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Author Topic: Why Microsoft killed the Windows Start button  (Read 8774 times)
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 01:18:44 PM »

Actually not quite true - every PC and laptop I have seen (and that is most mainstream brands) comes by default with the power button to activate sleep mode - not shutdown. Personally I do not find sleep mode very effective - especially if someone only uses their computer occasional and/or turns off the power so I always change it to Shutdown. Laptops I change lid close from sleep to hibernate - that way if they don't turn it on for a week the battery won't die!
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db90h
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 04:31:31 PM »

Actually not quite true - every PC and laptop I have seen (and that is most mainstream brands) comes by default with the power button to activate sleep mode - not shutdown. Personally I do not find sleep mode very effective - especially if someone only uses their computer occasional and/or turns off the power so I always change it to Shutdown. Laptops I change lid close from sleep to hibernate - that way if they don't turn it on for a week the battery won't die!

I stand corrected then. I swear I don't remember changing my desktop configs to shut down on power button press, but I probably did first thing and then forgot, and assumed that was the default.

As for laptops, I only have one, and it does sleep on power button press.

Still, in ANY case, no more instant power off, which is the main point here Wink
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wiiiindy
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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2012, 11:27:28 PM »

I still use the Start button but could probably get used to alternative methods without too much problem.  99% of apps and tasks are started from the desktop or the Quick Launch bar or keyboard shortcuts.  Of course I am still on XP so I don't yet have a good feel for how big a jump Win8 will be but I see the Start button as a big deal.  However,  I still fail to see the logic of removing it unless there is an easy way to get it back you want it.

I never power down my computer so I was intrigued by the discussion of the how the power/on/off/shutdown hardware switch works.  The only time I have used it is when Windows (XP3) freezes so hard I can't recover any other way and I have always had to hold it for 3 seconds or so to get the power off.

Since my computer is 10 years old this year, I tested it.  (It's a Dell XPS bought in Feb 2002).  Sure enough a quick press on the button initiated a controlled shutdown.  So it has (potentially) worked that way for at least 10 years unbeknownst to me.

In case it is of interest to anyone, my XPS has operated flawlessly (the hardware) except for a dead DVD writer for the whole 10 years and continues to do so.  It has been running 7/24 all that time except for a few vacations.

That's probably because I would NEVER cut the power by holding in the power button or pulling the plug unless I absolutely had to!!!
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jadinolf
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« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2012, 01:52:07 PM »

Most of the time I use the Start button to stop the computer.

Just did that for the first time in years.

Should always do it. smiley

Thanks for the reminder.
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »

While the Windows H8 Metro vs. Ye old Start Button debacle has raged on I haven't really seen/heard much in the way of a why any of is was done/needed. Its really just been a lot of screw Vista Metro noise. But I ran across an article over at Neowin that actually made sense to me. Which was rather handy, as the only reason I'd gone to Neowin (which I generally never visit) was to try to make some semblance of sense out of all the waa waa waa I want my start button back screw Metro noise. So... What do you guys think of this article: Why the Start Menu needed to go

I rather liked it.
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2012, 01:11:40 PM »

While the Windows H8 Metro vs. Ye old Start Button debacle has raged on I haven't really seen/heard much in the way of a why any of is was done/needed. Its really just been a lot of screw Vista Metro noise. But I ran across an article over at Neowin that actually made sense to me. Which was rather handy, as the only reason I'd gone to Neowin (which I generally never visit) was to try to make some semblance of sense out of all the waa waa waa I want my start button back screw Metro noise. So... What do you guys think of this article: Why the Start Menu needed to go

I rather liked it.

He seems to be a bit obsessed with using the All Programs menu instead of the Start menu search box. The whole point of the Vista/Windows 7 Start menu is that is fixes having to go through the All Programs menu and having to find your programs, a problem of previous versions of Windows. Clicking on All Programs in Windows 7 should be a rare occurrence.

Also, he doesn't disagree with the #1 complaint of Metro: it is optimized for tablets and kicks desktop computers to the curb. But to him, that's a good thing.
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db90h
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« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2012, 11:40:01 PM »

Also, he doesn't disagree with the #1 complaint of Metro: it is optimized for tablets and kicks desktop computers to the curb. But to him, that's a good thing.

Yes, this is the biggest problem. Fortunately, it is not all bad ...

ONE: Metro can be docked to its own isolated monitor (thank goodness).
TWO: At least the traditional UI is still there, and looks pretty good with the control changes.

For single-screen monitors the flip back and forth between Metro when you hit the Win key to search for whatever to start or open is going to be annoying, IMHO. That's why I think FARR and others are gaining a lot of attention right now. People just want to stay in the traditional UI, not flip to a while new screen.
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daddydave
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« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 05:48:58 AM »

This graphic says it all:

If Windows were a hammer
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2012, 07:01:17 AM »

I recall being resistive (like most) to the Start Panel in XP. But after resigning myself to spending a bit of time understanding how it was supposed to do what ... I quickly discovered that I couldn't function comfortably without it. And I think the Start Screen will be much the same. Metro Annoyed the crap out of me at first. However, I have a Windows Phone and have always liked it because it is incredibly easy and intuitive to use. So with that thought in mind - and armed with a list of hot keys I typically use to navigate the Windows UI I took a run at Windows H8. 98% of what I was used to using/doing still worked just fine. Hm...

Having the All Programs menu spread out over a larger area is really quite handy for those times where one needs to find/launch a program that they (don't use frequently, and...) can't remember the name of. What is the easiest/fastest/best visual cue, the icon or the text?? Well... At my age it depends. Having the entire menu spread out  over a large area makes it much easier to use all the above at once ... Especially if one finally doesn't have to contend with the target jumping around as the auto hide (/collaps) unused menu items isn't forcing one to remember where they're at in the search for an app of some kind, that does some sort of function, that hasn't been used in a year or so (ultra/hyper/zippy something...and wtf did the icon look like again?? Damn...). I've done this on my phone enough times - Damn there it is... - to quickly appreciate the functionality of the design.

So you can't see the desktop while searching with a single screen. Okay... Are you really looking at it while searching for program X when using the Start Panel now?? No. Either you know where you're going and what your after...and are hence back is seconds (hay if it's really that critical, then you wouldn't be getting side tracked looking for other stuff then would ya?)...or you having no clue what you're looking for and quickly end up with tunnel vision focus on the tiny area of the screen you're digging through. So if the search can be done faster, by using a better vantage point ... you will ultimately end up missing less, because you can be back at it quicker.

Hay, I actually considered getting out of IT completely, just so I didn't have to contend with the silly piece of shit. But before doing anything that rash ... I figured I'd have a go at trying to understand the enemy...and he's really not a bad guy now that we've properly met...
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Tuxman
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2012, 07:08:48 AM »

This graphic says it all:

If Windows were a hammer
That pretty much sums up the OS "wars" too. An OS is a tool to master the work, not the work itself. smiley
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daddydave
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« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2012, 07:19:32 AM »

Having the All Programs menu spread out over a larger area is really quite handy for those times where one needs to find/launch a program that they (don't use frequently, and...) can't remember the name of.

Why should the UI be optimized for those less frequent cases? Would it not make more sense to optimize for the more frequent cases?

So you can't see the desktop while searching with a single screen. Okay... Are you really looking at it while searching for program X when using the Start Panel now?? No.

Maybe it is just me with my forty-something eyeballs, but I seem to have a low tolerance for extraneous eye movement when I am at my desktop computer. I don't want to have to scan to entire screen on those occasions where I don't remember the name of the program. It reminds me of the Alt-Tab thumbnails introduced in Vista, do I really need the pictures or do I just need the name and icon of the program. I used to switch this back to "Windows XP style" Alt-Tab but nowadays I just rely more on the taskbar for this reason.
 
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2012, 08:18:40 AM »

Maybe it is just me with my forty-something eyeballs, but I seem to have a low tolerance for extraneous eye movement when I am at my desktop computer. I don't want to have to scan to entire screen on those occasions where I don't remember the name of the program.

I agree and it ain't just scanning the whole screen! Only the things you choose to put there are on the Metro screen - other things have to be searched for.

If you add all your apps to the Metro screen they go on for pages (at least on my system) - who wants to scroll through pages of near identical icons to find something when you can't remember its name?
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2012, 11:31:43 AM »

Maybe it is just me with my forty-something eyeballs, but I seem to have a low tolerance for extraneous eye movement when I am at my desktop computer. I don't want to have to scan to entire screen on those occasions where I don't remember the name of the program.

I agree and it ain't just scanning the whole screen! Only the things you choose to put there are on the Metro screen - other things have to be searched for.

Not quite, There are 3 options:
(just Win) Metro = Frequent use.
Win+Q = All Programs.
Metro->Type = Search for X
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2012, 11:59:26 AM »

Nevertheless Win+Q would still spread over pages on my system (I have a lot of apps)
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« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2012, 04:39:35 PM »

Maybe it is just me with my forty-something eyeballs,

CORRECTION: I only have two eyeballs.
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tomos
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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2012, 02:59:41 AM »

Maybe it is just me with my forty-something eyeballs,

CORRECTION: I only have two eyeballs.

aaaw, that could have been a new version of the old four-eyes taunt :p cheesy
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Tom
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