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Author Topic: Superboyac is throwing in the towel: I'm going to transition to Linux  (Read 26040 times)
Tuxman
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« Reply #125 on: April 29, 2012, 06:41:43 PM »

Which ones have you tried so far?

edit: LOL, just looked at the Zorin "OS" site. "Linux for Windows users".
Bazinga!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 06:48:02 PM by Tuxman » Logged

I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #126 on: April 29, 2012, 08:09:45 PM »

Bazinga all you want, I'm kinda offended at the LoLing.

Mint failed. Snow Linux Failed. TinyCore Failed. Legacy OS Failed. Galpon MiniNo I think worked but it looked funny. Upgrade to Ubuntu 12.04 regular (supposed to be LXDE) failed. None of them *booted*. Sorry. I won't deal with a package that doesn't *boot*.

So it became Zorin's LXDE sub-mod of Ubuntu's Mod of Debian.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #127 on: April 29, 2012, 08:12:26 PM »

Srsly, why do you want Linux if you call yourself a Windows user?

Anyway, you tried distributions I had never heard of, nice. Some are supposed to look funny, like Bodhi Linux. Wink

Ubuntu, however, is a fork, not a mod. Too much has changed from Debian, that's why Debian does not have massive driver failures. cheesy


edit: Oh dear, my spelling has died.
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #128 on: April 29, 2012, 08:19:48 PM »

Well, maybe my terms are up for grabs - what's the difference between a Fork and a Mod? So however you term it, I got one that works. Me-As-Typical-New-Linux-User just wants to get to a desktop screen.

If I had tried for Debian Raw I bet (out of time) that I still would have gotten stuck on something, that's why I went looking for something that had special support for older comps.

It turns out I am really strong on Apps, but in fact I don't do all that much at a raw OS level. Long Haul, I don't know if I can make it to Windows 9 - Win8 with Metro is looking really ugly, even worse than Vista.

"All I do" 50% of the time is play on the web and make folders and save notes and files. That's cake. Linux can handle that. So yes one of these years if I really got serious I'd buy a new comp for Linux. This is a test case for now.

The drive failure has to be a minimum spec for some chip that my 2007 machine doesn't have, and no amount of "purity" in Debian will fix that.

This at least gives me some context rather than just cowering in a corner racing the clock between Windows 9 and my comp dying before I have properly exported everything.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #129 on: April 29, 2012, 08:26:43 PM »

Well, maybe my terms are up for grabs - what's the difference between a Fork and a Mod?
A fork is developed independently of the code it was initially based on, while a mod is merged with it when it changes.
Ubuntu is not Debian anymore. Not nearly.

So however you term it, I got one that works. Me-As-Typical-New-Linux-User just wants to get to a desktop screen.
So why Linux then?

There is no "typical new Linux user", back in 1998 I started with SuSE Linux 6.0 (and was stuck to Windows-only for years after then), others start with Arch Linux or Slackware. What is "typical"?

Long Haul, I don't know if I can make it to Windows 9 - Win8 with Metro is looking really ugly, even worse than Vista.
Vista was fine, at least it was the last Windows version with a working task bar. I hope Microsoft will get back to the desktop market some day... Windows 8 SP1 or something.

"All I do" 50% of the time is play on the web and make folders and save notes and files. That's cake. Linux can handle that.
So can most other OSs.

So yes one of these years if I really got serious I'd buy a new comp for Linux. This is a test case for now.
I recently did that for my sister, ordered some Linux laptop for her (Fedora 16) and she's happy with it (after some days of "why can't I play my random MMORPGs here?"); but it was more because it was cheap. cheesy
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #130 on: April 29, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »


Heh "Typical" is a little vague, but let's try a weak definition.

I'm decent on Windows, and I do light helpdesk as part of my official job at work. So I'm clearly no Turbo-Newbie. Yet all the assumptions of Linux break my instincts, so I am a classic mid line Windows user trying Linux for basically the first time. I could have picked any of 5 cores, I tried OpenSuse last year, it was okay. This year I decided to try to stay as close to Debian as I could, but all the pure FSF principles lose out to just getting a working box, even if that means Non-Free Codecs.

I believe I am representative of a big untold group of users out there. Get me at least as far as a desktop with Flash and Sound, and I'll slowly learn the other stuff later.

In a sense there's only three OS's, Windows, Mac OS X, and the Linux Family. (I'm skipping the outliers.) So I don't care to get stuck in Mac vendor-lock, so the remaining Non-Windows choice is Linux. Also, I like their philosophies.

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Tuxman
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« Reply #131 on: April 29, 2012, 09:03:15 PM »

I'm decent on Windows, and I do light helpdesk as part of my official job at work. So I'm clearly no Turbo-Newbie. Yet all the assumptions of Linux break my instincts, so I am a classic mid line Windows user trying Linux for basically the first time. I could have picked any of 5 cores, I tried OpenSuse last year, it was okay. This year I decided to try to stay as close to Debian as I could, but all the pure FSF principles lose out to just getting a working box, even if that means Non-Free Codecs.
Debian has non-free repositories. IMO the FSF philosophy is one of the only reasonable reasons to switch to a "free" (Linux is only partially free) OS, but it's just me, probably. (Hey, a rhyme.)

"Experiences with one or two major Linux distributions" and "knowing Linux" is a bit different by the way...

I believe I am representative of a big untold group of users out there. Get me at least as far as a desktop with Flash and Sound, and I'll slowly learn the other stuff later.
Who still needs Flash? tongue

In a sense there's only three OS's, Windows, Mac OS X, and the Linux Family. (I'm skipping the outliers.)
Unix is an "outlier"? WTF?  huh
Kids of today...
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #132 on: April 29, 2012, 09:12:13 PM »

Flash - Hulu and Chat Rooms.

And yes, Unix itself is not a generic desktop solution. It's become a back-end item.

The main trick of the Non-Free respositories vs drivers is that I don't have to go looking for them (today). So I don't need to get all theoretical, if I need 7 drivers, by golly I need 7 drivers, and I'd rather have a distro include them. I know full well what "modest" limitations there are for them being non-free, but ya know, once you set up your box, it sits there.

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Tuxman
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« Reply #133 on: April 29, 2012, 09:17:14 PM »

Hulu does not yet have HTML5? Now that's ancient. tongue (OK, not quite serious.)

Quote
Unix itself is not a generic desktop solution.
Neither is Linux itself. Putting a desktop environment over it does not make it a desktop operating system yet. Not even if it is called Ubuntu and has funny code names. On my FreeBSD (virtual) machine, KDE runs (theoretically) fine, so how is Unix less of a desktop OS than Linux?

You see?

Quote
So I don't need to get all theoretical, if I need 7 drivers, by golly I need 7 drivers, and I'd rather have a distro include them.
How can they be included better than in its repositories?



edit: Can't sleep if I leave that typo in place.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 10:00:14 PM by Tuxman » Logged

I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #134 on: April 29, 2012, 09:35:41 PM »

Hulu does not yet have HTML5? Now that's ancient. tongue (OK, not quite serious.)
"Ancient is as Ancient does". Of course I know the theoretical arguments, but I want my TV-Online shows *today*, not in 2014 : )

Quote
Unix itself is not a generic desktop solution.

Neither is Linux itself. Putting a desktop environment over it does not make it a desktop operating system yet. Not even if it is called Ubuntu and has funny code names. On my FreeBSD (virtual) machine, KDE runs (theoretically) fine, so how is Unix less of a desktop OS that Linux?

You see?

Quote
So I don't need to get all theoretical, if I need 7 drivers, by golly I need 7 drivers, and I'd rather have a distro include them.
How can they be included better than in its repositories?

Okay, leaving aside Free-BSD, putting a desktop environment over Linux *almost* does make it a generic desktop operating system. Again as a "typical" user, (whatever that is) LXDE almost satisfies what I think a "desktop" should do, with a few quirks. The recent trend to Browser-Apps has reduced the load on OS'es.

As for the drivers, if they are included in the CD's, they "Just Work". I know, Linux advocates hate that, but sorry, for new users, that's how it is. If I can't even boot to a desktop, how the blazes will I diagnose which driver is missing and fire up a web browser that didn't load to go find it and somehow install it? That's why I am a good test case - I don't really ask for much, just get me a basically working system with sound and TV. Not that tough. Any CD that goes "will not load - invalid file system" is not something I need to deal with.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2012, 09:59:12 PM »

Okay, leaving aside Free-BSD, putting a desktop environment over Linux *almost* does make it a generic desktop operating system.
What is the difference then? Why do you consider Linux a generic desktop OS but BSD not?

As for the drivers, if they are included in the CD's, they "Just Work".
Wrong. Really, really wrong.
If they are included in the CDs, they are primarily outdated.

I know, Linux advocates hate that, but sorry, for new users, that's how it is.
No.
Best example from the real world: Dumbuntu. Try to upgrade it to a new version without failing any driver. Good luck.

If I can't even boot to a desktop, how the blazes will I diagnose which driver is missing and fire up a web browser that didn't load to go find it and somehow install it?
That's why Windows is the better desktop OS.

just get me a basically working system with sound and TV. Not that tough.
From a newbie user's POV, you might be right. Technically, this is horribly wrong.
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2012, 10:06:36 PM »


Well, let's agree to disagree! I'm done for the night on my project, and knowing me, likely for 3 months or more.

Every user has their cases, and I mostly filled mine.
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Tuxman
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« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2012, 10:08:32 PM »

There is no "agreeing" when it comes to things that are either true or false. tongue

Good night.
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
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« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2012, 02:14:34 AM »

Holy OS-Religion wars Batman, how about we let people be entitled to their opinion?
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« Reply #139 on: April 30, 2012, 08:32:36 AM »

Denied.  Cool
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
Tinman57
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« Reply #140 on: April 30, 2012, 07:49:20 PM »

  And as soon as Microsux stops supporting XP, I'll be right behind you..... Win 8 is a big joke, just like Vista was.  I want a PC to work with, not a metro device.....
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« Reply #141 on: April 30, 2012, 07:51:04 PM »

Why don't you wait for the release version before you make your final opinion?
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I bet when Cheetahs race and one of them cheats, the other one goes "Man, you're such a Cheetah!" and they laugh & eat a zebra or whatever.
- @VeryGrumpyCat
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #142 on: April 30, 2012, 08:43:24 PM »

  And as soon as Microsux stops supporting XP, I'll be right behind you..... Win 8 is a big joke, just like Vista was.  I want a PC to work with, not a metro device.....

Right behind me, looking for alternatives to Microsoft you mean? Hmm.

Meanwhile on the whole touch fad, I'm toying with the idea of laying my touch computer down flat on its back on my desk (if that doesn't have any evil side effects! I dunno!) Because then maybe I wouldn't need a mouse - just "tap with fingers" to open folders, etc. Only problem is it would fight the keyboard for primacy horozontal space, but it is an interesting idea.
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« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2012, 07:05:49 AM »

Only problem is it would fight the keyboard for primacy horozontal space, but it is an interesting idea.
HP has an option in that department. Some of their AIOs that normally sit up like a typical monitor, can also slide down to a tablet friendly input access angle.
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« Reply #144 on: May 01, 2012, 07:12:24 PM »

Why don't you wait for the release version before you make your final opinion?
 I'm just getting fed up with MS BS, especially their DRM.  And when they have problems with their DRM (so far with every version), your stuck like Chuck.  I've had Winblows DRM kick in for no reason at all and had to get permission from MS for my computer to work again.  With Winblows, if you change out your hard drive, or more than 4 components (I think), you have to get permission from MS (re-registration).  And don't even think about replacing your motherboard with a different MB, because you'll completely lose your license and have to re-buy it.
  Sorry, but that's pretty sorry.  I'm also fed up with MS looking at my system every time I boot up to make sure that I'm legal.  No telling how much information is being sent back to MS.
  And then there's the problem of having to buy yet another computer that will support Win 8.  This computer cost around $4000 when it was bought new, not to mention all of the upgrades I've done since then.  It's still faster than a greased turd on a slippy slide, why have to buy another computer?
  I may keep XP on my system with a dual boot, of course I'd have to disable the network side of it.  With all the software I own I would hate to have to just give it all up.  Plus I'd miss DonationCoder....   Grin
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 07:20:38 PM by Tinman57 » Logged

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Tinman57
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« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2012, 07:17:04 PM »

[/quote author=TaoPhoenix link=topic=30133.msg287185#msg287185 date=1335836604]
Quote

Right behind me, looking for alternatives to Microsoft you mean? Hmm.
Meanwhile on the whole touch fad, I'm toying with the idea of laying my touch computer down flat on its back on my desk (if that doesn't have any evil side effects! I dunno!) Because then maybe I wouldn't need a mouse - just "tap with fingers" to open folders, etc. Only problem is it would fight the keyboard for primacy horozontal space, but it is an interesting idea.

Geeze Tao, what did you think I was talking about? ohmy

Only problem with laying your monitor in the horizontal position is with the cat walking on it and messing things up.   cheesy
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 07:29:18 PM by Tinman57 » Logged

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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2012, 09:56:17 PM »

Geeze Tao, what did you think I was talking about? ohmy

Heh let's just say I'm as sharp as a marble, and cruise onward!  cheesy

Meanwhile, re: MS DRM, isn't there some kind of music/movie DRM in Vista and Windows 7? It was big news during Vista's first year, but I don't recall the details. Anyone know?
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« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2012, 10:57:23 PM »

And don't even think about replacing your motherboard with a different MB, because you'll completely lose your license and have to re-buy it.

Ummm... no?  I've used the same license of windows through several different computers, let alone just upgrading parts.

I may keep XP on my system with a dual boot, of course I'd have to disable the network side of it.

I don't get this statement.  MS discontinuing support just means that they won't support issues or deploy patches.  Unless there comes a very bad defect, I don't see why the network has anything to do with it?
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« Reply #148 on: May 02, 2012, 12:22:22 AM »


I'm confused. I thought the point of discontinuing support meant that there would be no patches?
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« Reply #149 on: May 02, 2012, 04:32:31 PM »

And don't even think about replacing your motherboard with a different MB, because you'll completely lose your license and have to re-buy it.

Ummm... no?  I've used the same license of windows through several different computers, let alone just upgrading parts.

I may keep XP on my system with a dual boot, of course I'd have to disable the network side of it.

I don't get this statement.  MS discontinuing support just means that they won't support issues or deploy patches.  Unless there comes a very bad defect, I don't see why the network has anything to do with it?

  Don't speak too loudly about that, because your using an illegal copy of Windows.... Don't beleive me, just read the EULA with the CD or on MS's web site....  In fact, I'm kind of surprised that you were even able to register it with the MS website, which is automatic, unless you ran one of the various hacks to bypass Windows DRM.

  Well lets see, if MS stops issuing security updates, then obviously XP won't stand a chance on the internet.  Therefore I'd have to disable the networking side of things to prevent someone from accessing XP over the internet...
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