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Author Topic: Multiple ripoffs  (Read 4750 times)

Arizona Hot

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Multiple ripoffs
« on: September 30, 2012, 11:33:21 AM »

mouser

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »
Thanks for posting that -- I happen to love these kinds of side-by-side comparison articles of new stuff vs the old stuff they ripped off or copied (whether the ripoff is real or imagined or coincidental).

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 12:34:19 PM »
I knew about the Lego and Finding Nemo stories.

I get more and more disgusted each time I think about either of those. :sick:

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 12:45:02 PM »
Thanks for posting that -- I happen to love these kinds of side-by-side comparison articles of new stuff vs the old stuff they ripped off or copied (whether the ripoff is real or imagined or coincidental).

(Satire)
No. Those were absolutely not "ripoffs". Those famous American products were clearly innovative. And Apple's lawyer has a letter for you if you disagree about Black Cookies with Round Edges. Now go back to your crushed American Dream and like it!
(/satire)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 12:57:46 PM »
I really can't get that upset about the Lego thing. Maybe the original was ahead of it's time, or maybe it just wasn't marketed well enough...I don't know. But it brings to mind the Google history of the zipper article. The zipper went through 3 or 4 people before it actually became a "hit". Partially because it wasn't refined enough, and partially because it hadn't found the right application. In the patent mad world of today that would never have been tollerated.

*Shrug* ...Just thinking out loud.

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 01:03:24 PM »
I really can't get that upset about the Lego thing. Maybe the original was ahead of it's time, or maybe it just wasn't marketed well enough...

It's not an issue of bad marketing or being ahead of its time. Go dig out the full story of what went down with that. You will be disgusted by the time you're finished. :)

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 01:05:39 PM »
Those were absolutely not "ripoffs". Those famous American products

Um...Legos are not an American product even if Lego DK is very careful not to claim to have invented the interlocking toy block it is based on...  ;)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 01:10:51 PM by 40hz »

f0dder

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 01:08:06 PM »
Those were absolutely not "ripoffs". Those famous American products
Um...Legos are not an American product.  ;)
WHAT?! You mean something as hugely popular and internationally known as LEGO aren't all-Amerikan? It's made by FURRENERS?! Even the original, which Leg Godt ripped off, was from abroad? Day-um!

... ;)
- carpe noctem

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 01:16:47 PM »
^I think part of that is because, in the US, having a business failure with your name on it isn't the automatic end of your career like it often is in many other places. People expect (or at least accept) business failures over here.

Bad as that can be at times, it still makes businesses and investors less afraid to take chances.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2012, 02:37:09 PM »
It's not an issue of bad marketing or being ahead of its time. Go dig out the full story of what went down with that. You will be disgusted by the time you're finished. :)

It might in fact be the very definition of Bad Marketing. After all, no one said Marketing had more than a passing kiss with the Truth. So if one company is legit first, and the next company slams $100 million and pulverizes you, that's ... Marketing.


TaoPhoenix

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2012, 02:39:28 PM »
^I think part of that is because, in the US, having a business failure with your name on it isn't the automatic end of your career like it often is in many other places. People expect (or at least accept) business failures over here.

Bad as that can be at times, it still makes businesses and investors less afraid to take chances.

I've seen this a bunch of times in business theory, and I think as much as we have other problems in the US, "business failure" isn't really one of them, not quite. Many/most entrepreneurs aren't blackballed for *life* based on one bad biz that didn't work out. Yeah, the tabloids might be mean for a year, fine. But then the guy just takes a sabbatical for a year to wait for the media to get bored, then the next one out could be the grand slam.

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2012, 04:32:35 PM »
It's not an issue of bad marketing or being ahead of its time. Go dig out the full story of what went down with that. You will be disgusted by the time you're finished. :)


It might in fact be the very definition of Bad Marketing. After all, no one said Marketing had more than a passing kiss with the Truth. So if one company is legit first, and the next company slams $100 million and pulverizes you, that's ... Marketing.



No. Just what those who routinely exploit others would like us to accept as "marketing" and "business as usual." I personally refuse to let them redefine words and frame the debate to make what they're doing seem somehow acceptable.

I no longer concede so much as a single point to that crowd. Their behavior is not acceptable or justifiable. And it's about time more people started saying so.  :)

wraith808

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2012, 06:07:28 PM »
I think it falls into the same category as DRM, Patent, and Copyright to be honest.

Someone makes a phone, and says that no one else can make theirs look anything like that, and sues if someone does.

Someone makes a plastic brick with raised dots, and says that no one else can make theirs look anythinng like that, and sues if someone does.

What's the difference in those two scenarios?

Arizona Hot

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2012, 10:56:18 PM »
It's all in a rampant history of domination. Not everyone is nice. You choose one master or another.  They're not always the same, that's change and politics. So get back in the dirt where you belong, peasant!

mouser

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2012, 11:08:47 PM »
Quote
What's the difference in those two scenarios?

You make a very good point.

I think it comes down to who we view as the bad guy, bully, cheater, freeloader, or exploiter in any given scenario..

Sometimes it feels like the "original inventor" is abusing the system by suing everyone who has a similar idea -- using their money to scare off reasonable alternatives and making tons of money through legal extortion.

And sometimes it feels like some big company has just walked all over a small inventor and used their influence and marketing dollars and aggression to trample over and bury the original developer.

wraith808

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 12:13:15 AM »
Quote
What's the difference in those two scenarios?

You make a very good point.

I think it comes down to who we view as the bad guy, bully, cheater, freeloader, or exploiter in any given scenario..

Sometimes it feels like the "original inventor" is abusing the system by suing everyone who has a similar idea -- using their money to scare off reasonable alternatives and making tons of money through legal extortion.

And sometimes it feels like some big company has just walked all over a small inventor and used their influence and marketing dollars and aggression to trample over and bury the original developer.


And I do agree with both of these points.  But laws have to be made to be impartial (the blind lady and all).  Same thing happened/happens with Microsoft vs. the rest of the world.  They do the same things as others, and are held to a different standard.  I can see the thought process behind it, and based on emotions and what I'd like to happen, I'd agree.  But logic tells me that they all have to be treated the same way.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2012, 06:59:14 AM »
I think it falls into the same category as DRM, Patent, and Copyright to be honest.

Someone makes a phone, and says that no one else can make theirs look anything like that, and sues if someone does.

Someone makes a plastic brick with raised dots, and says that no one else can make theirs look anythinng like that, and sues if someone does.

What's the difference in those two scenarios?

That is precisely the direction I was pondering earlier. Thanks for stating it more clearly.

kyrathaba

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2012, 07:56:58 AM »
Quote
And I do agree with both of these points.  But laws have to be made to be impartial (the blind lady and all).  Same thing happened/happens with Microsoft vs. the rest of the world.  They do the same things as others, and are held to a different standard.  I can see the thought process behind it, and based on emotions and what I'd like to happen, I'd agree.  But logic tells me that they all have to be treated the same way.

+1.

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2012, 08:33:16 AM »
What's the difference in those two scenarios?

Umm..the original idea and the functional design were unique at the time?

There were already numerous other ways toy manufacturers had come up with to attach blocks. Hilary Page's way of doing it was the first that really worked well - and brought a unique capability to the table. His blocks created durable assemblies - but were also easy to take apart. Almost paradoxical. (The depth of the pegs and their distance apart is the key to why it works so well. They have a wedging action unless pulled apart in a parallel motion.) A totally unique design. And neither obvious nor intuitive - which should be fairly apparent considering nobody has ever attempted to show prior art for that design.

But there you have it.

Unfortunately, for some people, their overall disgust with all things related to patents makes them equate legitimate attempts to enforce a valid patent on something with patent trolling. An attitude which hurts legitimate inventors almost as much as the patent trolls do.

In the case of Lego, it's interesting to note that Lego DK still doesn't claim to have invented Legos blocks in any of their official literature - although they do talk around it a bit to allow people to think that if they wish. And Lego did make it a point (afer his death) to buy title to Page's other designs...so ask why they felt the need to do that and draw what conclusions you will.

  ;) 8)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2012, 08:57:41 AM »
Unfortunately, for some people, their overall disgust with all things related to patents makes them equate legitimate attempts to enforce a valid patent on something with patent trolling. An attitude which hurts legitimate inventors almost as much as the patent trolls do.

We were just trying to conserve our outrage... :)

...Sorry, couldn't resist...don't shoot me.

40hz

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2012, 09:07:32 AM »
Unfortunately, for some people, their overall disgust with all things related to patents makes them equate legitimate attempts to enforce a valid patent on something with patent trolling. An attitude which hurts legitimate inventors almost as much as the patent trolls do.

We were just trying to conserve our outrage... :)

...Sorry, couldn't resist...don't shoot me.

LOL! ;D (Good one! :Thmbsup: )

wraith808

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2012, 09:14:11 AM »
Um...Legos are not an American product even if Lego DK is very careful not to claim to have invented the interlocking toy block it is based on...

If you look at the video on the subject (produced by LEGO), they actually do go into that in exacting detail.  So it's not exactly something that they never say- just not on the site.

Arizona Hot

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 10:07:29 AM »
I think Murphy's Law applies here.


Arizona Hot

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Re: Multiple ripoffs
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2012, 02:19:52 PM »
Does the article with the screenshot below belong here or in a seperate thread? There is another different article here. Both are also attached. The text excerpts are from these files.

Eugene Francois Vidocq summary.jpg

In September 1905, the Surete Nationale exhibited a painting series with its former heads. However, the first
painting of the series showed Pierre Allard, Vidocq's successor. The newspaper L'Exclusive reported on 17
September 1905 that on obtaining information concerning the omission, they had gotten the answer that Vidocq
never had been head of the Surete.

While his written works received applause in his native France, it was actually Great
Britain that craved them. In the United Kingdom, law enforcement officers were greatly
respected, unlike French gendarmes of the time who were oft viewed as puppet figures of
a conniving monarchy.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 02:29:20 PM by Arizona Hot »