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Is Linux just a hobby?
Josh:
Once again, trolling a topic because of semantics issues.
Tuxman:
No, because of wrong things said.
40hz:
MATE is a window manager based on gnome 2 source code.
-mahesh2k (June 02, 2012, 10:32 AM)
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Gnome 2 is not a window manager.
-Tuxman (June 02, 2012, 10:35 AM)
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Acknowledged (minor) technical distinction to be sure. But it hardly matters in the context of this particular discussion. :)
Paul Keith:
MATE is not a WM or DE though. That's what most techies may underrate.
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MATE is a window manager based on gnome 2 source code. It is going to be ported on GTK3+ soon. I am tracking mate changes on github and it is DE written over gnome 2. It was forked because many old gnome 2 users wanted menu based panel navigation instead of gnome3.
-mahesh2k (June 02, 2012, 10:32 AM)
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Why didn't they port said WM or shell then from the beginning? (You know...before calling it Gnome 3)
Did no one seriously think people wouldn't want menu based panel navigation or however the techies phrases it?
Like I said, underration. There's two main philosophical need why a DM or WM or shell is made besides a hobby.
1) Someone wants to port over a better or more familiar user interface.
2) Someone wants to bring something better.
MATE was not done/is not being ported for that purpose. Worse, gnome 2 was not broken. Even worse, not many embrace it's attempt.
"Oh it's just a WM."
"Oh it's going to be ported anyway."
To quote the first paragraph of one of the first search results when you Google for Gnome 3 sucks:
http://ingeek.com/yes-gnome-3-sucks/
What a complete disaster. More troubling than the technical implications is the attitude prevalent among developers and fans of this holy new version of Gnome that we should adapt to our computers rather than have them adapt to us. A perfect example of why programmers, just like many other types of smart people, suck. They think their intelligence qualifies them to make better choices for others.
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The next paragraph also makes a case for why it is a hobby regardless whether the OP was serious or shallow or trolling in the thread:
Open source is a fantastic development model. It produces superior software at an obviously lower price, which results in a win-win situation for the consumer. I do however believe that one of the underlying causes of what I will refer to as “the Gnome 3 problem” is the simple fact that free and open source software is not market-driven to the extent that commercial software is. A commercial software firm would never dream of implementing such radical and unpopular changes especially in such a short period of time. It would be disastrous. Users would revolt with their wallets and money would be lost. Just imagine if Microsoft Windows were to completely revamp their front-end; remove desktop icons, minimize and maximize buttons, and kill the start menu. It would be suicide.
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I mean look at your reply even. You basically omitted all context only to stick with a technical semantic where you in turn get called for your technical semantic and even if the OP was serious, the essence of his title would be lost and hijacked by whether MATE is or is not a WM/DE.
mahesh2k:
Why didn't they port said WM or shell then from the beginning? (You know...before calling it Gnome 3)
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What do you mean? I didn't get you here.
Did no one seriously think people wouldn't want menu based panel navigation or however the techies phrases it?
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On touch interface menu simply don't work that is why Touch based KDE is different from desktop. Many other WM/DE are thinking about touch interface as well. So this decade is more of change for all of us. Saying it sucks doesn't cut it. I used to hate unity and gnome 3 too but it seems to be making me more productive compared to menus. In case of gnome, they wanted to make interface same for both touch and desktop. Still menu-less interface is not that bad, it's just that windows migrants feel odd using it. Mac and the long term linux are not criticizing gnome 3 as much as windows migrants do. So i don't know what are you trying to prove here with context related to "gnome 3 sucks" when almost every commercial OS has it's shortcoming which are even worst.
MATE was not done/is not being ported for that purpose.
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'
You need to read this thread to see how the gnome 3 fork MATE and cinnamon started.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11333073
This thread is from the MATE creator who ported gnome 2 on GTK3 libs on current debian builds that lets it coexist with gnome 3. Though his initial frustration with gnome 3 is now edited. You can use wayback machine to read that post if you want. It was ported because he wanted the traditional gnome 2 interface.
Like I said, underration. There's two main philosophical need why a DM or WM or shell is made besides a hobby.
1) Someone wants to port over a better or more familiar user interface.
2) Someone wants to bring something better.
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Gnome 2 is traditional interface which was inspired by old mac interface. Gnome was following mac's design practices. With gnome 3 they made many new changes in the design that doesn't go with regular desktop expectation. MATE was not ported to make it more better, it was ported because people are used to old interface.
The next paragraph also makes a case for why it is a hobby regardless whether the OP was serious or shallow or trolling in the thread:
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If you want to make any working thing hobby then nobody can stop you. Even apple and windows can be hobby and we can go on quote trolling with why windows vista sucks, why apple jaguar sucks etc. Point is that just because people don't find it usability in it or learned to fail the new technology doesn't make it hobby, it proves their inability for things.
I mean look at your reply even. You basically omitted all context only to stick with a technical semantic where you in turn get called for your technical semantic and even if the OP was serious, the essence of his title would be lost and hijacked by whether MATE is or is not a WM/DE.
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I didn't omitted context, i simply wanted to point out that MATE is now working WM/DE and is not being treated like gnome 2 fork anymore because many parts of it are rewritten. As for my replies being semantically corrected, I have noticed that member doing the same in many other threads with his own ways of trolling for finding semantic arguments which he thinks is right. So i simply ignore his comments as they lack some valuable contribution or are not meant to be helpful at all. As for your point on OP being serious, it was started as a drivel thread and he took more positive approach based on replies he got. If he were to get some replies to agree with him, this thread could have gone in more drivel than being what is currently discussed. OP was far from serious.
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