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Author Topic: Congratulations on meeting (or nearly meeting) your fund raising goal  (Read 15235 times)
db90h
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« on: April 14, 2012, 09:15:02 AM »

Congratulations on meeting (or nearly meeting) your fund raising goal!

I must admit that I am surprised by the generosity shown to DonationCoder. My experiences in the F/OSS world have shown me that a simple 'Donate' button doesn't do it. To get donations you must be truly engaged with those people in a pretty intimate way. I would be curious to know the frequency of 'large' donations, vs a bunch of small donations, but I know that's private info Wink. It just amazes me.  It's contradictory to this mucked up capitalist world, and I have to give you credit for pulling it off and not compromising on your principles. Of course, I haven't compromised on my principles either, but I have had to charge a modest fee for extended capabilities of my software rather than solicit donations. I am not sure I would survive if I tried your approach - too few people like me on a 'personal' level ;p. The few who do like me I tend to drive away at some point or another.

Anyway, congratulations ... That's not a small number, at least not to me. It's an amazing number.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 09:49:26 AM by db90h » Logged
nosh
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 09:38:59 AM »

Quote
The few who do like me I tend to drive away at some point or another
.

It's like I have a twin!  Thmbsup

donotcrack, welcome to DC! (Lol @ the nick!  cheesy)
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 09:54:23 AM »

Congratulations on meeting (or nearly meeting) your fund raising goal!

I must admit that I am surprised by the generosity shown to DonationCoder. My experiences in the F/OSS world have shown me that a simple 'Donate' button doesn't do it. To get donations you must be truly engaged with those people in a pretty intimate way. I would be curious to know the frequency of 'large' donations, vs a bunch of small donations, but I know that's private info Wink. It just amazes me.  It's contradictory to this mucked up capitalist world, and I have to give you credit for pulling it off and not compromising on your principles. Of course, I haven't compromised on my principles either, but I have had to charge a modest fee for software rather than solicit donations. I am not sure I would survive if I tried your approach - too few people like me on a 'personal' level ;p. The few who do like me I tend to drive away at some point or another.

Anyway, congratulations ... That's not a small number, at least not to me. It's an amazing number.

There's some important differences here vs a traditional donate.
1. Multi donation processors. I despise Paypal; and that's the polite version!  smiley I am willing to consider (and did) donating, without it becoming a fight between the receiver vs having to deal with Paypal. So here, I used Kagi, and it went fine. I've seen Plimus elsewhere too. They seem okay.

2. Multi value. There's a little bit of a different feel when it's just 1 guy doing a thing, yeah it's helpful to donate, but soon you're out $300 by the time you're done. Here, while the choice of programs has a couple of gaps, the coders are usually actively responding to pests like me!  Grin So it's like an entrance badge to a slightly crazed carnival. Then in between playing with the apps, the discussions have some of the best comments I've seen, the troll control is very good, and it doesn't have the junk-post 10-year memes of places like slashdot. (Which is also in my top 5.)

3. Meanwhile, the "donation spread" isn't 100% private - this is the age of the internet gang, and before you jump all over me for being Captain Obvious, what the internet does best is Long Tails. So follow me here - we just had this giant bar telling us how much money came in... are you telling me that not one of DC's 100,000 members made a chart? "Gentle Obscurity" is a Pre-Internet notion! : )
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db90h
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 09:59:45 AM »

Interesting TaoPhoenix, thanks for explaining what makes the difference for you - and likely most everyone else. I'm not sure how many other active developers there really are here besides Mouser, but I know there are a few willing to pick up odd jobs. That's been one of the goals DC hasn't accomplished, to be honest -- in that attracting other developers would require some sort of donation distribution system. Or has this been tackled via direct donations to specific developers?

As you say, the Forum content and community is a good one. Troll control is indeed *very* important too.. they can kill an entire forum very easily.

@nosh - I suspect we're not the only ones with such an affliction ;p.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 10:37:29 AM by db90h » Logged
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 10:13:41 AM »

Interesting TaoPhoenix, thanks for explaining what makes the difference for you - and likely most everyone else. I'm not sure how many other active developers there really are here besides Mouser, but I know there are a few willing to pick up odd jobs. That's been one of the goals DC hasn't accomplished, to be honest -- in that attracting other developers would require some sort of donation distribution system. Or has this been tackled via direct donations to specific developers?

As you say, the Forum content and community is a good one. Troll control is indeed *very* important too.. they can kill an entire forum very easily.

@nosh - I suspect we're not the only ones with such an affliction ;p.


Well, less'ee - the donation system lets you both put moolah into the general fund for server costs etc, or parcel it out to specific people. (Mouser, can it be any member at all? Or just "registered developers?") This segues into my next topic:

"Active Developers" - in a sense, any time you see any NANY entry, any "announce my software" entry, and any bugfix, that's active development. It's fine that "some are more active than others". I can say that I paid equal parts to Mouser, Skwire, and Kyrathaba from my donation. I've chatted with Anand on a couple of his apps. MilesAhead is looking into a bug for me on his app. I've probably crossed paths with a couple more devs here at lesser levels.

Meanwhile, in the "Odd Job" dept, I know my suggested price ranges have been low, but I think the current big hole is what I've been calling "Coding Lunch Commissions" - bigger than the "Snack", but we can't normally afford y'all's professional rates either. My quick instinct is to make a commission a minimum of $50, with a little room for more, and try to "minimax" the feature set - I always ask "This sounds simple, but is it in fact damn hard?". Rule of honor is to try not to crush the guy with a single 500-hour feature. So I don't yet have the economics of that mastered yet, but I'm always willing to listen to/for volunteers.
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db90h
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 10:20:48 AM »

Ah, yes, what was I thinking.. of course we can transfer credits from one person to another. People have sent me credits in the past, and I've sent credits to other members, forgot all about that ;p. <SLAP> I musta tripped back 10 years ago in my mind, as I remember discussing this way back when. NOW I understand why people were telling me to release that early RegMerge alpha as a NANY submission.. I didn't see the point. Now I do.

I am not sure I understand fully #3 ...

Quote
3. Meanwhile, the "donation spread" isn't 100% private - this is the age of the internet gang, and before you jump all over me for being Captain Obvious, what the internet does best is Long Tails. So follow me here - we just had this giant bar telling us how much money came in... are you telling me that not one of DC's 100,000 members made a chart? "Gentle Obscurity" is a Pre-Internet notion! : )

Is this a solicitation to make such a chart (not showing member names, but donation amounts, and average donation amounts) ... or am I missing something else obvious? ;p
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 10:27:23 AM »

I presume you've seen that great thermometer up above?  Grin

I would be curious to know the frequency of 'large' donations, vs a bunch of small donations...

Drawing upon my penchant for semi-science, "When there is info to be tracked, as the number of users/visitors increases, the probability that someone is/has tracked it increases. A sample concept formula is ((interest of participants)*(type of data to be tracked)*(rewards for tracking including satisfaction)) / (Some constant that weeds out the number of people who don't wish to bother.)  Cool

So what you're really asking, since there's a 73.1415926% chance someone has already made the chart, is "Will the real DC Shady Please Stand Up, Please Stand Up!"  cheesy
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db90h
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 10:37:00 AM »

Oh, I see... Sure, I noticed the chart, and can certainly divide Wink .. but that doesn't really tell me anything significant, as I'd guess 95% of registered users are not even active (with most registering, or being involved for a short period, then not returning).

EDIT: I guess I could poll the page and attempt to determine the average donation amount based on updates to the chart, lol. However, I don't care THAT much, hehe. I was just curious if there were any ... wealthy contributors. Let's put it that way.
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 10:38:58 AM »

No, not divide - record every change in the chart since day 1!

You know, it went up these little amounts! So the advanced math you need is subtraction!  

"$837 today at 1PM, it was $805 at 12:37..." Grin

But yes, that doesn't tell you the subscriber base. But it does capture every donation for two weeks (sample bias etc etc.)
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db90h
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 10:39:38 AM »

Yes, I was updating my post as you were posting, darned it ;p. I finally got your meaning, lol.

Of course, there is the issue of concurrent donations.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 10:50:21 AM by db90h » Logged
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 10:40:12 AM »

Yes, I was updating my post as you were posting, darned it ;p. I finally got your meaning, lol.

Whee!
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db90h
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 10:45:15 AM »

If there is a real slim shady, do please stand up, lol. Love the way you put that Wink.

Freaking guy just knocked at my door, setting off my wife's insane little dog.. naturally, an invitation to church. ARGH!
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 10:45:49 AM »

Yes, I was updating my post as you were posting, darned it ;p. I finally got your meaning, lol.

EDIT: And I'm in that constant of people who don't bother..

So, yea, who has done this? Anyone? I think you over-rated the liklihood anyone did. Of course, there is the issue of concurrent donations.

I almost did! But I figured someone else was! Don't tell me that I'm the only one who even thought about it! Lil' ol' me isn't that unique!
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db90h
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 10:47:15 AM »

Whew, sorry to double post (with an edit, then a repost of content) .. that bible guy got me all interrupted and I lost my train I thought. Man I *hate* it when they show up at your door. They don't just 'go away' either. The nicer you are, the more they talk .. and talk .. and talk .. and talk...

EDIT: Please don't reply to that, we'll get off topic ;p
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 10:49:51 AM »

Remember my equation? "rewards for tracking..."

"$50 reward for the first perfect chart that didn't get from a site admin!"  tongue

(I'm not paying, but you get the idea!)

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db90h
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2012, 10:52:48 AM »

Indeed! You know, for a quick formula, that was a pretty good one Wink. Anyway, back to work.. I fear I've flooded this thread and Mouser, or anybody for that matter, will not appreciate it. I have *always* been very impressed by this site - what I consider to be a unique oddity in this capitalist world. I mean, freeware and donationware is nothing new, but this SITE as a whole actually WORKS at generating revenue. To me, that's intriguing.

Honestly, when DC was founded, I would have *never* guessed it could generate that kind of revenue.. but I have been proven wrong.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 10:59:36 AM by db90h » Logged
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2012, 10:55:06 AM »

It's been fun chatting! And we have no reason to fear the MouserMonster because we stayed on topic!

Plus we got to talk about ... (Truman Show Closeup)

*Giving DonationCoder.com More Money! Because it makes better global citizens for us all!*  cheesy

After all, the donation bar stands at $6,739! Only $261 lonely dollars to finish it off! But hurry! The fundraiser ends tomorrow? Won't someone Think Of The Coders?"

Edit: Heh okay, I'll shaddup now!
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mouser
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2012, 10:55:46 AM »

Heads up: I'm going to split this discussion of donations off into a separate thread from the newsletter.
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db90h
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2012, 11:00:02 AM »

Please do, sorry mouser.
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mouser
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2012, 11:07:47 AM »

No worries, splitting of a topic is just a good solution when we have two long discussions on different topics in one thread.  Splitting it just makes it easier for people to talk on either issue.
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2012, 11:11:24 AM »

I don't have a chart, but for the curious, there have been a total of 363 donations to the fundraiser.
That puts the average donation at a littler under $20.
Highest donation was $200, lowest was 1 penny.

I think the story/lesson of DC is what it's always been -- it's in the eye of the beholder.

If you think about the millions of downloads of the software every year, or the kickstarter or indiebundle things we read about, then 363 people choosing to donate during a two-week fundraiser may not look that great.

But on the other hand if you think of it in the context of software actually being supported by voluntary donations from the user base, i think we can hold our heads high and be proud -- it's a very rare thing to get any donations at all.  It's a nice feeling to be appreciated and supported but most of all it's just wonderful to be around people who are interesting and inspiring and fun.  I think there is a lot to be said for staying small and personal, and that's how we like it.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:22:06 AM by mouser » Logged
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2012, 11:14:11 AM »


Heh was the 1 penny a reference to that "destroy DC with penny donations" thread a while back? : )
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2012, 11:16:06 AM »


Plus we got to talk about ... (Truman Show Closeup)

*Giving DonationCoder.com More Money! Because it makes better global citizens for us all!*  cheesy

After all, the donation bar stands at $6,739! Only $261 lonely dollars to finish it off! But hurry! The fundraiser ends tomorrow? Won't someone Think Of The Coders?"


And someone did! The bar is at $6,762 now! The big bashful eyes of Cody are working!
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db90h
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 11:25:17 AM »

Mouser, I think you are underestimating your own success. Sure, if you compare yourself to a company that has actual employees, you aren't generating much revenue... but you aren't a company with employees. Therefore, DonationCoder is extremely successful. That is why I was curious as to the mechanism behind this. I do suspect that there are a substantial number of repeat donators - a revenue generation user base, if you will. Yes, I know, you don't like words like 'revenue'.. but that's what it is.

So, I'd say in the eyes of any beholder it is a success, given what it is, and the resources through which it is run. EDIT: Well, that's pretty much what you said I guess Wink
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2012, 11:28:30 AM »

Here we go! (Launches into a thundering parody of Ray Stevens Shriner's Convention!)

Weeeeeel, the countdown on the last day of the fundraiser roars on! Money is flowing, goodwill is spilling, and Cody works the crowd! Donations are churning from the crowd, and then Cody flies out for a mile! It's a unique global phenomenon where all the members have a fine ol' time!

It's the 7th annual convention of the grand mystic congregation of the Coders of our time!

Well it was all arranged by the Mousy Mastermind, and the new CMS will make the local hearts swell with pride! And when the hearts swell, the bar swells from $6,762 to $6,767, with more to come!

It's the 7th annual convention of the grand mystic congregation of the Coders of our time!
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