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Carol Haynes:
There was a very good series on the BBC a while ago about the political exploitation of fear to justify any power grab politicians want.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
You may be able to find it online somewhere. I found it rather frightening but really quite convincing too.
Interesting quote (does it remind anyone of any countries in recent years?):
Renegade:
@IainB - Sorry. It was not my intent to attack there or anything of the sort. This is one of those topics where I'm pretty much constitutionally incapable of holding back much. (Though I still do quite a bit -- let's all be thankful that I don't say what I really think. ;D )
@Carol - I LOVE that quote. It's too bad that so many people don't understand that while Goering was an evil SOB, he certainly wasn't stupid, and they would do well to heed some of his words.
Here's a little tidbit back on topic:
21 Signs That The UK Is Being Transformed Into A Hellish Big Brother Surveillance Society
Some very good points in there along with lots of links to relevant resources and more information on the topic.
FAIR WARNING: If you prefer to stay asleep, don't click the above link. Ignorance = strength. ;) (Yeah... I'm totally baiting/daring you there~! ;) )
Here's a quick excerpt:
The madness going on in the UK is where the rest of the world is headed. Right now, there are more surveillance cameras per capita in the UK than anywhere else in the world. If you accidentally drop a couple of potato chips in public, or if you whisper a phrase that is not politically correct in a restaurant there is a good chance that you will be hauled into court. In the UK, the public has been sold the lie that society will be better off if everything and everyone is constantly monitored. But instead of improving society, what all of this surveillance is really doing is turning the entire nation into a very frightening version of George Orwell's 1984.
...
#13 Parents at one school in the UK were forced to undergo criminal background checks to prove that they were not pedophiles before they were allowed to accompany their own children to school Christmas events.
...
#17 In the UK, it is now illegal to photograph the police for any reason whatsoever.
--- End quote ---
There's more utterly insane, wonky stuff in there. Get your barf-bag, because if you love freedom and liberty, and are in any way averse to being enslaved under a totalitarian police state, you're going to vomit.
4wd:
21 Signs That The UK Is Being Transformed Into A Hellish Big Brother Surveillance Society-Renegade (April 02, 2012, 08:19 PM)
--- End quote ---
Regarding #6, while it's undoubtedly true that the UK has more CCTV per capita than any other country, the statistics they use, (from a survey in ~2005), to arrive at the quoted figures are open to scrutiny.
Another view of those figures: FactCheck: how many CCTV cameras?
And #19 is just plain bullsh!t. She is not working in her garden, she is working on a public village flowerbed. As such she is bound by the same OHS directives that council workers/tradespeople/etc are.
mahesh2k:
Have you been watching what has happened over the last couple of decades in the US and UK? Almost all politicians are under the financial (and hence political) control of somebody else, and if they remain too independent their own political parties treat them as too hot to handle and through them to the wolves.
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That is not just the case of US but almost every country in Europe/Asia. Political tricks are often emulated across the pond by all of these politicians. You have heard about RIAA/MPAA's impact in music/movie industry in India (and some other countries in asia). All the movie studios and labels owned or in partnership with some of the US based brands (Like Time warner, 21st century fox etc) are forcing to bring censorship on net in order to control their business. As for politicians, we have same situations here, each party has their own agenda and they try to push something that benefits their lobby.
The reason I said there are people who bring this to public is because it is easy to become hero by exposing each other for their acts and gain votes or win 5 minutes of fame. So not only politicians but media and some of the NGO's bring such to public's attention for their own benefit. They get their fame or money from the lobbies and after some time we all forget some of these policies and adapt to it.
As for patriotic act, you can't asses that issue from neutral ground anymore after so much involvement of that country in middle east and almost every other islamic country. If they don't pass that act and let any random tom-dick-harry to pass through their country and do his/her thing then normal citizens of america are in danger. Why? because often terrorists target normal people and not politicians to make their point or to grab attention. Though I hate that patriotic act, it's necessary evil which lobbyist and politicians are pushing because of their own messed up situation and for profit. Soon, America will be under birdcage of their own restrictive policies and fear culture and if not, they'll be targeted by people they pissed off in middle east. And it's not even made-up situation by FBI anymore, to some extent there are groups working to harm united states. Even in India, when 26/11 happened, terrorists were after American and British citizens and they spared people from other countries. That tells me everything about the other side of fence.
Last thought - in any western countries these days if you want to get legislation passed you just cite public safety and terrorism as a mantra!
--- End quote ---
Not true. Legislation is passed with or without public interest. Legislations are passed to the large extent due to lobby interests. SOPA is the only legislation that was opposed all over the globe due to it's impact on American economy (directly or indirectly) and that's why RIAA/MPAA lobby failed to convince other business lobbies for that act. You know the result right? You're assuming that large percentage of Americans are conservatives and that's why terrorism mantra works and that is far from truth. Many liberals, non-liberal-non-conservative crowd is moving away from these type of claims. You know why ron paul is developing some followings? He wants to legalize marijuna, oppose sopa and every other white-collar issues that are ignored by republicans and other liberal parties. The reason obama won last time because he was *not* bush and people never wanted that war. Obama delivered that and there is no direct signs of war with any country today( though some random clashes do exist but no panic signs). The problem with developed nations like united states is that infrastructure and social development issues are negligible and for that reason politicians create artificial problems like - gays in military, prayers in school, Dream of America as a Christian nation, war with terrorism and intellectual property rights issues.
Do you know Santorum made deal with some random SEO agency(as per SEOMoz) for positive reviews across the Internet. Don't be surprised if tomorrow Google or any other SE gets sold with billion of dollars deal to screen negative reviews for these politicians or even get ISP's to block such websites. That is the future, I don't want to see.
Renegade:
Regarding #6, while it's undoubtedly true that the UK has more CCTV per capita than any other country, the statistics they use, (from a survey in ~2005), to arrive at the quoted figures are open to scrutiny.
-4wd (April 03, 2012, 12:49 AM)
--- End quote ---
6 of one. It's a buttload of cameras. Who really cares if it's 3 or 4 or 5 million? The point is that it's a surveillance state.
Another view of those figures: FactCheck: how many CCTV cameras?
-4wd (April 03, 2012, 12:49 AM)
--- End quote ---
Sure. Could be. I don't think that the exact number is really that important. It's kind of like arguing over how many bullet holes you see in a corpse. The point there is the guy is dead. :P
And #19 is just plain bullsh!t. She is not working in her garden, she is working on a public village flowerbed. As such she is bound by the same OHS directives that council workers/tradespeople/etc are.
-4wd (April 03, 2012, 12:49 AM)
--- End quote ---
Not so sure... The point I get there is that the council is full of control freaks.
Like seriously... You have a little old lady doing some free gardening for you... and you want to what?!?
The increase of rules and regulations is a sure sign of a police state. This is merely a small symptom - city bureaucrats j***ing off on a power trip.
At some point it's ok to be sane. This is a clear case of "don't look a gift horse in the mouth".
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