Welcome Guest.   Make a donation to an author on the site April 23, 2014, 03:05:35 PM  *

Please login or register.
Or did you miss your validation email?


Login with username and password (forgot your password?)
Why not become a lifetime supporting member of the site with a one-time donation of any amount? Your donation entitles you to a ton of additional benefits, including access to exclusive discounts and downloads, the ability to enter monthly free software drawings, and a single non-expiring license key for all of our programs.


You must sign up here before you can post and access some areas of the site. Registration is totally free and confidential.
 
Read the full one-year retrospective report on DonationCoder.com.
   
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Microsoft dropping support for Windows 8.1  (Read 956 times)
Edvard
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 2,356



View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« on: April 15, 2014, 01:08:05 AM »

Well... that escalated quickly.
(actually, it's not what you think, but what is this I don't even)

Quote
In what is surely the most customer-antagonistic move of the new Windows regime, Steve Thomas at Microsoft posted a TechNet article on Saturday stating categorically that Microsoft will no longer issue security patches for Windows 8.1, starting in May.



from Infoworld via CodeProject News
Logged

All children left unattended will be given a mocha and a puppy.
Jibz
Developer
***
Posts: 855



Cold Warrior

View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 04:15:28 AM »

If you can't get users to upgrade by adding new features, I guess forcing them to upgrade by not fixing bugs is one way to go (and getting them to subscribe monthly appears to be the other at the moment) Grin.

I sympathize with their dilemma though, they must be drowning in backwards compatibility.
Logged

"A problem, properly stated, is a problem on it's way to being solved" -Buckminster Fuller
"Multithreading is just one damn thing after, before, or simultaneous with another" -Andrei Alexandrescu
Stoic Joker
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 4,880



View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 06:36:14 AM »

Phrased another way, future updates for 8.1 will be dependent on this update being installed first. Windows 7 did the same thing with the installer 3.1 update - nothing else showed until it was done. Why is this news?
Logged
Edvard
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 2,356



View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 07:24:44 AM »

Because it's confusing as all hell...
If I follow the article correctly (there's a Minotaur around here somewhere...) apparently you have a deadline to install the Update or be locked out of future updates, which WILL show, but will be marked as non-installable.
... Unless you never installed 8.1 in the first place  huh
Logged

All children left unattended will be given a mocha and a puppy.
Stoic Joker
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 4,880



View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 11:31:37 AM »

Because it's confusing as all hell...

If by that you mean all of the hyper reactive posturing...then yes, I'm with you.

But the original blog post that started the shit storm seems to be quite clear to me.

Quote from: Shit Storm Epicenter
Since Microsoft wants to ensure that customers benefit from the best support and servicing experience and to coordinate and simplify servicing across both Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 RT and Windows 8.1, this update will be considered a new servicing/support baseline. What this means is those users who have elected to install updates manually will have 30 days to install Windows 8.1 Update  on Windows 8.1 devices; after this 30-day window - and beginning with the May Patch Tuesday, Windows 8.1 user's devices without the update installed will no longer receive security updates.

This means that Windows 8.1 users - starting patch Tuesday in May 2014 and beyond - will require this update to be installed.  If the Windows 8.1 Update is not installed, those newer updates will be considered “not applicable.”


So patches D and above are dependent on the preexistence of patch C... *Shrug* ...Like that's never happened before?? I really don't see any cause for excitement here.


This is precisely this type of over-the-top hysterical reaction on the part of the public that has fueled the governments justification for not telling us about - Roswell New Mexico - when and where the aliens have landed.
Logged
Carol Haynes
Waffles for England (patent pending)
Global Moderator
*****
Posts: 7,919



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 12:24:02 PM »

Not clear to me - I presume you can still update to the prerequisite level after that date? If you can it is no different to pulling support for Windows XP SP1 after SP2 had been released a while. Just a mandatory free update to get future support which is business as usual for MS.

If you can't even get updates to take you to the prerequisite level to allow future updates then that is mad - there are plenty of Windows 8.1 machines on the shelves in shops that won't be at that level? And is the free upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1 going to include the latest updates?
Logged

tomos
Charter Member
***
Posts: 8,067



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 03:09:26 PM »

Not clear to me - I presume you can still update to the prerequisite level after that date?

Seems to be what they're saying. But it would have been helpful if they had said that more explicitly.
Logged

Tom
TaoPhoenix
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 3,226



Making a Post, Editing it twice to make it nice.

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 05:36:49 PM »

Not clear to me - I presume you can still update to the prerequisite level after that date? If you can it is no different to pulling support for Windows XP SP1 after SP2 had been released a while. Just a mandatory free update to get future support which is business as usual for MS.

If you can't even get updates to take you to the prerequisite level to allow future updates then that is mad - there are plenty of Windows 8.1 machines on the shelves in shops that won't be at that level? And is the free upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1 going to include the latest updates?

I dunno, some of you gang support clients and you are working too hard to figure this out. Pretty scary for "medium Joes" who are still grappling with the end of XP.

Ya know, computing in the 80's with everyone's first starter machine just wasn't this hard. "Company sold products. Consumers took their pick of five that they wanted. Then the deal was done".

I liked the simplicity of MS's screwup of Vista that Made WinXP and later Win7 the easy path to take. Now we both have to deal with Win8/Non-Metro's mess and another round of temporary destructible upgrade paths. It's just making the XP-Holdout option stronger until gawd help me Win9 ... is a win.

Logged
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 9,871



A'Tuin

see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 06:47:11 PM »

So patches D and above are dependent on the preexistence of patch C... *Shrug* ...Like that's never happened before?? I really don't see any cause for excitement here.



I'm gonna have to agree with SJ here. It's happened before. So why is this considered news? huh Required prior update dependencies are a fact of life with software upgrades. Even in Linux. Some stuff just needs to be there before something else can be added or updated. True, the announcement was somewhat tortuously worded. But it was no big deal about what was being said. And hardly cause for it to be as broadly (mis?)interpreted as it was.
Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Innuendo
Charter Member
***
Posts: 1,856

View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 08:43:26 PM »

Ya know, computing in the 80's with everyone's first starter machine just wasn't this hard. "Company sold products. Consumers took their pick of five that they wanted. Then the deal was done".

Are you kidding me? Back then if you needed a patch for your OS or agame...or a device driver you were either on the phone paying Ma Bell out the butt for long-distance charges or you were on an online service like CompuServ paying $6/hour...at 300 baud!

Even then there was no guarantee what you downloaded was going to fix your problem. And if it didn't, you were still out the money.
Logged
Edvard
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 2,356



View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 11:11:49 PM »

OK, so maybe I mis-interpreted what was said; throw me a bone here:

Quote
... those users who have elected to install updates manually will have 30 days to install Windows 8.1 Update on Windows 8.1 devices; after this 30-day window - and beginning with the May Patch Tuesday, Windows 8.1 user's devices without the update installed will no longer receive security updates.

Ok, here's how I understand it.  It seems to be saying that if you have updated to 8.1, there is a 30-day time window in which you will need to upgrade to 8.1 Update 1, and if you don't, you will no longer be able to receive any updates including the all-important Update 1.  In other words, if you somehow miss the deadline, your 8.1 is and will always be dead to future updates.  Or did I err?  huh

I totally get that some things need to be installed before other things. Duh. I get that in Linux every other day, I got that SP1 needed to be installed before SP2 (or was it SP3?) in XP, I get that.  It wouldn't be news if that's all that was going on.  Got it.  What I don't understand is why put a deadline on it?  Why not just make it like any other update that you install as you go and life goes on?  And why let plain ol' Win 8 stroll on it's merry way?  Please tell me I'm wrong and I'll forget this whole post, because if it is true as I've interpreted it... I have no words to describe how insane that seems.

And here's the other hitch: this update has been proven so problematic that MS had to pull it from WSUS because it prevents corporate users from receiving future updates:
http://www.bit-tech.net/n.../windows-blue-81-pulled/1
AND quite a number of folks have reported problems with the installer:
http://www.neowin.net/new...fixes-but-problems-remain
http://www.bit-tech.net/n...14/04/14/win81-update-1/1


So, it seems this issue is causing headaches and consternation with more than just internet talking-heads, and that's why it's news.
If Update 1 is going to be available forever, not just inside the 30-day window, then I'll admit I'm wrong, and this is just fallout of people being cranky about learning a new Windows version and updates not installing properly.  
Nothing new to see here... business as usual... move along...
Logged

All children left unattended will be given a mocha and a puppy.
TaoPhoenix
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 3,226



Making a Post, Editing it twice to make it nice.

see users location on a map View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 12:26:42 AM »

Ya know, computing in the 80's with everyone's first starter machine just wasn't this hard. "Company sold products. Consumers took their pick of five that they wanted. Then the deal was done".

Are you kidding me? Back then if you needed a patch for your OS or agame...or a device driver you were either on the phone paying Ma Bell out the butt for long-distance charges or you were on an online service like CompuServ paying $6/hour...at 300 baud!

Even then there was no guarantee what you downloaded was going to fix your problem. And if it didn't, you were still out the money.

Naw, not kidding at all. A better way to put it is that without these multiple semi-redundant blogs/services, news simply didn't get out at all. Our family treated each machine like a disposable commodity - it either did whatever it did or three years later the newer flashier one had it baked in. It was a far different "paradigm" from what is going on now.

Another way to put it is that as a family pretty heavily on the Mac track early on, we didn't know about complicated 30 day prerequisite timelines to 0.1 Update 1's to early OS's. They just did whatever they did. So update to System 7 - yay. Then by the time you cared about System 8 (and Apple's Dark Period) a new machine already gave you all that goodness.

Logged
mwb1100
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,229


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 12:54:39 AM »

It seems to be saying that if you have updated to 8.1, there is a 30-day time window in which you will need to upgrade to 8.1 Update 1, and if you don't, you will no longer be able to receive any updates including the all-important Update 1.  In other words, if you somehow miss the deadline, your 8.1 is and will always be dead to future updates.  Or did I err?

I agree that the various postings seem confusing. I believe that KB2919355 Update will continue to be offered for installation to Win 8.1 users via Windows Update.  If for some reason this doesn't occur for you, then you can download it manually by searching for KB2919355 at the download  center. For example, it is included in the April 2014 Update ISO:

  - http://www.microsoft.com/...oad/details.aspx?id=42520


Logged
40hz
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 9,871



A'Tuin

see users location on a map View Profile Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 05:35:05 AM »

OK, so maybe I mis-interpreted what was said; throw me a bone here:
.
.
.
So, it seems this issue is causing headaches and consternation with more than just internet talking-heads, and that's why it's news.
If Update 1 is going to be available forever, not just inside the 30-day window, then I'll admit I'm wrong, and this is just fallout of people being cranky about learning a new Windows version and updates not installing properly. 
Nothing new to see here... business as usual... move along...

You're absolutely right. It is confusing the way they announced this. (I got client calls yesterday.) My understanding is that there's a 30-day grace period to get the requisite update installed, not that it will only be made available for 30 days.

Sometimes Microsoft is it's own biggest problem. Wink
Logged

Don't you see? It's turtles all the way down!
Stoic Joker
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 4,880



View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 06:59:16 AM »

And here's the other hitch: this update has been proven so problematic that MS had to pull it from WSUS because it prevents corporate users from receiving future updates:
http://www.bit-tech.net/n.../windows-blue-81-pulled/1
AND quite a number of folks have reported problems with the installer:
http://www.neowin.net/new...fixes-but-problems-remain
http://www.bit-tech.net/n...14/04/14/win81-update-1/1

Not exactly, here's a very key point from the bit-tech article that actually manages to very succinctly explain everything...if folks just take a minute to let it sink in.

Quote
Although the flaw only affects servers running encrypted HTTPS connections, which is not the default, but with the latest TLS 1.2 functionality disabled, which is the default, the flaw is serious enough for the update to be removed from distribution. Although it will still be available through Windows Update for home users, WSUS administrators are asked to wait for an updated version to be released; those who have already deployed the flawed update can either enable TLS 1.2 if running WSUS on Windows Server 2008 R2 or disable HTTPS altogether if running on any other platform.

Oh dear...what else has been in the news lately causing a big kerfuffle about TLS v1.2??


To me this translates into: If you've been living in a cave while running SSL on IIS, and therefore haven't done any proactive HeartBleed tuning then this patch will punish you for your apathy by breaking your web server.

*Shrug* Perhaps there are just a lot of Windows admins out there that feel that this is really just an apache problem so there is no reason to believe this is a possible start of Code Red the sequel.
Logged
wraith808
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 5,815



"In my dreams, I always do it right."

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 08:24:12 AM »

OK, so maybe I mis-interpreted what was said; throw me a bone here:

Quote
... those users who have elected to install updates manually will have 30 days to install Windows 8.1 Update on Windows 8.1 devices; after this 30-day window - and beginning with the May Patch Tuesday, Windows 8.1 user's devices without the update installed will no longer receive security updates.

Ok, here's how I understand it.  It seems to be saying that if you have updated to 8.1, there is a 30-day time window in which you will need to upgrade to 8.1 Update 1, and if you don't, you will no longer be able to receive any updates including the all-important Update 1.  In other words, if you somehow miss the deadline, your 8.1 is and will always be dead to future updates.  Or did I err?

Yes, you erred.  After the deadline, windows 8.1. will be blocked to windows updates.  You can update to something other than 8.1 (i.e. putting the SP on) and then be able to update.  But plain vanilla one will not be able to get other windows updates.
Logged

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  

DonationCoder.com | About Us
DonationCoder.com Forum | Powered by SMF
[ Page time: 0.055s | Server load: 0.38 ]