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Author Topic: Superboyac is throwing in the towel: I'm going to transition to Linux  (Read 26472 times)
40hz
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« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2012, 10:29:57 PM »

For someone who doesn't want to argue you sure post a lot with multiple paragraphs.

Sorry. I was just trying to share. I'll try to be more careful next time about using multiple paragraphs when you're around. It's just the way I think - and write. I don't mean anything personal by it. (BTW, I hope you don't find parentheses equally annoying. I use a lot of those too when I post.)  Wink

As soon as I saw a Linux thread I knew it would degenerate to be honest.

Interesting...

Still, like the guy hoping the football would not be pulled away this time, I tried to give the OP the benefit of my experience.


"Sorry. But you just lost me here..."

Um...this isn't a competition. There's no ball. No score. No winners or losers. And nobody is trying to "pull" anything away from you that I can see. So I'm not sure where you're  coming from when you say something like that. But as far as offering the benefit of one's individual experience to the OP, well...that's exactly what everybody else is trying to do too, isn't it? So if I'm missing something here, please let me know ok?

(With apologies for using multiple paragraphs again.) smiley
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:43:34 AM by 40hz » Logged

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Innuendo
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« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2012, 10:09:01 AM »

Quote
@Miles - I don't want to get into a drawn out debate over the relative merits of one distro vs another.
For someone who doesn't want to argue you sure post a lot with multiple paragraphs. As soon as I saw a Linux thread I knew it would degenerate to be honest.  Still, like the guy hoping the football would not be pulled away this time, I tried to give the OP the benefit of my experience.

Miles, usually I follow your trains of logic easily, but you've stumped me in this case.

40hz's post, while wordy, struck me as a statement embodying the idea that one should fine what fits them best & that one shouldn't have any blind loyalty to any one distro. Perhaps you should re-read his post to make sure you didn't misread something.

This has been a very quiet, civilized thread. I'm proud of all the participants for keeping level heads while discussing a topic where level heads usually don't prevail.

All the footballs are still in plain sight & none have as of yet been pulled away, Mr. Brown. Wink
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Armando
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« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2012, 11:38:17 AM »

You probably thought about that but... if you're a busy person, "transitioning" to Linux (or any other OS : OS X, Windows) without very good reasons, isn't -- IMO -- a good idea. Of coure the "very good reasons" can be as simple as "fun and variety". But in any case your goals need to be clear as transitioning is NOT simple, easy and rapid -- at least for people like you (I don't know you that much, but you seem to be even pickier then me, which is rare Wink ).

Of  course, for my daughter, switching from windows to Linux was just a matter of selecting Linux in the boot menu. But all she does is searching Google, playing a few flash games and writing stuff in libre office !

So, my 2c :
- 1 or 2 y ago, after some exploration, I chose Mint to install on older laptop here.** Others here have mentioned Mint, it's a good choice, there are many other good choices depending on your goals. Context is important.
- Using a live CD or a spare computer are also good ideas in what seems to be your case. If you're a busy person, you don't want to be immobilized because things aren't working at all. I wouldn't go the VM route. It seems simple, but... it depends.  smiley


**Note that I've been a Linux user (almost exclusively) between 98 and 2000 I think (although the journey started in 1997). Things were a lot less smooth at the time with distros like Caldera, Mandrake, Suse and RedHat. When I look back at those 2 years, I see I had fun and learned many things. But I also see a gigantic time drain in which I could've been much more productive (and a better boyfriend, for that matter!), but was mainly obsessed with drivers, broken kernels, internet connection, file conversions, software testing, etc.

Things have changed a lot since then, but success depends roughly on 1- what one wants to do, when, with whom, etc. (i.e. : context related parameters), 2- the person's technical level.
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« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2012, 06:49:28 PM »

A timely article on Lifehacker: How to Find the Perfect Linux Distribution for You.
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superboyac
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« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2012, 08:47:33 PM »

**Note that I've been a Linux user (almost exclusively) between 98 and 2000 I think (although the journey started in 1997). Things were a lot less smooth at the time with distros like Caldera, Mandrake, Suse and RedHat. When I look back at those 2 years, I see I had fun and learned many things. But I also see a gigantic time drain in which I could've been much more productive (and a better boyfriend, for that matter!), but was mainly obsessed with drivers, broken kernels, internet connection, file conversions, software testing, etc.
Armando, you have somehow perfectly stated how I feel about the subject!!

I've been thinking about this more now, and if i had to nail down a single goal for my Linux experiment here, it's this:
I want to create my own cloud with no outside services.

it seems like Linux is the way to go at this point to try this.  All the normal commercial avenues are trying to push people into the cloud...including Microsoft.  Definitely Apple is.  So if I'm being honest, I think that is what this experiment is all about.  Linux, ownCloud.
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superboyac
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« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 08:50:52 PM »

Good article!
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« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2012, 09:45:39 PM »

I also have a wireless Brother HL-2270DW laser printer - I have to confess I haven't looked for that but it would need to work.

You can find Linux drivers for most Brother printers (including the HL-2270DW) here
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« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2012, 02:44:44 AM »

I'm going to bitch about Linux for a few days and go back to Windows (which I never really left).
FTFY
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superboyac
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« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2012, 03:00:29 AM »

I'm going to bitch about Linux for a few days and go back to Windows (which I never really left).
FTFY
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« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2012, 03:07:04 AM »

lol nm! I wish you luck... transitioning to Linux is something I've pondered about myself but it never seemed worth it. TBH, I'm curious to see where this goes, though the cynic in me already knows. smiley
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2012, 05:41:31 AM »

I also have a wireless Brother HL-2270DW laser printer - I have to confess I haven't looked for that but it would need to work.

You can find Linux drivers for most Brother printers (including the HL-2270DW) here

Thanks - now I just need to find something for the Canon!
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40hz
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« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2012, 07:49:31 AM »

In the end, I think the ultimate success of a project like this is dependent on two factors

1. Just how much and where you'll need to maintain a presence in the Windows landscape.

Simple truth is that transitioning to Linux is not purely a philosophical or political decision. There are practicalities to consider because available technology is also a key factor. If there's something that's Windows-only, you're always going to need to maintain a presence in Bill Gate's world. Same goes if you need to interface with other people who are exclusively Windows-based users. We are not islands.

If I only had to deal with my own requirements, I could easily move 98% of my computing and online life to Linux and not even blink. What little Windows I'd need to keep would be purely because there will always be apps (that will only run on Windows - or very inefficiently under emulation) I'd be reluctant to live without.

But because I have friends/family who look to me for tech advice and support - and a business that needs to interface with a much larger world - my actual day-to-day split is closer to 60% Nix to 40% Windows. (This ratio varies. But even under "ideal" circumstances, Windows always seems to require at least 15% of my computing space.)

So what does this mean? Simple. When I'm doing my "own thing" I'm almost always doing it exclusively under Linux. When I'm doing everything else, I'm at least 75% Windows no matter what.

I've since learned not to worry about it too much. I'm not into the politics. All I ask is that my personal systems "do" for me the way I want things done. As long as I've got my personal productivity space working that way, I'm happy.

2. The degree of sheer bloodymindeness you're willing to bring to the table.

Almost anything can be made to work with a sufficient investment of creativity, time, and hammer bashing. The real question is how much of that is worth it.

I don't know of any hard and fast rule for dealing with that. Once in a while I'll get my nose out of joint about not being able to do something. I'll then invest a ridiculous amount of effort into getting around it. But I've noticed it happens less and less often of late. Maybe it has something to do with me mellowing out a bit. Most likely it's more to do with me maintaining a dual-boot machine as my main desktop. Wink

Hear ye the words of a great sage:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it."
  --  W.C. Fields


 Cool
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 12:11:00 PM by 40hz » Logged

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xtabber
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« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2012, 09:05:15 AM »

I also have a wireless Brother HL-2270DW laser printer - I have to confess I haven't looked for that but it would need to work.

You can find Linux drivers for most Brother printers (including the HL-2270DW) here

Thanks - now I just need to find something for the Canon!

Turboprint sells a printer driver utility for Linux that claims to support most Canon printers, as well as HP, Epson and Brother.

You may be able to find other, possibly free, alternatives here
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2012, 10:49:34 AM »

Turboprint[/url] sells a printer driver utility for Linux that claims to support most Canon printers, as well as HP, Epson and Brother.

Yes I tried Turbo print on my last Linux outing - wasn't that impressed. OK it worked, but the output quality was crap and it only supported printing not multifunctionals.

I love the way the compatibility page points people to two Canon websites - one in Japanese that when you translate it is a 404 error and the other is the standard Canon download site - Canon don't (AFAIK) produce any Linux drivers - so why send people there looking for Linux drivers?

Sadly that compatibility page still reflects my experiences of every time I have tried Linux - the best I can hope for is a crappy piece of software that I have to purchase to get substandard printout or use a basic BubbleJet emulator - both of which mean I lose almost all none basic print functionality.
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40hz
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« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2012, 12:22:11 PM »

Sadly that compatibility page still reflects my experiences of every time I have tried Linux - the best I can hope for is a crappy piece of software that I have to purchase to get substandard printout or use a basic BubbleJet emulator - both of which mean I lose almost all none basic print functionality.

Might be easier to throw in the towel on that Canon and get a printer that either uses PS/PCL - or has all its "smarts" running on the printer rather than on the host computer just to be done with it.

I find I'm having less and less patience with trying to get something not designed or ever intended to be used with anything other than Windows to work. Especially if it turns into too much of a hassle.



But it's not Linux's fault it won't work. Nor is it the manufacturers. Because they did say it was for Windows with no mention anywhere of Linux support. If we get burned on that, it's our own hubris to blame. (Linux does encourage us to believe we can do anything.)

Where I do get annoyed is when something originally did have Linux support, but dropped it later. HP used to be pretty good at doing that.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 12:38:42 PM by 40hz » Logged

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2012, 06:26:07 PM »

Very few printer manufacturers actively support Linux - and then only a small selection of distros.

I can understand why manufacturers go for Windows and Mac only because that is where the market is.

Trouble with ditching my printer to use Linux is that I actually like Canon printers - for me they just work, and they work well. Other manufacturers (HP and Epson) produce noisy and temperamental printers and drivers at best, Bother produce Linux drivers and I like their laser printers but I haven't had a good experience of their inkjets.
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« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2012, 07:18:48 PM »

Canon is the best inkjet printer manufacturer, IMHO, so I don't blame you for wanting to keep using them, Carol. They design their printers with a one-color-per-cartridge philosophy so they are much more economical to run than their competitors' models.
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« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2012, 07:22:54 PM »

Canon has a 1 color per cartridge philosophy? My MP490 takes 2 cartridges....one black, one color....
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« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2012, 08:38:50 PM »

that's good advice, 40...instead of finding old drivers or something, I'd rather just get something that works. With my time and energy at this point, I can't afford to salvage everything like I like to do.
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« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2012, 11:42:53 PM »

Canon has a 1 color per cartridge philosophy? My MP490 takes 2 cartridges....one black, one color....

Perhaps I should have said Canon has that philosophy on their mid to high-end printers.
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superboyac
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« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2012, 12:01:30 AM »

Well, this is my first post from my laptop with Linux Mint running!  Thmbsup

So far so good.  Super easy installation.  Everything about it is kind of very slick.  It feels like a traditional Windows interface with hints of the Mac style.  It's very responsive.  As responsive as anything I've seen in windows, and definitely way better than a mac.  I really like everything about it, to be honest. 

Now, first thing to check out...how to tweak my circular mousepad settings (I'm using a Toughbook).  Also, my network wifi connection is really flaky...do I need drivers?  This is where I start getting scared...
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« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2012, 12:09:28 AM »

  Also, my network wifi connection is really flaky...do I need drivers?  This is where I start getting scared...

... And this is where the fun begins.  tongue
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« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2012, 12:11:31 AM »

Seriously... Ubuntu and Mint forums could be useful to you.
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« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2012, 01:42:11 AM »

Also, my network wifi connection is really flaky...do I need drivers?

If you've just installed, run an update. Odds are pretty good there's updates available. If there are, half the time whatever you're running into will be fixed by one of them. Mint's good about that.

Next, can you be a little more specific as to what constitutes "flaky"? Connections dropping? Slow speeds? Trouble authenticating or getting DHCP address from router. etc..

Also do you know make/model of the wifi card in the laptop. You'll need that info. Ideally the manufacturer's website can tell you that so there's no guessing. If not, you can probe, but all that will tell you is what Mint thinks it is. If it's misidentified the card, that could cause problems.

Toughbooks also have some weird implementations of power management because there's no fan IIRC. (Magnesium case is supposed to be a big heat sink right?) Check the power management settings. For laptop wifi it's usually better to switch off the wifi card when you don't need it rather than have smart  power management try to guess when it's not needed. That can also make the wifi NIC appear to be flaky.
 smiley

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 01:52:46 AM by 40hz » Logged

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2012, 09:14:30 AM »

Canon has a 1 color per cartridge philosophy? My MP490 takes 2 cartridges....one black, one color....

That is because you are a cheapskate - the cheapo models use two cartridges and then they screw the money out of you for ink.

I always buy higher spec Canon models which use 4, 5 or 6 cartridges - which have no electronics.
For me it isn't just that they are cheaper to run (still not cheap though) - they are quiet and reliable and I find the drivers a less obtrusive and just work. Also they aren't full of promotional material and advertising unlike other mainstream manufacturers.

Compare to HP where driver packages are massive and are (at best) flaky on most models I have come across - requiring regular (and very time consuming removal and re-install .... never try their update system unless you like blue screens).

Epson drivers look like they were written in the 70s and whilst they do work are often not intuitive and lack many features (or hide them in obscure places).

Bother inkjets look like they were built in the 70s and always seem to have obvious features missing (eg. one client of mine had a business inkjet/fax machine - but the drivers did not support sending a fax from a PC - you had to do it manually at the printer).

Lexmark are ... well Lexmark. Junk printers, crappy, flaky drivers and ridiculously expensive consumables (and shame on Dell for rebadging them and selling them as Dell machines).

Having said all that at least Brother actually provide Linux drivers - I don't think any of the others do.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 09:20:11 AM by Carol Haynes » Logged

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