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Author Topic: Linus Torvalds on OpenSUSE  (Read 4547 times)
xtabber
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« on: March 01, 2012, 03:21:12 PM »

From Linus Torvalds' Google+ blog:

I gave OpenSUSE a try, because it worked so well at install-time on the Macbook Air, but I have to say, I've had enough. There is no way in hell I can honestly suggest that to anybody else any more.

I first spent weeks arguing on a bugzilla that the security policy of requiring the root password for changing the timezone and adding a new wireless network was moronic and wrong.

I think the wireless network thing finally did get fixed, but the timezone never did - it still asks for the admin password.

And today Daniela calls me from school, because she can't add the school printer without the admin password.

Whoever moron thought that it's "good security" to require the root password for everyday things like this is mentally diseased.

So here's a plea: if you have anything to do with security in a distro, and think that my kids (replace "my kids" with "sales people on the road" if you think your main customers are businesses) need to have the root password to access some wireless network, or to be able to print out a paper, or to change the date-and-time settings, please just kill yourself now. The world will be a better place.

.. and now I need to find a new distro that actually works on the Macbook Air.
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mahesh2k
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 04:31:12 PM »

Seriously? ....  huh guy who wrote the kernel posted that?

I have to disagree with him. Password for every critical system change is nice security feature, otherwise you always have windows. I guess he's infected with one-button apple logic.  cheesy
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4wd
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 05:17:47 PM »

I think he's got a valid point about just being able to actually use a laptop like it was intended - as a portable work tool.

Do you think it's better for your employees to perpetually ring up your IT guys just so they can use the WiFi or business facilities in whatever hotel or airport they happen to be in?

How are the IT guys going to allow access to a WiFi network anyway if they have no remote connection?

What will happen is the IT guys will give one of the sales guys the password so he can add a printer while he's sitting in the business centre in the Hyatt Regency, that sales guy will tell his fellow sales people.
Pretty soon one of them will try to add a game or some malware will pop up asking for permission to do something and the sales people not being as knowledgeable as the IT guys will give it permission.

And thus, the scenario the IT guys try to avoid.

Requiring a password to perform just those three things has crippled the original function of the device.  Especially when the only way to overcome them is to send an IT guy out to your globe-trotting employee to add a printer or give the roving employee the admin password.

NOTE: I don't use any Linux distro, so be warned, I could be talking out of my fundamental.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 06:01:21 PM by 4wd » Logged

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iphigenie
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 11:09:11 AM »

Seriously? ....  huh guy who wrote the kernel posted that?
I have to disagree with him. Password for every critical system change is nice security feature, otherwise you always have windows. I guess he's infected with one-button apple logic.  cheesy

Well the point then is: adding a printer or joining a hotel wifi, or switching timezone when travelling should not be considered a critical system change, and then we're all in agreement
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zridling
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 06:01:28 PM »

What mahesh2k said. KDE does not require a password to change the timezone in openSUSE. This makes sense when you're lugging a laptop across the country. Linus has long been a Fedora/Gnome guy. Better, why should a user be able to change the system time on a computer; that's for the admin (owner) to do. So why is he blaming openSUSE? Further, since Linus is a command line guy, just manually edit etc/passwd and make all the users to uid 0. Problem solved.
_____________________________________
Some comments that made me LOL:
- My father killed himself because of this post, you ass!
- Who the hell spends the money on a Macbook Air to install GNU/Linux on it?
- Are you really Linus Torvalds?
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- zaine (on Google+)
4wd
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 12:06:51 AM »

Better, why should a user be able to change the system time on a computer; that's for the admin (owner) to do.

He's doesn't mention the system time at all, just the timezone - responses following his initial post muddle up the difference.
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40hz
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 12:50:04 PM »

Linus Torvaldes is apparently much more knowledgeable about the Linux (i.e. kernal) part of the GNU/Linux equation than he is about the GNU (userland/userspace) part.

C'mon Linus, really? Having to enter a password one time too often got you so bent out of shape that you had to walk away from a distro? Just elevate your user level and be done with it. Or set the admin password to a single space character so you can hit <SPACE><ENTER> any time it asks for one.

Sheesh! undecided
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 08:12:07 PM »

Or set the admin password to a single space character so you can hit <SPACE><ENTER> any time it asks for one.

Sheesh! undecided

HAHAHAHAHAHAH~! Grin

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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 09:42:38 AM »

I'm not a Linux user, but are there any tools similar to the Group Policy Editor, etc. that are on Windows? You could lock a Windows install down so tight that you'd need admin access to change the time there as well, but it is all configurable.

Doesn't Linux offer anything like that?
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Tuxman
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 10:01:44 AM »

Linus is right about openSUSE's general being messed up, at least.
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 10:51:16 AM »

Just run as root.  All the kewl kids are doing it.  Wink

VLC will not let you play movies as root.  undecided
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 11:11:25 AM »

Doesn't Linux offer anything like that?

It does. You can.

Which is why I'm wondering where Linus-T is coming from with this. undecided
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40hz
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 11:23:57 AM »

Linus is right about openSUSE's general being messed up, at least.

Not really. It's a very nice distro. More polished than most in fact.

But it's also openly geared towards a business/corporate rather than a home/personal user. So it incorporates a lot of enterprise mindset. And it's default security settings reflect that mentality. (They can always be turned off BTW.)

Linus probably went with Suse because they've been long-time champions of the KDE desktop, and well known for their elegant implementation of same. KDE is something Linus has gone on record for preferring over Gnome, which he's called 'braindead' on more than one occasion.

Dunno. It's always weird (to me) to see somebody with Linus's technical acumen freaking out over something the average Linux user briefly grumbles about before they change some settings and get on with life. So Torvalds' comments smack just a bit of acting like a 'Rock Star' and silly posturing to me.

But who knows? Linus has been known to display a touch of temper at times. Maybe he was just having a bad day?

Still, he is a god... of sorts. Which means anything Linus Torvalds says is automatically "news."
 
Onward! Cool  Thmbsup
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 12:07:09 PM by 40hz » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 12:38:07 PM »

It does. You can.

Which is why I'm wondering where Linus-T is coming from with this. undecided

Here I thought I was just missing someting.

I just checked Google...he's only 42 years old. That's way too young to be turning into a grumpy old man.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 01:29:44 PM »

Not really. It's a very nice distro. More polished than most in fact.
I like YaST(2), but I am not really happy with some of their unique inventions, like that Windows-like "one click installer" and similar things. Also, managing repositories is ugly compared to Debian.

KDE is fine, but I prefer the "original" KDE without their "polish". smiley
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 01:54:14 PM »

Quote from: Linus Torvalds' Google+ blog:
I first spent weeks arguing on a bugzilla that the security policy of requiring the root password for changing the timezone and adding a new wireless network was moronic and wrong.

Laptops are for traveling users. Traveling users tend to cross time zones. e.g. the time zone needs to be user configurable. period. Security protocols like Kerberos run in GMT/UTC/Zulu, independent of the time zone ... so they couldn't care less what the user sets the time zone to.

It's a portable world, so WiFI has to be flexible/accessible. Seriously what is really more dangerous ... Letting an end luser connect to random WiFi networks ... Or giving them an administrative password to use (in emergencies...) on the road.

Remote support is useless if they ain't connected to something...

I gotta go with Linus on this one.
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 01:58:19 PM »

It is a very nice distro, has been my partner R's distro of choice since 97 or so (mine being slackware with occasional detours). I am sure there are ways to configure it so you dont have to give your daughter the root password for printing, but it is possible that by default the groups are not set up for it.

He's allowed to have a rant, because it'd be easy to fix on the opensuse team's part. And he's right, these things should not be in the same security class as proper system changes, because they are surface, cosmetic changes.

And now they will fix this methinks...

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Tuxman
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 02:03:17 PM »

Laptops are for traveling users.
No.
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 02:32:29 PM »


Really? So you wish to assert that road warriors primarily use desktops?? ...I'd love to see you get one through airport security.  cheesy
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 02:36:27 PM »


And now they will fix this methinks...


O...I think we can count on that... Grin Thmbsup

At the very lest, they'll give it some serious thought. That was Linus Torvalds who was ranting after all. And it's not like it's a fix so much as it's some default settings changes and a little massaging of user group assignments.

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Tuxman
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 02:38:05 PM »

Really? So you wish to assert that road warriors primarily use desktops?? ...I'd love to see you get one through airport security.  cheesy
More like the opposite: Traveling users use laptops, but laptops are not made for them. I don't travel much.
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 02:43:34 PM »

Really? So you wish to assert that road warriors primarily use desktops?? ...I'd love to see you get one through airport security.  cheesy
More like the opposite: Traveling users use laptops, but laptops are not made for them. I don't travel much.

*Sigh* Laptops are designed for portability, e.g. travel. Just because you wish to sit there with one (defeating the/its purpose) doesn't alter the original intent of the design.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »

So you designed them to know what they were designed for?
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2012, 02:47:03 PM »

Really? So you wish to assert that road warriors primarily use desktops?? ...I'd love to see you get one through airport security.  cheesy
More like the opposite: Traveling users use laptops, but laptops are not made for them. I don't travel much.

*Sigh* Laptops are designed for portability, e.g. travel. Just because you wish to sit there with one (defeating the/its purpose) doesn't alter the original intent of the design.

To which my GF would say: "Nuts."  Grin
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2012, 02:49:20 PM »

So you designed them to know what they were designed for?

Nope. I read all about it in the friggin manual...  cheesy
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