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Author Topic: From ZDnet writer - Final Thoughts on Windows 8: A Design Disaster  (Read 6653 times)
mouser
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« on: June 16, 2012, 05:58:45 PM »

From zdnet writer:

Quote
I’ve been following Windows 8 closely over the past few months, spending a lot of time not only with the official releases but also with a number of leaked builds, and I’ve had the chance to install the operating system on a variety of hardware platforms, both old and new. However, since my primary working platform is a desktop system, this is where I’ve had the chance to spend the most time with Microsoft’s new operating system.

I’m now ready to sum up my Windows 8 experience with a single word: awful.


He later sums up with a thought that strikes as true to me:

Quote
Windows 8 wasn’t born out of a need or demand; it was born out of a desire on Microsoft’s part to exert its will on the PC industry and decide to shape it in a direction — touch and tablets — that allows it to compete against, and remain relevant in the face of Apple’s iPad..

I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware.

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Deozaan
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 06:33:22 PM »

It seems well written and the points valid.

Or rather, there seems to be only one point. That Windows 8 is really good except for one major flaw: Metro UI. Unfortunately that UI pervades the entire system and thus makes the entire thing awful--at least for non-touch devices.
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wraith808
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 06:45:24 PM »

Again, they could make this whole thing go away with one thing.  Quit calling the standard UI the "Classic Desktop" or whatever they're calling it.  Name it the "Standard Desktop" or something like that, make it the default on Desktop installations (or just have an option during the installation to choose your Desktop style), and quit trying to push it on non-mobile/non-touch devices.  From what I've seen, it works well when it's used for that purpose... it's just not a desktop shell.
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40hz
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 08:51:25 PM »

One word.

Hubris.

End of script.
 undecided
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zridling
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 10:49:42 PM »

I hated the ribbon, but I didn't realize it breaks down when using a finger. If I could use a mouse on my tablet, I would simply because my finger gets tired of the repetition, especially in forums and social network sites. And no matter how fancy various Linux window environments get, I tend to set mine to a Win7 (classic) look, which allows me maximum efficiency (1-click is better than two). Conflating desktop-tablet-phone into one UI is an idea that should have been shot down the first time it was mentioned. Microsoft's track record of every other release being a disaster is on schedule with Win8, and ironically, it's going to drive more people into the hands of Apple's closeted cult.



At least with a/n Android or Apple tablet, you not only have the "It's-a-cool-toy!" factor, but it's quite the useful toy, making you wonder how you might spend less time in front of a traditional desktop whenever you're not working.
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wraith808
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 11:56:02 AM »

Vista isn't bad, and neither was 95 at least IMO.  I loved getting away from 3.11 into 95... I was working QA at the time, and 95 made my life a *lot* easier than the morass that was 3.11.  Vista just gets a bad rap for the way that MS's hubris (to borrow 40's perfect term for MS's OS view) forced certain things on the user.  The user doesn't want to have to work around the OS, but for the OS to work for them.  Metro seems like Bob, and really shows that he who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it.
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 12:50:00 PM »


Hi Wraith,

I think the theme behind the chart was about how OS's like Win 95, and Win Vista sounded good conceptually, but had bad polish problems. I for one recall bad percentages of blue screens on win95 and did tech support for a buddy against Vista on one of those underspec'ed laptops that were in the news back then.

Meanwhile I got a Win98 machine as payment in barter for a project I did for someone, which had under 5 blue screens a year, and on that buddy's laptop I bought him a copy of Win7 myself which magically made a lot of problems go away.

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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2012, 02:58:49 PM »

To me it is amazing that Microsoft with their (intellectual and financial) resources, is not able to sustain two different versions of Window management in their Operating System environment.

Yes, that design by committee thing that MS does I see as huge deficiency in their capabilities. Apple's GUI was build by "dictator" Jobs and there is something to say for that.

[rant]
The thought of having to use touch-based devices makes my stomach turn. Mainly because I absolutely hate(!!!) people touching my LCD screen when they think they have to point something out to me. Besides that, I will not downgrade to a tablet when I can have a desktop PC.

For me it is difficult to grasp why anyone wants one. So you can take it anywhere and (only) consume content? And pay monthly fees for that besides the fee you pay for your ISP connection (which data transfer speed trumps the speed of your mobile device)? And do the consuming in any position you like?
All of the above sound (financially) unhealthy to me, it is not for nothing you have ergonomic chairs, desks, keyboards and the like.

Which is why you should use the different parts in your house for their intended purpose only. No electronics in the room where I sleep, for example. I know we (me and the missus) sleep better because of that. Same with the kitchen, you cook, eat and have dinner conversation about how the day went with wife and kids, an "electronic" recipe is not allowed there (after all, the kitchen is the area where most accidents happen and I don't see a good reason to introduce expensive gadgets to those odds).

Old-fashioned I am sure, but it actually will save you a lot of headaches by not being always connected.  
[/rant]  
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zridling
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 07:34:07 PM »

I will not downgrade to a tablet when I can have a desktop PC.
I thought the same, too, and I used a laptop for travel. But tablets got good in a hurry and, of all people, I was surprised at how useful the device could be in the field. No, it won't ever replace a desktop, though you can dock one to a keyboard and mouse, you're still not (yet) using a robust OS with it. For now, it's mainly a device made for reading, browsing, content consumption.

For me it is difficult to grasp why anyone wants one. So you can take it anywhere and (only) consume content? And pay monthly fees for that besides the fee you pay for your ISP connection (which data transfer speed trumps the speed of your mobile device)? And do the consuming in any position you like? All of the above sound (financially) unhealthy to me, it is not for nothing you have ergonomic chairs, desks, keyboards and the like.
No monthly fees unless you want it connected all the time like a phone; your current ISP connection is shared via wifi; no extra cost at all. All you need is the wifi versions (of a particular tablet) that can connect using any wifi connection; 3G or 4G connectivity is what you'll pay extra for. For your home, all that takes is switching to a wireless router, for instance, and voila! you've got wifi. Also, a tablet allows me to spend even more time in the bathroom, ha! It's also great to have a few books downloaded for offline reading when I know I'm going to be waiting on someone, on a plane, in a doctor's office, etc. I can read, play games, compose email, but most of the time in those situations you won't have a wifi connection.

Which is why you should use the different parts in your house for their intended purpose only. No electronics in the room where I sleep, for example. I know we (me and the missus) sleep better because of that. Same with the kitchen, you cook, eat and have dinner conversation about how the day went with wife and kids, an "electronic" recipe is not allowed there (after all, the kitchen is the area where most accidents happen and I don't see a good reason to introduce expensive gadgets to those odds).

Oh, I can't disagree with this at all. Put that gadget down and talk!
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wraith808
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 08:50:18 PM »

Which is why you should use the different parts in your house for their intended purpose only.

Who is to say what the intended purpose is?  By all means, if electronics is intruding too much into your space, it is good to set ground rules.  But we have such things fully integrated and parallel to our social use, i.e using the iPad instead of breaking out the board games- not to not play them, but to make them more convenient so that we can spend more time playing and less time setting up.  It's really a personal decision.
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mouser
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 12:21:45 AM »

And more:
http://betanews.com/2012/...is-like-a-bad-blind-date/
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 07:46:52 AM »

Hm... While I initially spearheaded the coining of the term Windows H8, I'm actually starting to like it. Granted I haven't (acid test) started using it full time yet, but I have spent quite a bit of time screwing with the TouchScreen test machine here at the office. If it's approached as something new...instead of a rehash of something old...it's really quite handy.
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nudone
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 07:56:51 AM »

Is Metro okay for keyboard access? Just wondering if you can flick through things quickly with just the keys.
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 08:01:21 AM »

Is Metro okay for keyboard access? Just wondering if you can flick through things quickly with just the keys.

Yes, Alt + Tab works (as expected... cheesy) in Metro.
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panzer
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 09:57:18 AM »

http://www.dedoimedo.com/...s-8-consumer-preview.html
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mouser
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 12:25:17 PM »

Nice find panzer  thumbs up

I've said it over and over and over on this forum:  Microsoft is infiltrated, from top to bottom, with saboteurs doing their best to destroy the company from within -- that is the only explanation for why they do what they do.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 02:38:06 PM »

Microsoft is infiltrated, from top to bottom, with saboteurs
It's not quite that bad — there are a just a few odd-Jobs men in core roles.
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Chris
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 05:29:54 PM »

Microsoft is infiltrated, from top to bottom, with saboteurs
It's not quite that bad — there are a just a few odd-Jobs men in core roles.

so it really does only take a few bad apples to spoil everything?
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 06:06:00 PM »

Sad Macs
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 06:53:55 AM »

This does not look like a disaster to me: http://www.microsoft.com/...urface/en/us/default.aspx
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nudone
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 07:28:30 AM »

This does not look like a disaster to me: http://www.microsoft.com/...urface/en/us/default.aspx

Oooh. It all makes sense now. A decent iPad killer. Sign me up.
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40hz
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 08:24:06 AM »

This does not look like a disaster to me: http://www.microsoft.com/...urface/en/us/default.aspx

Oooh. It all makes sense now. A decent iPad killer. Sign me up.

More like an iPad and MacBook Air one-two knockout punch if it lives up to what's written on the tin.

This in from OSNews (full article link here.)

Quote
Microsoft unveils its own tablet: Surface
posted by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jun 2012 00:10 UTC


IconSo, the Microsoft announcement - taking place as I write this, 01:45 in my timezone - turns out to be a bigger deal than expected. Microsoft just announced it's going full-on hardware - the company announced a new tablet called 'Surface', and boy, is this thing something to behold. Microsoft's hardware partners? They're not happy right now. Update: Here's Microsoft's official Surface site. I believe someone coined the phrase 'sexy as a succubus' in the comments about Vizio? Stealin' it! Update II: They aren't just taking the iPad head-on - this is a straight-up MacBook Air competitor.

Microsoft Surface is a tablet built out of PVD magnesium, with a 10.6" Gorilla Glass display. It's pretty thin (9.3mm), looks downright gorgeous, and has 'want' written all over it. There's an ARM Windows 8 RT version, and, for those of us interested in the existing software base, there's also a thicker Intel version, as powerful as any recently announced ultrabook. The Intel version will also have higher storage capacities, and digital ink and stylus support. Basically, ARM is Home, Intel is Pro.

IF this thing turns out to be half as good as it looks, I know I'll eventually end up owning one regardless of how I feel about where Microsoft is taking Windows. The fact they will be offering two keyboard cover options (3mm multitouch and 5mm tactile!!!) would be enough to make it a "tipping point" feature for me.

Bloody! I soooo HATE IT when I know they've got me... Angry

Microsoft is becoming what cigarettes used to be for me. Something regularly used despite knowing what they can ultimately do to you.

 undecided

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mouser
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 08:32:29 AM »

Let's move the new MS tablet discussion to this thread.
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