or more often charged by credit providers and the difference will add up quickly.

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #720 on: March 04, 2015, 08:08:48 AM »
Screenshot of a Google cache:



404 at the original for some reason.

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #721 on: March 23, 2015, 12:34:52 AM »
I figured for the fundraiser I would finally get off my behind and create a bitcoin account so we could accept bitcoin donations.  You'll find the address at the bottom of the alternate donation page: here.

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #722 on: March 23, 2015, 01:09:10 AM »
I figured for the fundraiser I would finally get off my behind and create a bitcoin account so we could accept bitcoin donations.  You'll find the address at the bottom of the alternate donation page: here.

And people can see how much has been donated so far here:

https://blockchain.i...WZjnp6sGMLAKTcjeQwwX

 :Thmbsup:

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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mouser

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #723 on: March 23, 2015, 02:05:52 AM »
Oh that's kind of neat -- didn't realize you could see that.
So now that i've set up bitcoin.. Am I rich yet?

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #724 on: March 23, 2015, 07:22:13 AM »
Am I rich yet?

To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛ ..○

Or maybe HODL for a bit. ;)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker