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Last post Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?  (Read 184704 times)

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #325 on: October 24, 2013, 10:49:18 AM »
Ok, check this fellow:

http://www.zdnet.com...stly-one-7000022352/

Wow. Just wow. It's amazing that he can pack in so much wrong information and idiocy into such a short space.

Many commenters are similarly clueless. It's like randomly vomited words on a page - incoherent nonsense. The article's author doesn't even understand inflation/deflation.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #326 on: October 24, 2013, 11:32:15 AM »
^an impressively bad article...
Tom

wraith808

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #327 on: October 24, 2013, 02:04:24 PM »
Quote
Wow... take an economics class!

Inflation (a *decrease* in a currency's value) is a completely different phenomenon from the price of a currency going UP (which is an *increase* in a currency's value).

You see, "inflation", as we usually encounter it, is due to an increase in the *amount* of money in circulation (not necessarily *physical* currency, mind you, as many people are paid, these days, with direct-deposit, and we buy things with a debit card, so no physical currency ever moved through our bank account. So, we're talking about the total amount of bank-account assets plus their cash minus their debts). When the amount of money in the economy goes up, that's more money people can spend on items in the market. And, since every price is the result of an invisible bidding war between buyers on a non-infinite supply of goods, if people *can* spend more money on something, some *will* spend more on it, and the price will be driven up.

When this happens, the price of the *currency* drops. It doesn't cost you as much, in terms of other currencies, to purchase it, because it doesn't have as much purchasing power. For example, suppose the British pound and the American dollar were trading 1:1. Suppose a candy-bar costs 1 dollar or 1 pound. Then, the American gov't prints a bunch of money and pays the people to build a bunch of roads or whatever. Now, the American people have twice as much money in their pocket, so they're going to be able to pay twice as much for a candy-bar, so the price of candy-bars goes up to 2 dollars. Meanwhile, a candy-bar *still* costs 1 British pound. And the *exchange* rate becomes 1 British pound buys 2 American dollars. *THAT* is inflation.

This is the opposite of what's happening with Bitcoin. A bitcoin's price, in terms of other currencies, has been going *up*, even though the supply of bitcoins has been (slowly) increasing. This is due to increased demand for it as more and more merchants accept it (which is the same as "demand" increasing).

Renegade are you posting in comments again?  ;D

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #328 on: October 24, 2013, 08:16:25 PM »
Renegade are you posting in comments again?  ;D

Hahaha! Nope - wasn't me. He was far too polite. :D
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40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #329 on: October 25, 2013, 11:45:37 AM »
"The Street finds its own uses for things." - William Gibson

transm04.gif

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


According to BleepingComputer, the ransomware CryptoLocker does... ;D

Quote
Known Bitcoin Payment addresses for CryptoLocker

CryptoLocker allows you to pay the ransom by sending 2 bitcoins to an address shown in the decryption program. Bitcoins are currently worth over $200 USD on some bitcoins exchanges. Earlier variants of CryptoLocker included static bitcoin addresses for everyone who was infected. These static addresses include:

    https://blockchain.info/address/18iEz617DoDp8CNQUyyrjCcC7XCGDf5SVb
    https://blockchain.info/address/1KP72fBmh3XBRfuJDMn53APaqM6iMRspCh

Newer variants of CryptoLocker appear to be dynamically generating new bitcoin payment addresses for each instance of an infection. You can use the links above to see transactions into the wallet and out of the wallet.

How thoughtful of them to make it so easy to pay up in order to ransom your files back! ;) :Thmbsup:
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 12:08:27 PM by 40hz »

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #330 on: October 26, 2013, 01:12:53 AM »
How thoughtful of them to make it so easy to pay up in order to ransom your files back! ;) :Thmbsup:

Looks like quite a few people even pay. :(

I don't like most stories like this in the news because they conflate issues together that are completely unrelated.

e.g. John drove a Toyota as a getaway car in a bank robbery, therefore Toyotas are criminal cars.

etc. etc.

That bit there actually looks simply informational though, which is a nice departure from the non-stop hit-pieces written with kindergarten logic.

In any event...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #331 on: October 26, 2013, 01:20:44 AM »
For anyone that would like a chance to win 5 ozt .999 fine silver + 1 bitcoin!

http://voluntaryist....axation/contest.html

Quote
A Voluntaryist Contest
How Do You Explain to People That Taxation Is Theft?

Details at the link.

I think I'll enter that contest. I've been meaning to PM someone here about that exact issue, but have put it off until I have more time and can write up a more thoughtful answer. This gives me some more motivation to find the time.

5 ozt of silver is sweet, but 1 bitcoin is much sweeter! ;)

If you don't have any bitcoins yet, here's your chance to get 1!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #332 on: October 26, 2013, 07:25:20 AM »

5 ozt of silver is sweet, but 1 bitcoin is much sweeter! ;)

If you don't have any bitcoins yet, here's your chance to get 1!



And in addition to your chance to win a free bitcoin, your name will also be automatically entered for a 'chance' to be selected for the IRS's ever popular "randomly selected" high audit probability list!!! So nice of you to out yourself as a troublemaker...

kipLyallCartoon_surveillanceState_72dpi.png

( :) Sorry. Not trying to go OT or scare people off. But my current campaign is pointing out the dangerous implications and possibilities for official abuse now that we live in a surveillance state here in the good ol' USA. If the thought of what this technology can be used for finally starts to worry people...well...they need to be worried.)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 07:37:19 AM by 40hz »

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #333 on: October 26, 2013, 10:09:45 AM »

5 ozt of silver is sweet, but 1 bitcoin is much sweeter! ;)

If you don't have any bitcoins yet, here's your chance to get 1!

And in addition to your chance to win a free bitcoin, your name will also be automatically entered for a 'chance' to be selected for the IRS's ever popular "randomly selected" high audit probability list!!! So nice of you to out yourself as a troublemaker...
 (see attachment in previous post)
( :) Sorry. Not trying to go OT or scare people off. But my current campaign is pointing out the dangerous implications and possibilities for official abuse now that we live in a surveillance state here in the good ol' USA. If the thought of what this technology can be used for finally starts to worry people...well...they need to be worried.)

All the more reason to be vocal NOW and to support things/ideas that undermine the surveillance state.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #334 on: October 26, 2013, 10:57:32 AM »
^I think we 're past the point where just "speaking out" is going to be sufficient to extract us from this quagmire.
 :(

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #335 on: October 26, 2013, 11:13:46 AM »
^I think we 're past the point where just "speaking out" is going to be sufficient to extract us from this quagmire.
 :(

All the more reason to put one's money where one's mouth is and use bitcoins instead of fiat. ;)  :Thmbsup:
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mahesh2k

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #336 on: October 27, 2013, 07:47:24 AM »
I wonder if DC allows bitcoins for the donation? That would be great. I don't know if mouser has any plans to add bitcoins over here.

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #337 on: October 28, 2013, 12:01:19 AM »
I wonder if DC allows bitcoins for the donation? That would be great. I don't know if mouser has any plans to add bitcoins over here.

The only problem is this:

https://en.wikipedia...i/Gresham's_law

Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value as you avoid fiat inflation and get the advantage of bitcoin's deflation. This becomes easier and easier as more merchants/etc. start accepting bitcoins.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #338 on: October 28, 2013, 12:02:13 AM »
And just for fun, add some holiday horror for your local banksters:

9XDpVrY.jpg

 :Thmbsup:
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

barney

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #339 on: October 28, 2013, 02:16:19 AM »
Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value

???


Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #340 on: October 28, 2013, 05:28:14 AM »
A different perspective. Note that it is a log scale.

gv9SoVH.pngDoes anyone here use Bitcoins?
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #341 on: October 28, 2013, 05:43:24 AM »
Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value

???

I'm not quite sure what "???" means, but I'm guessing that what I had above was a bit confusing. Here's a basic explanation.

All world currencies are inflationary. That is, they all lose value over time. $1 today has less purchasing power tomorrow. This is true for ALL world currencies that are issued/backed by governments/central banks. There are no exceptions.

When you see the USD go "up", it's not really going up. It's still going down. It's simply that it's falling in value slower than other currencies. For example, last May the EUR was around $1.28 USD. It is currently about $1.38 USD. So, the USD has fallen in value faster than the EUR since May.

BTC (bitcoins), on the other hand, is a deflationary currency. That is, if you have 1 BTC today, tomorrow you will have more purchasing power.

So, imagine you have $1,000 USD today. You plan to save that to spend on a very nice gift for your honey for St. Valentine's Day. But that's still about 3.5 months away. With inflation, your $1,000 will be worth about $965. i.e. You LOST $35 of purchasing power by saving your money instead of spending it today. (I'm running with a flat rate of about 1% inflation per month there, which is simple, but may be high, though it is entirely realistic - some sectors see 4% inflation per month.)

However, if you buy $1,000 worth of bitcoins, you'd have about 5 BTC today. In 3.5 months you could sell your BTC for USD and have about $2,000, which adjusted for inflation from today (as above), would be $1,930 worth of purchasing power. (I'm running on a rough estimation of BTC doubling every quarter. Given that it grows by an order of magnitude or more per year, this is realistic, though may be conservative.)

So, your options are:

1) Save USD and spend $965 PPP on your honey.
2) Buy BTC, save it, sell it for USD, then spend $1,930 PPP on your honey.

* PPP = Purchasing Power Parity

Does that make sense?

i.e. Buy BTC to save - cash out in fiat in order to take advantage of the additional purchasing power that a deflationary currency provides.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #342 on: October 28, 2013, 06:08:17 AM »
All world currencies are inflationary. That is, they all lose value over time. $1 today has less purchasing power tomorrow. This is true for ALL world currencies that are issued/backed by governments/central banks. There are no exceptions.

* I skipped a lot there. It's just a simple matter of tracing monetary history. For the USD, it's the gold/silver standard, the 1913 betrayal by Wilson, Bretton-Woods, Nixon's 1971 betrayal, deregulation, derivatives, and Quantitative Easing.
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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #343 on: October 28, 2013, 08:14:56 AM »
Here's a site that ONLY accepts bitcoins. They sell shoes. (Some nice looking ones, I might add.)

http://persianshoes.com/bitcoin/

Screenshot - 10_29_2013 , 12_13_15 AM.png

Quote
Why don’t you accept other forms of payment?

The short answer is we’d love to but we can’t!

Our business is making and selling leather products. We like to sell our products across the world and the more customers the better. The problem is we operate in Iran and most payment systems either are not willing to serve us at all or impose a huge risk on our business. Before launching this website, our international sale has been limited to a few dedicated customers who knew about the quality of our products and were prepared to go through a lot of trouble to pay us! This of course, may sound incomprehensible for people who have all sorts of electronic payments at their disposal. However, before finding out about Bitcoin, receiving our money was the number one obstacle in expanding our business.

Now, with Bitcoin and the help of Bitcoin community we are hoping to become a role model for other small businesses in Iran to find global customers.

I really wish them all the best!

But there's another example how bitcoin is helping people do things that they otherwise couldn't. Buy & sell handmade Persian shoes direct from Iran!  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #344 on: October 28, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »
Interesting. 8)

Screenshot - 10_29_2013 , 2_31_58 AM.png
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Stoic Joker

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #345 on: October 28, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »
I wonder if DC allows bitcoins for the donation? That would be great. I don't know if mouser has any plans to add bitcoins over here.

That might actually be a good opportunity to allow everyone here a chance to buy into the Bitcoin system without having to spend a lot and/or save up for the current cost of a single Bitcoin. Assuming Mouser would be interested in converting the current DC micropayment system to be Bitcoin based/backed.

tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #346 on: October 28, 2013, 03:11:43 PM »
The ... problem is this:

https://en.wikipedia...i/Gresham's_law

Why spend bitcoins when you can get rid of fiat? (This is a general problem.) What I'm thinking is that constantly funnelling fiat into bitcoins then spending that is a good way to preserve value as you avoid fiat inflation and get the advantage of bitcoin's deflation. This becomes easier and easier as more merchants/etc. start accepting bitcoins.

IIUC Gresham's Law would indicate that Bitcoin will be saved and not spent at all - so long as fiat money exists (presuming Bitcoin continues increasing in value). [edit] but yes, your logic is good, so long as bitcoins increase). [/edit]

Interesting to note the couple of paragraphs there about how/why they stopped using silver and other valuable metals to make coins (with silver in the US, a chicken/egg scenario could be argued).
Tom
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:26:48 PM by tomos »

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #347 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:23 PM »
...without having to spend a lot and/or save up for the current cost of a single Bitcoin.

You can purchase fractional amounts. There's no need to purchase an entire bitcoin.

The easiest way for most people is probably through https://localbitcoins.com/.

IIUC Gresham's Law would indicate that Bitcoin will be saved and not spent at all - so long as fiat money exists (presuming Bitcoin continues increasing in value). [edit] but yes, your logic is good, so long as bitcoins increase). [/edit]

Well, I think we need to be a bit flexible with Gresham's law. It's more of a tendency than an absolute.

But bitcoin is naturally deflationary, so it will continue. The scenario where bitcoin inflates is where you have bitcoins being the dominant currency in a massively contracting economy with a slow velocity of money. However, that's a nightmare scenario that will probably be accompanied by the zombie apocalypse. ;D
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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #348 on: October 28, 2013, 11:24:45 PM »
The 3rd largest crowd-funding site now accepts bitcoins:

http://www.pozible.c...og/article/index/129
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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #349 on: October 29, 2013, 11:01:18 PM »
A fellow posted a video of himself using the new Robocoin Bitcoin ATM in Vancouver:



 :Thmbsup:
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker