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Author Topic: Why Microsoft killed the Windows Start button  (Read 8027 times)
Cloq
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« on: June 28, 2012, 03:13:37 PM »

Seriously!? Since when did people stop using the start button?

Wonder if MS realizes that they probably just screwed the business community. I can already see the chaos.

Why Microsoft killed the Windows Start button
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Renegade
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 03:16:44 PM »

Interesting. I was originally assuming that it was because they were smoking crack. Now I see that it's just because they're idiots. Learn something new every day~! tongue
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Deozaan
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 03:24:34 PM »

I almost never use the start button in Windows 7. Kind of.

To launch applications, I press the Windows Key on the keyboard, and then start typing. Or I use other keyboard shortcuts, like Win+E to open Explorer. Or Win+R for the Run command.

I pretty much only use the start button to access the control panel or other admin-like tasks. But even then I can often find it from the search, rather than navigating the start menu.
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David1904
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 05:24:39 PM »

Most of the time I use the Start button to stop the computer.
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daddydave
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 08:05:47 PM »

Most of the time I use the Start button to stop the computer.

Well, in Windows 8, that's not in the start menu any more. Shutdown is almost an Easter egg.
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Cloq
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 11:27:46 PM »

Hm.. wonder how support is going to tell a Win8 user that they need really reboot/power cycle what not their machine because the OS basically needs to clear anything that may be borked in memory.

The next gen of Windows (business/office) users are going to be very interesting.. it's hard enough right now trying to get them to understand that icons on the desktop aren't your applications...

Yah.. pull the power cable and/or remove the battery.. probably will fail thanks to the "hibernate" feature... Sooo.. hello new HD!? Special price for you.  cheesy
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tomos
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2012, 02:39:31 AM »

Most of the time I use the Start button to stop the computer.

Well, in Windows 8, that's not in the start menu any more. Shutdown is almost an Easter egg.

this seems impressivly complex:

Quote
In the Metro interface, hover your mouse over the Zoom icon that appears in the lower right corner of the screen. The Charms bar should then pop up displaying several icons. Moving your mouse up the screen will reveal the names of each icon, including Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings. Click the Settings icon and then the Power Icon. You should see three options: Sleep, Restart, and Shut down. Clicking Shut down will close Windows 8 and turn off your PC.
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Tom
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2012, 04:13:26 AM »

Since I had found the FindAndRunRobot (and replaced it by Launchy now  tongue), I have not really used the start menu anymore. ac'tivAid has been providing my shutdown dialog (Ctrl+Q) for years anyway.  cheesy

It just looks weird down there without the start button.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2012, 07:50:35 AM »

Easiest way to turn off your computer is to press the power button!
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Cloq
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2012, 08:09:09 AM »

Easiest way to turn off your computer is to press the power button!

SHHH!! Don't say that too loudly! MS might hear that.
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db90h
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2012, 08:54:51 AM »

This reporting is terrible. In my opinion, the real rationale was because it didn't mesh well Metro or touch screens. Keeping the Start menu around would have caused two divergent paths to access the PC. While it is unlikely anyone would be confused, it would not move people towards Microsoft's goal of having widespread adoption of Metro, allowing them to remain in their comfort zone. Microsoft is going to shove tiles down our throats, whether we like them or not. And maybe they aren't so bad Wink.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 09:51:48 AM »

Easiest way to turn off your computer is to press the power button!
Ever did that while the system was writing into critical files? Hint: Don't.
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 09:58:04 AM »

Easiest way to turn off your computer is to press the power button!
Ever did that while the system was writing into critical files? Hint: Don't.

Yes it is fine provided you set up your power profile to Shutdown on power button - and don't hold the button down!
It does a normal proper shutdown (just as you do from the start menu).

At least in Windows 8 you won't have to go fishing for charms and settings just to switch off!

You can bet your life non-savvy users won't get it and just pull the plug in frustration!
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db90h
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2012, 10:25:40 PM »

Easiest way to turn off your computer is to press the power button!
Ever did that while the system was writing into critical files? Hint: Don't.

The previous poster is correct. This is fine. Modern systems recognize the press of the power button and issue a 'shutdown now' command, which starts the shutdown process. The RESET button is what you don't want to hit on a desktop, and don't want to HOLD DOWN the Power button on a laptop (or desktop).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:07:40 PM by db90h » Logged
Tuxman
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 01:27:22 AM »

"Turn off" is not the same as "shutdown".
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
Carol Haynes
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 02:49:49 AM »

Really - I 'turn off' (aka as Shutdown) all my computers - including laptops by pressing the power button. It just needs a quick tap and the computer shuts down cleanly.

Pressing and holding also turns of by removing power to the motherboard - not a good idea except in extremis!
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db90h
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2012, 09:09:12 PM »

"Turn off" is not the same as "shutdown".

Umm... it isn't? What is the difference? Except for OLDER PCs, and I do mean really, really old PCs, there is no difference. Unless you speaking of maybe some Sleep mode?

Look, let's summarize:

1. PRESS Power button - Issues Shutdown command that starts the PC Shutdown process that results in an *eventual* power off. The same 'blocks' will still apply (e.g the screen that pops up saying , so and so has not saved its work, or flushing of disk caches).

2. HOLD DOWN Power button - FORCES an IMMEDIATE shutdown - UNSAFE.

3. Press Reset button (if your desktop PC even still has one) - does an immediate unsafe restart (power off, then back on).

Otherwise, we're probably just talking about different things. You may mean 'immediate power off'. To protect users from themselves, this is not as easy at it used to be. You have to hold down the power button, flip a switch on the PSU (if there is one), use the reset button (if there is one), or unplug the darn thing.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:15:25 PM by db90h » Logged
Tuxman
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2012, 09:15:13 PM »

"Turn off" = shut down OR just pull the plug. This is the difference.
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
db90h
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2012, 09:17:29 PM »

"Turn off" = shut down OR just pull the plug. This is the difference.

Right, and as I elaborate above, these days pressing the Power Off button doesn't do what it used to .. unless you are speaking of the on/off switch on the PSU (if it has one). I edited above, to clarify. I think we're just talking tomatos tomatoes. You had said, "don't press the Power Off button while writing critical files", but it doesn't turn off immediately - as of many years ago. Like I said, it issues a message to all applications, indicating a shutdown in process. Then, after all caches are flushed, files saved, etc.. proceeds with shutdown. In the case of a 'blocker', e.g. a file with unsaved work not closed, the behavior is the same as if the user had pressed 'Shutdown' via the OS interface.

How long ago did the change happen? It's been a long time now.. 10 years?

EDIT: But I do get you point, everyone does... UNSAFE, IMPROPER immediate shutdowns via IMMEDIATE loss of power is always unsafe.
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db90h
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2012, 09:27:02 PM »

Quote from: Tuxman
"Turn off" is not the same as "shutdown".

And to defend that you just said:

"Turn off" = shut down OR just pull the plug. This is the difference.

I think you meant IMPROPER shutdown. ;p As I said, tomatos tomatoes, but we all get the point. The only correction was in your statement about hitting the Power Button. It doesn't do an immediate 'turn off'.
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db90h
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2012, 09:35:25 PM »

P.S. If your POWER OFF button does NOT issue a SHUT DOWN command the SAME AS if the user had pressed 'Shut down' via the OS interface, then be sure you didn't accidentally wire it to the RESET button ;p.

EDIT: Also check BIOS settings, as sometimes there may be an option there on how to handle this.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:45:56 PM by db90h » Logged
Tuxman
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2012, 09:45:09 PM »

Your OS does not necessarily have to perform a proper shutdown when pressing the Power button. Only if it is set to.
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- @VeryGrumpyCat
db90h
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »

Your OS does not necessarily have to perform a proper shutdown when pressing the Power button. Only if it is set to.

That's true. However, I would argue that the vast majority are 'set to' these days, especially with that being the default configuration. Now, for older PCs, who knows.. and I have no idea how many are running ancient systems.

I get your point, we all do.. but by the same token, people should realize (or check to see) if their power button is the same as doing a manual shutdown. In these cases, saves a click or two ;p.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2012, 09:52:40 PM »

Requires advanced understanding of technology though. tongue
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
db90h
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2012, 10:08:39 PM »

Well, I wouldn't tell them to 'risk it' by hitting the power button ONCE and BRIEFLY and seeing what happens... BUT, if they bought their PC new any time in the last 5 years and did NOT tweak any advanced settings, then I'd be pretty confident in it working right.
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